College Football

[gowingsgo 3]

Some would say it shouldnt be allowed, but if the positions were reversed, I might be inclined to think we should get a chance.

I dont know...Michigan, to me, is the second best team. But they had their chance Saturday and lost. If there's a rematch, what's the point of the first meeting...it would count for nothing. And #1 vs #2 victory in the biggest rivalry in college sports shouldn't count for nothing.

Besides that, we already won this year's Game....I'm satisfied, I dont want to give you guys another shot at it because we never got second chances before. But I would like to see someone get a good shot on Mike Hart....I didnt care for his post game remarks.

Rematches are NOT unprecedented. Oklahoma has lost the Big 12 title game and still played for a BCS title. I think Florida State has also played for a BCS title where they lost the last game. If the BCS is setup to put the two best teams playing for the title, then it has to be a rematch. I don't care what everyone else says, Michigan-Ohio State is the biggest money game out there. I think Michigan wins on a better field in round 2.

Edited November 20, 2006 by gowingsgo

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Well according to the BCS expert on Mike and Mike Radio this morning he said that if ND beats USC Michigan will get the rematch, with Florida being a possible "wild card". Said ARK doesn't really have a chance because of schedule, and FLA would still be behind U-M because Michigans schedule would be tougher b/c ND beats USC.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Very good point. Only problem I have if that scenario plays out is that USC would have won its conference will Michigan didn't win anything. Plus if Florida or Arkansas end up with 1 loss at the end, how can you deny them after they won a very difficult SEC in favor of a 2nd place conference team.

Conference winning doesn't factor that much into the BCS - especially when the top two teams are in the same conference, ony one will win. Plus the Pac ten sucks, Michigan would win that conference. As far as Fla and Ark, they are ranked #4-5, I don't see any way they could jump up to number 2. That's one of the problems with the BCS, you are kind of stigma'd with your initial ranking - and leapfrogging teams in front of you with the same record is almost impossible. Arkansas got smoked by USC by the way.

We all know that you don't like Michigan, so you are trying to make a case for any other team to be #2. I have already said I don't think there should be a rematch - but I also don't think Michigan should get demoted just because of that. Once again this year, BCS is BS.

[timothy1997 0]

Conference winning doesn't factor that much into the BCS - especially when the top two teams are in the same conference, ony one will win. Plus the Pac ten sucks, Michigan would win that conference. As far as Fla and Ark, they are ranked #4-5, I don't see any way they could jump up to number 2. That's one of the problems with the BCS, you are kind of stigma'd with your initial ranking - and leapfrogging teams in front of you with the same record is almost impossible. Arkansas got smoked by USC by the way.

We all know that you don't like Michigan, so you are trying to make a case for any other team to be #2. I have already said I don't think there should be a rematch - but I also don't think Michigan should get demoted just because of that. Once again this year, BCS is BS.

What I don't want is for Michigan to beat Ohio State on Jan 8th. Then who the hell is National Champions. Under that scenario, Ohio State can claim a share of the title and Michigan would have a tranished championship.

Here is a scenario that would favor a Michigan-Ohio State rematch.

USC beats Notre Dame, loses to UCLA.

Arkansas loses to LSU, beats Florida.

Hard to argue any other team deserving to be #2.

oh BTW, Michigan is going to run the table next year. They will go undefeated, beat Ohio State and win the National Championship. Senior year for Hart and Henne ...and Manningham will be tough to stop. Michigan in 2007!!

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

What I don't want is for Michigan to beat Ohio State on Jan 8th. Then who the hell is National Champions. Under that scenario, Ohio State can claim a share of the title and Michigan would have a tranished championship.

I totally agree with this - which is another reason they won't play a rematch. The BCS will not wind up with a clear champion. But also imagine if USC beats OSU (not going to happen), then every team has one loss. Michigan could claim a share of the title IF they win their bowl game, as could every other one loss team (happened to USC in '04).

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

What I don't want is for Michigan to beat Ohio State on Jan 8th. Then who the hell is National Champions. Under that scenario, Ohio State can claim a share of the title and Michigan would have a tranished championship.

I agree with you thats exactly what I'm thinking too, but as a U-M fan I'm not going to complain if it happens. I think only way it doesn't happen is if USC wins out. I feel bad for OSU fans if we play again. I would HATE it if we won saturday only to play them again. This is BCS craziness at its best

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Rumor has it that MSU is going to hire the Browns DC, Grantlom by the end of the week. Thank you its not Harabaugh or English

[Lou_Siffer 1]

USC's loss was to Oregon State, an unranked team. Michigan lost to the #1 team, in what was a close game in the end. If USC beats ND, both teams would have beaten them, and Michigan would have done it on the road. Don't get me wrong, I think USC is a very good team - worthy of their #3 ranking. It's just hard to say they're better than Michigan when you add things up.

Ok, yes the final score was close and it was a good game...but it wasnt exactly a see saw battle to the end.

When I add things up, i believe the wins of USC, and either Arkansas or Florida to be better than those of Michigan. Now this is all hypothetically speaking...Arkansas could lose to LSU and hell you never know maybe Florida St decides to show up. But for the sake of argument lets say they win these games.

5 BEST WINS FOR MICHIGAN

At Notre Dame

Wisconsin (who have they beaten again??)

At Penn St (a team that got thrashed by ND remember..NOWHERE near last years team)

At Minnesota

Iowa

Are you guys really gonna tell me that aside from the Notre Dame win this are good wins? After Ohio St and Michigan the Big 10 stunk. Now lets compare USC:

5 BEST WINS FOR USC:

At Arkansas

Notre Dame (remember, this is hypothetical)

Cal (killed Minnesota)

At UCLA

Nebraska

Compare these wins to Michigan's now. You cant tell me UM's are better!

5 BEST WINS FOR ARKANSAS

Florida (once again...hypothetical)

At Auburn

Tennessee

LSU

At South Carolina

Now if Arkansas wins out, anyone who tries to still debate Michigan as #2 is either a massive homer or im sorry... just doenst know anything! These wins would be so much better than UM's its not even debatable. LSU is gonna be a real tough game though, i could see them dropping that looking ahead..

5 BEST WINS FOR FLORIDA

Arkansas (you know the drill by now...)

At Tennessee

LSU

Georgia

At FSU

Not as strong as Arkansas but as a whole still better than Michigan.

Ok so right now...where the heck is the debate at? Look at the facts. Now, if these 3 teams all lose again then i'll be all ears! But if any one of them finishes with 1 loss...its a no brainer! There you have it!

Well according to the BCS expert on Mike and Mike Radio this morning he said that if ND beats USC Michigan will get the rematch, with Florida being a possible "wild card". Said ARK doesn't really have a chance because of schedule, and FLA would still be behind U-M because Michigans schedule would be tougher b/c ND beats USC.

I believe ive illustrated that Arkansas will have proven more than any of the teams, but if its between them, Michigan, and USC...the Trojans get it becuase of their win of Ark. This notion of them having a weak schedule is outlandish!

Edited November 20, 2006 by Lou_Siffer

[BlakChamber 8]

Rumor has it that MSU is going to hire the Browns DC, Grantlom by the end of the week. Thank you its not Harabaugh or English

I refuse to believe any rumor until the actually signing is announced. I've heard from, from people who are in places to know things, that first MSU hired Kelly and were going to announce it after the Central/Western game. Then I got told by a friend at one of the Detroit papers that it was LSU's defensive coordinator.

I never thought that English was coming to MSU.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Ok, yes the final score was close and it was a good game...but it wasnt exactly a see saw battle to the end.

It is what it is, final score says 3 points. I've heard Buckeye fans say, well if you don't count the pts on turnovers, it wasn't close. Well if you aren't going to count the turnover pts, then we can choose not to count the 2 missed tackled run touchdowns, etc etc.

Now if Arkansas wins out, anyone who tries to still debate Michigan as #2 is either a massive homer or im sorry... just doenst know anything! These wins would be so much better than UM's its not even debatable. LSU is gonna be a real tough game though, i could see them dropping that looking ahead.

Arkansas got thrashed by USC. UM didn't get thrashed by anyone.

Ok so right now...where the heck is the debate at? Look at the facts. Now, if these 3 teams all lose again then i'll be all ears! But if any one of them finishes with 1 loss...its a no brainer!

The "no brainer" is just your opinion. If Fla and Ark schedules were so tough, they WOULD be in the #2 spot. And I have alot of respect for the SEC - I personally think Florida is a huge fraud - they're lucky the Gamecocks choked on their FG. I'll somewhat agree with you on the Big ten being weak - it is (so is the Pac-10 btw). The Wisconsin win is legit - they are a top 10 team like it or not - they are no more frauds than all those teams from the Big East that would get thrashed by any of the above teams (Fla, Ark, UM, OSU, USC).

but if its between them, Michigan, and USC...the Trojans get it becuase of their win of Ark. This notion of them having a weak schedule is outlandish!

Who said they have a weak schedule? I said above, I wouldn't have a problem with USC-OSU. It's a game I'd like to see. I would have problem with ND for obvious reasons (it could happen - the BCS would love it). If the BCS doesn't want teams from the same conference playing each other in the NC game - no problem - but they need to make a rule and stick to it. It happens all the time in the conference championships - which is why the Big 10 should never have one - it would mean (often) a rematch of UM-OSU a week after they just played, or 2 other Big ten teams that already played - worthless!

I personally would like to see Michigan go to the Rose Bowl and win big for once. We seem to be cursed there. I think that win is more important for Carr than last weekend's game was, imo. If that happens, I think they could be assured of winding up #2. I 'd be satisfied with OSU and UM taking the final #1-2 for the Big Ten.

I refuse to believe any rumor until the actually signing is announced. I've heard from, from people who are in places to know things, that first MSU hired Kelly and were going to announce it after the Central/Western game. Then I got told by a friend at one of the Detroit papers that it was LSU's defensive coordinator.

I never thought that English was coming to MSU.

Did you hear the Tom Izzo for MSU football coach rumor today? It was discussed quite heavily on the radio - yes seems ridiculous, but it got legit airtime!

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

I heard about the Izzo rumor too. He would disipline them good, but idk about him coaching. He would also hurt the b-ball program which wouldn't be good for MSU. Like Chamber said I also heard the Kelly, and Pelino (LSU coordinator) so I guess I don't believe it as well. I guess well see, b/c I heard I MSU will hire by the end of the week.

Edited November 21, 2006 by mannysBETTER3434

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

New Big House aproved. Should be doen in 09'

http://www.umich.edu/stadium/project-descr...on/designs.html

[eva unit zero 271]

Let's look at losses:

Michigan: #1 Ohio State

USC: NR Oregon State, possibly #5 Notre Dame

Arkansas: #3 USC

Notre Dame: #2 Michigan, possibly #3 USC

Florida: Auburn (who lost to Arkansas)

USC is the only team with a chance to remove Michigan--and to do that, they have to win two more games, one of them against Notre Dame, who Michigan destroyed and yet is now a top-five team again.

[BlakChamber 8]

I heard about the Izzo rumor too. He would disipline them good, but idk about him coaching. He would also hurt the b-ball program which wouldn't be good for MSU. Like Chamber said I also heard the Kelly, and Pelino (LSU coordinator) so I guess I don't believe it as well. I guess well see, b/c I heard I MSU will hire by the end of the week.

I don't think Izzo leaving would hurt the hoops program as much as one might think. There's a guy, I forget his name that Izzo has basically been grooming as his successor for a while now. He's also supposed to be very knowledgable about football, he'd probably do better than people would think.

But, in today's State News, he said he's not ready to give up the basketball job, he's got some unfinished business, as he put it.

[eva unit zero 271]

I've changed your analysis to see just which wins were against current top ten teams, and which potential wins could be.

BEST WINS FOR MICHIGAN

At Notre Dame (a top five team)

Wisconsin

BEST WINS FOR USC:

At Arkansas

Potentially Notre Dame (currently a top five team)

BEST WINS FOR ARKANSAS

Potentially Florida

Potentially LSU

BEST WINS FOR FLORIDA

Potentially Arkansas

LSU

If Arkansas loses to LSU and then beats Florida, we'll have no one-loss teams in the SEC. Tommy Tuberville would contend that Auburn should be in the title game at that point, but we all know reality: A team whose only loss came to the unanimous number one is better than any two-loss team. If Notre Dame were also to win their game with USC, Michigan's place in the title game would be indisputable. Michigan is the only team right now that has beaten TWO top ten teams.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

It is what it is, final score says 3 points.

The last TD drive was just window dressing--no way does Michigan recover the onside kick. You still have to try, but probability that you get the ball back ranges somewhere from 'never' to 'not happening.'

[betterREDthandead 58]

The last TD drive was just window dressing--no way does Michigan recover the onside kick. You still have to try, but probability that you get the ball back ranges somewhere from 'never' to 'not happening.'

Don't forget though, the onside kick happened with enough time left that if Michigan had gotten the stop, they'd have had about 40 seconds of play left. OSU needed that first down. Sadly, they got it.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Don't forget though, the onside kick happened with enough time left that if Michigan had gotten the stop, they'd have had about 40 seconds of play left. OSU needed that first down. Sadly, they got it.

True. But given Michigan's success at stopping Ohio from doing anything up to that point... the deal was pretty much sealed; the Wolverines didn't really threaten after Robiske's touchdown catch.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

True. But given Michigan's success at stopping Ohio from doing anything up to that point... the deal was pretty much sealed; the Wolverines didn't really threaten after Robiske's touchdown catch.

Yeah they did. They changed their D causing offensive turn overs. Heck, if U-M would have squeked that win out Quinn may have walked away with his heisman.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yeah they did. They changed their D causing offensive turn overs. Heck, if U-M would have squeked that win out Quinn may have walked away with his heisman.

I was talking about Robiske's catch with five minutes to go in the fourth quarter. They were able to put together a good drive and score, but by then there just wasn't enough time left.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

It is what it is, final score says 3 points. I've heard Buckeye fans say, well if you don't count the pts on turnovers, it wasn't close. Well if you aren't going to count the turnover pts, then we can choose not to count the 2 missed tackled run touchdowns, etc etc.

Arkansas got thrashed by USC. UM didn't get thrashed by anyone.

We see it all the time where teams holding a multiple score lead start playing soft on D very late in the 4th and the other team scores. I believe theres a difference in a 3pt loss of a team who battles back and forth to the end and one who loses by 3 and was trailing from the first quarter on. Im not trying to kick dirt on Michigans effort, but im just saying the whole "we only lost by 3!!!!" thing is a little deceiving. Arkansas' loss to USC was their first game of the year, yes they got routed and it was bad but im willing to show more leeway because of that. They are a team who's at their peak right now. The standings still show each team with only 1 loss, and if Arkansas wins out they will have actually WON a Conference title and defeated better teams than Michigan. We're talking about denying other teams a chance in favor of granting a rematch, dont you believe theyre should be a clear cut far and away case to be made for that to happen? Like "wow Michigan is so much better and has accomplished much more than these other 1 loss teams". I certainly dont see it. Michigan HAD their chance and lost, next year they get the Buckeyes at the Big House...go undefeated again and take another shot. Thats just the way it is...

The "no brainer" is just your opinion. If Fla and Ark schedules were so tough, they WOULD be in the #2 spot. And I have alot of respect for the SEC - I personally think Florida is a huge fraud - they're lucky the Gamecocks choked on their FG. I'll somewhat agree with you on the Big ten being weak - it is (so is the Pac-10 btw). The Wisconsin win is legit - they are a top 10 team like it or not - they are no more frauds than all those teams from the Big East that would get thrashed by any of the above teams (Fla, Ark, UM, OSU, USC).

If either Florida or Arkansas win out, im hoping the pollsters will bump them up. Certainly theyll go up in the computer ratings, especially Arkansas would. They still have 2 big potential wins sitting on the table for them. Florida also still has potential to go up with the SEC title left.

Who said they have a weak schedule? I said above, I wouldn't have a problem with USC-OSU. It's a game I'd like to see. I would have problem with ND for obvious reasons (it could happen - the BCS would love it). If the BCS doesn't want teams from the same conference playing each other in the NC game - no problem - but they need to make a rule and stick to it. It happens all the time in the conference championships - which is why the Big 10 should never have one - it would mean (often) a rematch of UM-OSU a week after they just played, or 2 other Big ten teams that already played - worthless!

The weak schedule part was directed at another poster, i didnt quote you on that. Im sure if the Big 10 did split into 2 seperate divisions, OSU and UM would be paired in the same one....like Auburn and Alabama for instance. MSU/Mich would be in the same as well. That insures they only play each other no more than once. They would have to throw Wisconsin, Penn St, and Iowa in the other division to at least attempt an effort at balancing it out. They dont have the depth of good teams like the SEC but i actually wouldnt mind seeing it. Of course first they'd have to do something about the odd number of teams...unless they just threw 6 in one of them.

I've changed your analysis to see just which wins were against current top ten teams, and which potential wins could be.

If Arkansas loses to LSU and then beats Florida, we'll have no one-loss teams in the SEC. Tommy Tuberville would contend that Auburn should be in the title game at that point, but we all know reality: A team whose only loss came to the unanimous number one is better than any two-loss team. If Notre Dame were also to win their game with USC, Michigan's place in the title game would be indisputable. Michigan is the only team right now that has beaten TWO top ten teams.

Im not sure what you're getting at, but never did i say that i'd choose a 2 loss team over Michigan. Yeah and if USC beats ND, theyll probably drop out of the top 10. So then Michigan will just be left with a Wisconsin team who scheduled nothing but complete patsies. Thats a top 10 win with an asterisk in my eyes because we have no idea if this team is any good!

Edited November 21, 2006 by Lou_Siffer

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

It's been awhile since the game finished, and I dont really care who we play...we'll beat anyone.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Who cares if ARK won a conference? U-M would too if they were in any other confernce. There is no BCS rule stating you must win your conference. It's about schedule, and if ND beats USC it gives U-M a better schedule then FLA/ARK.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Time to derail the rematch talk for a bit. Getting tiresome. Here's a question I've kind of been bouncing around in my head all season: If the Big Ten were to expand to 12, and Notre Dame was totally out of the question, what school would be ideal? Some of the usual candidates:

West Virginia

Iowa State

Missouri

The last two are Big 12 schools and as such, would be fantastically difficult to pry away. West Virginia is the crown jewel of the Big East, having lost Miami, VT, and BC. So they'd be hard too. My choice would be none other than Miami of Ohio. Because of their Bo-Woody ties, they're forever linked to the Big Ten in some small way. They almost always play a Big Ten team every year. And they're the one MAC school with any football tradition. They'd jump at the chance to join the Big Ten, and the MAC couldn't really say no. They had an awful year this year, but with Northwestern and Illinois still running around, it's not like they'd suddenly be the dregs. Plus, I think it'd have an effect on them similar to what happened when Virginia Tech joined the ACC. Tech is now a school to reckon with in basketball, in just their third ACC season, where before they were a doormat.

[eva unit zero 271]

Who cares if ARK won a conference? U-M would too if they were in any other confernce. There is no BCS rule stating you must win your conference. It's about schedule, and if ND beats USC it gives U-M a better schedule then FLA/ARK.

The only way an SEC team goes to the title game is if Florida wins out and wins big, and USC loses to Notre Dame. Even then, Florida leapfrogging Michigan is a long shot.

USC winning out seems to be the only realistic possibility for Michigan to be removed. And USC would have to be good enough to jump Michigan in the computer rankings--USC is already ahead in the polls that matter to the BCS--and moving up is not a guarantee even if they do win out.

EDIT: Another reason Florida shouldn't be considered: Their schedule included a recent game vs Western Carolina...one of the worst teams in Div I-AA.

Edited November 22, 2006 by eva unit zero