achildr1

I've heard he's one of the most underrated players in hockey a couple times. If all of the above is true, getting him for $5m a season is fantastic.

That's what's scary though...if he scores 30, Kenny will give him $6m for 5 years.

For Real...Alfie was a great signing.

Honestly, this deal was great and it's hard to complain. I don't know anything about the kid we just picked but Chychrun seemed like the guy that could have reshaped the future of our defense. Maybe Holland thinks super highly of the kid we just picked but I cant help but think of what the Wings would look like in three years with a "Scott Stevens type" on our back end.

Case in point, in reference to my inability to be swayed (sarcasm)...
I forgot about Holland holding the Director of Amateur Scouting position at that time...which is certainly impressive.
Even since Holland has been making bad trades...they have done a masterful job of rebuilding through scouting/draft. My point was (although i can see where i did a bad job of getting it across) was that we can't say with must accuracy that we can credit Holland for that. There are so many moving pieces with scouting/drafting...but there isn't nearly as much in trading.
Obviously that isn't the same situation. I understand your logic, but your trainee wasn't Steve Yzerman. Your boss wasn't Ilitch and you aren't making a truckload of money to run a sports team.

I appreciate your response. Thanks for being decent...and I only said "thanks for playing" because i was clearly being called out and disrespected before hand. I felt like the person i quoted was being unneccessarily instigating.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/05/red_wings_owner_mike_ilitch_gm.html
"Stevie Y wants to become a GM; we'd love to have him as a GM,'' Ilitch said. "I keep telling Kenny, 'Hey, I want to move you up to president.' He goes, 'I don't want to be a president, I want to be a GM.' So he's going to stay there as GM.''
Holland made it clear he is happy at his current post, which he has held since 1997.
"I'm the general manager, I don't have any interest in becoming president,'' Holland said. "I'm a general manager, that's what I was hired to do.''
Thanks for the attitude.

You guys are fascinating today...i didn't call you or anyone other than that kid into question. I respect a lot of the people that post here because they post rational, fact based, respectful responses...I just thought his response ("....just because the vibes Holland gives off tell you that he's a crappy gm") was not accurate and was not what i said. But please go back two needlessly making me into "that guy"

How old are you? May I ask? I turn 29 this month and I've followed the Wings religiously my entire life from age 8. For some reason i actually retain most of the generally useless history, info, players, trades, and dialogue I've heard along the way. I've followed the Wings for the entirety of Holland's tenure as GM and I have a particular addiction to information I've come across about NHL front offices. I like to think, as a fan, I'm about as informed as I can be enough to make the claims I do.
Holland has done a lot of things right in his time with the Wings, but he also had an All-Star cast of Front Office support along the way...not limited to Dellevano, Scotty Bowman (who I believe brought way more than people even thought...and they thought he brought a lot), Nill, Mark Howe, and several others. But since those people have started moving on, his ability to make good trades has nose dived. If Babcock creates good coaches, I believe Holland was created by other good front office people. HE does not seem to be a great stand alone GM. The two things that he is most credited for are also other peoples jobs (cap management and scouting).
This is far more than vibes bro, but thanks for playing.

If I was in New Jersey I would waive my ntc to literally go to any playoff bound team

Yep, we've got our two 35+ year olds. We're good.

God all these conditions are crazy.

More evidence that Holland has lost it.
Petry was just traded for a 2nd and a conditional 5th to the Habs.
The type of player they were hoping to get, a basic upgrade on Alexi
Holland gives up two, players that could have at least added depth or grown in trade value AND a second for a player 10 years older who is arguably as good as Cleary when you have decent depth to begin with...
Not saying it was a damaging trade... it just is another example where another team is able to get more for less.

Case in point, in reference to my inability to be swayed (sarcasm)...
I forgot about Holland holding the Director of Amateur Scouting position at that time...which is certainly impressive.
Even since Holland has been making bad trades...they have done a masterful job of rebuilding through scouting/draft. My point was (although i can see where i did a bad job of getting it across) was that we can't say with must accuracy that we can credit Holland for that. There are so many moving pieces with scouting/drafting...but there isn't nearly as much in trading.
Obviously that isn't the same situation. I understand your logic, but your trainee wasn't Steve Yzerman. Your boss wasn't Ilitch and you aren't making a truckload of money to run a sports team.

I appreciate your response. Thanks for being decent...and I only said "thanks for playing" because i was clearly being called out and disrespected before hand. I felt like the person i quoted was being unneccessarily instigating.

Ha! Exactly!
It's so awesome that we let Shanahan, Yzerman, and Nill walk and have Holland and Ryan Martin now. Anybody ever seen Holland and Martin in person? Especially Martin. Oh...I love Fischer, but he does not seem like a guy that should end up in the front office.
Holland and Martin both seem like huge pushovers, with Martin looking like and giving the vibe that he's never played hockey (although he may have) and has no clue what he's talking about. Nill, Yzerman, and Shanahan all have experience and the "i run the ship" look and personas. Im still pissed about how Ilitch asked Holland to step up and let Yzerman in and he wouldn't...YZerman should have been the face of this franchise and I'm sure Holland still would have had his prospect-giving-away hands all over everything anyway...

Im starting to feel better about the trade but I hate when its said that because someone is a long shot, its ok that we used them to over pay. Backman was still a pretty well regarded prospect. I bet Nill thinks very highly of him...and probably Janmark too. I bet Poile is thrilled with Jarnkrok...another player that was supposedly "blocked"...and somehow therefore not worth getting back true value for.

Tatar had a good rookie year. But he's still unproven so I'm not sure why people think he should get his payday now. He'll get a prove it contract and that's what's best for both sides.
As far as people comparing Tats and Pavs rookie years, it honestly means nothing. Peter Mueller had a comparable rookie year to Anze Kopitar, who both had had better years than Patrice Bergeron, and they all had worse years than Dany Heatley. Now two of them are scrubs and 2 are elite forwards. I'm glad Tatar had a good rookie year, now he has to prove he can continue to do that and improve.

That was so aweful...makes Ozzy and Draper look like Daniel-Day Lewis clones. I seriously cant stand Kane in any sense...such a serious wiener.

I personally believe Nyquist will be a 60 point guy before long...add in Pulkkinen and and a 1st, no thanks.

EXACTLY!!!!!

You had to have been watching a different planets deadline day(s) (including yesterday) ...a first and Jarnkrok could very well been the ground work to get a much better player than Legwand.

If we just traded Jarnkrok for a 33 year old, pending UFA, older Weiss clone...Holland needs to step down. He could have had any other of the better guys for basically the same price. Pathetic.

Yep...exactly. Jarnkrok is a peice I bet Vancouver would looked at a big part of a Edler deal.

Thanks for giving me more fuel btw...take Collberg and compare him to Jarnkrok in the SEL at the same age. It makes our trade even worse.