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Sebastian

Jordin Tootoo

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So was Todd Bertuzzi

RedDude, I know you're just trolling around and having a good laugh every time you post a silly "whats the difference"question, and thats cool.

Its good to see that most Wings fans know the difference between a good energy/stand up guy and Jordon "Little Puke" Tootoo.

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fans are so fickle and hypocritical. i hate tootoo, but i loved avery. if tootoo were a red wing, you'd all love him.

elemental laws of logic say it suffices to give a single counterexample to

contradict such general claim. so this is it: I personally never liked Avery

and would sure as hell not want Tootoo who doesn't even have skills

Avery does and is nothing more than just a little punk who looks to

piss-poor and/or injurer other teams' players

now translation into English: no, I'd not like Tootoo in Winged Wheel

at all. I'd be ashamed of it. I've been through this when this team got

Hatcher and Bertuzzi and their arrival to Detroit didn't change the fact

that I despised both of them

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:blink: Just how many Americans do you think are on the team now? So you are saying that is why the Joe doesn't sell out? again... :blink:

People were saying we have too many Europeans and Detroit fans can't ID with them.

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fans are so fickle and hypocritical. i hate tootoo, but i loved avery. if tootoo were a red wing, you'd all love him.

nope.

but thanks for telling me what I'd think.

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fans are so fickle and hypocritical. i hate tootoo, but i loved avery. if tootoo were a red wing, you'd all love him.

Not necessarily.

I used to think the same way for a lot of people if some players were on the Wings (i.e. Iginla, Kariya, et al) but some fans just don't like certain players for whatever reasons. It may not always be "right" to me or you, but it's nothing new in sports and it doesn't make these certain fans dumb or hypocritcal in that sense.

I'd be willing to set any reservations I had with Tootoo aside if he could help the Wings, but I perfectly understand why some in here might not as he definitely isn't well-liked in the league by many people.

That doesn't make me any better than other fans that might not like him or more better in the behavioral or hypocritical sense.

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RedDude, I know you're just trolling around and having a good laugh every time you post a silly "whats the difference"question, and thats cool.

Its good to see that most Wings fans know the difference between a good energy/stand up guy and Jordon "Little Puke" Tootoo.

I'm having a good laugh because you think you know me, but thats cool too.

I'm dropping this subject. I have my opinion and you have yours. And whether you like his style of play or not, I still maintain my original argument that he would be a great fit for us.

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I'm having a good laugh because you think you know me, but thats cool too.

I'm dropping this subject. I have my opinion and you have yours. And whether you like his style of play or not, I still maintain my original argument that he would be a great fit for us.

After that deal he received in Nashville, it's a dead topic now.

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fans are so fickle and hypocritical. i hate tootoo, but i loved avery. if tootoo were a red wing, you'd all love him.

You couldn't be any further from the truth, based on simple logic arguments your absolute truth is proven wrong by the fact I never liked Avery, and I hate Tootoo, Ruutu, and you too.

Just kidding I don't hate you I just used that for the rhyme!

elemental laws of logic say it suffices to give a single counterexample to

contradict such general claim. so this is it: I personally never liked Avery

and would sure as hell not want Tootoo who doesn't even have skills

Avery does and is nothing more than just a little punk who looks to

piss-poor and/or injurer other teams' players

now translation into English: no, I'd not like Tootoo in Winged Wheel

at all. I'd be ashamed of it. I've been through this when this team got

Hatcher and Bertuzzi and their arrival to Detroit didn't change the fact

that I despised both of them

I could not agree more if I tried!!!!

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You couldn't be any further from the truth, based on simple logic arguments your absolute truth is proven wrong by the fact I never liked Avery, and I hate Tootoo, Ruutu, and you too.

Just kidding I don't hate you I just used that for the rhyme!

What about Chelios?

I've always gone with the saying "you hate playing against the guy, but you'd love to have him on your team." Even if you love him on your team, doesn't mean you like him.

I can't think of many players that I disliked prior to joining the Wings and then liked them after they became Wings. Hasek for example, I respect his abilities, but I really don't like some of the crap he does/did and I'm not a big fan of his personality. The fact that he is a Wing doesn't really change that.

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Chris Pronger anyone? :blink:

It's funny how things change over time. Gordie Howe was a god in many people's eyes and people talked about how fierce he was throwing elbows, etc. Same with Messier back in the 80's.

Now, guys that throw elbows are punks.

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What about Chelios?

I've always gone with the saying "you hate playing against the guy, but you'd love to have him on your team." Even if you love him on your team, doesn't mean you like him.

I can't think of many players that I disliked prior to joining the Wings and then liked them after they became Wings. Hasek for example, I respect his abilities, but I really don't like some of the crap he does/did and I'm not a big fan of his personality. The fact that he is a Wing doesn't really change that.

Not liking to play against a guy when he is on another team but liking him when he is on your team, is different than not liking a guy for the way he plays.

Cheli is a great example of a on the edge player, he has some slight stick work and tricks he uses. He doesn't take a full on 5 stride run at a guy.

Not sure if I explained myself well enough.

It's funny how things change over time. Gordie Howe was a god in many people's eyes and people talked about how fierce he was throwing elbows, etc. Same with Messier back in the 80's.

Now, guys that throw elbows are punks.

My explanation: (should read as my guess)

We now know what happens to players when they get elbowed in the head (medically speaking) when Howe did it, no one knew the severity of concussions and so on. Also player equipment, like shoulder and elbow pads, have come a long way, not only does the hitter feel less of the impact they have a hard exterior shell making them almost lethal.

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Found this topic from around the deadline time of 2008...super funny how these opinion's have changed! I would proudly say that mine along with a few others in this original thread had the same opinion back then as we do now! I can't say the same for some others.... :lol:

Read thru a few! Some of you have wavered more than John Kerry! :hysterical:

Edited by LeftWinger

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Found this topic from around the deadline time of 2008...super funny how these opinion's have changed! I would proudly say that mine along with a few others in this original thread had the same opinion back then as we do now! I can't say the same for some others.... :lol:

Read thru a few! Some of you have wavered more than John Kerry! :hysterical:

haha! thanks for a good laugh.

truth being said - a lot of my perception of Tootoo changed after seeing him play against the Wings last playoffs. and I was already a believer the moment Holland signed him - thankfully, this time I was right and don't need to change opinion again :)

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haha! thanks for a good laugh.

truth being said - a lot of my perception of Tootoo changed after seeing him play against the Wings last playoffs. and I was already a believer the moment Holland signed him - thankfully, this time I was right and don't need to change opinion again :)

I like a few of the comments by some of his big supporters now that say, even though they warmed up to Chelios they would NEVER want Tootoo on this team.... "Not now, not ever!" quote, un-quote!

It's all funny now, and it just goes to show that no matter how much a player is hated from another team, there is a reason he is hated, he is good and he drives you nuts how good he plays against you. Pronger, Lemieux, Backes....I have a feeling that they would/would've had the same effect on the same fans that said "not now, not ever" to Tootoo...

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Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I had to go back and see if I voiced my opinion. Too bad I didn't. I could now be doing the "neener neener neener toldyaso toldyaso toldyaso neener neener neener" chant.

That said, I have respect for those who will change their opinions when taking into consideration new evidence, and also for those who will stick to their guns as long as they're willing to consider new evidence.

It's a matter of liking or not liking. Opinions are like noses: Everyone has one, but you can only pick your own.

My opinion? I like Tootoo.

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Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I had to go back and see if I voiced my opinion. Too bad I didn't. I could now be doing the "neener neener neener toldyaso toldyaso toldyaso neener neener neener" chant.

That said, I have respect for those who will change their opinions when taking into consideration new evidence, and also for those who will stick to their guns as long as they're willing to consider new evidence.

It's a matter of liking or not liking. Opinions are like noses: Everyone has one, but you can only pick your own.

My opinion? I like Tootoo.

Ya, I tried picking someone elses nose once, didn't work out so well :P I hated Tootoo on Nashville, mostly because he was doing his job, agitating lol. I loved the signing immediately though

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Like him or hate him the Wings needed a player like him on this team. If he chips in a few points, keeps the flies off, and rattles the teeth of some d-men on the fore check then what more do you want.

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It's all funny now, and it just goes to show that no matter how much a player is hated from another team, there is a reason he is hated, he is good and he drives you nuts how good he plays against you. Pronger, Lemieux, Backes....I have a feeling that they would/would've had the same effect on the same fans that said "not now, not ever" to Tootoo...

yep, but back then in 2008 Tootoo was IMHO worse player than he is now. back then he was more about dirty tricks and being pure pest and I myself didn't like the idea of him on the Wings team.

he made progress later in his career and as of 2012 I liked the idea of Wings shopping for him. his performance in 2012 playoffs was very convincing to me. not just dirtbag and pest but also a player with tremendous energy and a true inspiration to give their best for other players. he was IMHO Nashville's top player in that round. this Tootoo, I gladly welcome. not the 2008 version.

Pronger, Lemieux - I don't think there ever was discussion about their skills. that's pretty different than Tootoo here..

Edited by akustyk

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yep, but back then in 2008 Tootoo was IMHO worse player than he is now. back then he was more about dirty tricks and being pure pest and I myself didn't like the idea of him on the Wings team.

he made progress later in his career and as of 2012 I liked the idea of Wings shopping for him. his performance in 2012 playoffs was very convincing to me. not just dirtbag and pest but also a player with tremendous energy and a true inspiration to give their best for other players. he was IMHO Nashville's top player in that round. this Tootoo, I gladly welcome. not the 2008 version.

Pronger, Lemieux - I don't think there ever was discussion about their skills. that's pretty different than Tootoo here..

Are you sure you're thinking of the 2012 playoffs? Tootoo only played three games. the rest of the time he was a healthy scratch.

My opinion is more or less the same. Good on him for no cheapshots so far this year. And it's nice to have a guy who drops the gloves. Though it's mostly been staged fights, which doesn't mean a lot to me.

I still think he's a defensive liability and at $1.9 mill he's overpaid for his 8 minutes a night. If he earns more ice time, keeps hitting guys without cheapshots, and sticks up for his teammates, I could come around on him.

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I came out hard against Tootoo at several points during the offseason and lockout, and a lot of people disagreed with me. I don't think much has happened since the season started that could be used to justify his $1.9 million AAC. On the other hand, when he's actually been on the ice and playing hockey, it's not like his play has been terrible enough that I can point to that and go: "See!! I won the argument!".

I still think his game is a joke. The Wings have acquired PLENTY of players that I hated as opponents, but quickly respected once they became Wings. Chelios, Brett Hull, and Bertuzzi come to mind. But there's the key difference there - those guys were all skilled hockey players, not one-dimensional cheap shot artists and agitators. I would argue that the Wings haven't employed trash like this since the days of Sean Avery. (A note on that: Avery in the early days was a total a-hole, but this was before "sloppy seconds", fashion internships, and waving the stick in front of goaltender's faces - he was actually a somewhat popular player at the time, but management saw what was coming with him and moved him before he ever had the chance to embarass us).

The big picture here is that we gave a 3-year deal and borderline Top 6 forward money to a guy whose only marketable "skill appears" to be an odious reputation. In other words, any garbage AHL'er making $750,000 a year could just decide tomorrow that they wanted to act like Jordin Tootoo, and they'd have that same reputation within a year or two. He's lucky if he plays 8 minutes a game on the 4th line. And I'm sorry, but you can't be considered an "enforcer" when you're 5'9" and pretty much every known "enforcer" around the league is about two weight classes above you. He scares nobody, but annoys everyone, and therefore, does nothing to enhance the effectiveness of the team, while tarnishing the Red Wings brand.

I've said this time and time again, but the idea that you can improve team toughness by throwing guys on the 4th line who do nothing but fight (or cheap shot) is absurd. "Toughness" is having power forwards like Shanahan, Holmstrom, or Franzen that do the dirty work to keep the puck. It's having skilled forwards like Zetterberg and Datsyuk are aren't huge players, but are willing to throw a shoulder into you in the corner. And it's about having defensemen who stick up for their goaltender and move guys physically when they have to, rather than running guys behind the play and getting caught out of position.

I'm not going keep hating on Tootoo for the duration of his contract because Babcock's use of him shows that he already agrees with me. In terms of playing time and doing things that actually impact the scoreboard, he's already less important than guys like Tatar, Andersson, and Emmerton. He just happens to make more than those guys.

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Are you sure you're thinking of the 2012 playoffs? Tootoo only played three games. the rest of the time he was a healthy scratch.

My opinion is more or less the same. Good on him for no cheapshots so far this year. And it's nice to have a guy who drops the gloves. Though it's mostly been staged fights, which doesn't mean a lot to me.

I still think he's a defensive liability and at $1.9 mill he's overpaid for his 8 minutes a night. If he earns more ice time, keeps hitting guys without cheapshots, and sticks up for his teammates, I could come around on him.

thing get hazy when you reach certain age... ;) but, yes, it had to be 2012 as what I recall is him being big factor against the Wings... and 2008 seems a bit too far away in the past...

as for the opinion on him right now... we'll see. he's been OK so far. if Wings advance to the playoffs and Tootoo brings the same energy and inspiration I remember - it'll be a great deal for Holland.

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My only concern with Tootoo was whether or not people would get all those damn whistles. Thankfully this hasn't happened in Detroit.

This lead to a funny conversation with my dad at a recent Wings game.

Dad: Is that Tootoo guy playing tonight?

Me: Yes.

Dad: Cool, what's his number?

Me: ......Two-two.....

Dad: Huh?

Me: .....twenty-two.....

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What about Sammy? Francine? Kronwall? Quincey?

If Tootoo was our worst player I would be more than happy. We are not loosing because of him... at least he's showing some passion and balls...

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thing get hazy when you reach certain age... ;) but, yes, it had to be 2012 as what I recall is him being big factor against the Wings... and 2008 seems a bit too far away in the past...

as for the opinion on him right now... we'll see. he's been OK so far. if Wings advance to the playoffs and Tootoo brings the same energy and inspiration I remember - it'll be a great deal for Holland.

it was def 2008 when he was a pain in the wings ass. i vividly remember hating his guts for scoring on us in that series

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