It's Time For Change

[gcom007 1,465]

I mean, wow, seriously, skaters is one thing, but how on earth can some of you people continue to knock arguably the best goaltending tandem in league history? I mean, seriously, reality...get a grip on it...my mind is still really blown...

[Barrie 900]

Even here in Calgary, no one is afraid of our mighty red wings! Why? Because we're still missing the key cog in the wheel and that's between the pipes. So before you freak out, I love ozzie, but in all honesty, I don't know if detroit is really that much different than we were last year. Yeah we were close, but we could be miles ahead with a true #1 elite tendy back there for us.

With the Cap, if we get a goalie like Kipper, Luongo, Brodeur, etc., he'll eat up a lot of Salary and we'll have to get weaker in another area.

If we can continue to limit our shots on net to under 25, we're fine. Having guys like Hasek and Ozzie allows us to strengthen or skaters and control the puck; instead of staying back on our heels and relying on our goalie to bail us out every game.

[dallas27 7]

What you probably noticed is only one of those tenders has won a cup. We have two on our roster that already have.

Hasek WAS the best, maybe ever, as his 6 vezinas point out, but that game on Saturday was terrible. Those 2nd & 3rd goals were so soft, and those are the types of goals that KILL teams in the playoffs. I was so angry when I heard Kenny signed Hasek in the summer, I was really hoping they were gonna get somebody new. Hasek isn't nearly the same Hasek, his GAA is great (but as we all know that pretty much a team stat.) His save % is almost a whole .20% less than Osgoods! How does our 6 time vezina winner explain that when the two play behind the same defence!?

Since you just joined I'm going to give you the lowdown. Around here the first two months don't count statistically for Hasek.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Okay everybody CHILL OUT!!! We played a good game. No need to dismantle the team. Everyone just needs to relax for a second and back off from the ledge. I just hope everyone realizes that a few depth additions do need to be made..because you just got a perfect view of what being without our #4 forward and our #3 Dman is going to do to our team, particularly our PP..

[cboth686 0]

If we can continue to limit our shots on net to under 25, we're fine. Having guys like Hasek and Ozzie allows us to strengthen or skaters and control the puck; instead of staying back on our heels and relying on our goalie to bail us out every game.

Good point, however there is games that we limit teams to less than 25 shots a game and still loose....Kind of like today how we held anaheim to 19 shots and they still managed to score three goals? We can't win cups like that!

[wingslogo19 281]

Here me out before everyone jumps down my throat.

Depending on what happens in the playoffs, I think it's time the Wings took things in a different direction.

First, go out and sign Luongo. After this, maybe it's time we started trading some of our surpluss of European players for some North American's.

I know this is sacrilidge to some around here but perhaps giving up players like Filpulla and Hudler for some young, scrappy NA's would be better for our club.

I'm not saying this deal could ever go through but dealing away guys like Filpulla and Hudler (or one of the two) for a guy like Lucic would be awesome.

I love the way our team plays but it's obvious that you can win championships a lot easier with a good goalie, physical play and the trap.

I'm tired of our team being the only playoff contender in the league without a true great goalie.

Sign Luongo and go after some North American grit.

Ok sorry to burst your bubble here, but Lou is signed in Van.. So Im not sure where you get this sign him part.. AND the Canucks would NEVER trade bobby lou, he is the TEAM

Edited February 11, 2008 by wingslogo19

[cboth686 0]

Sorry, why don't the first two months count for Hasek? I'm confused...

[dallas27 7]

Don't worry about it

[Chairman Maouth 97]

>_> Luongo is signed for another season...

No. He's in the second year of a 4 year contract. 2 more after this.

[SweWings 45]

No. He's in the second year of a 4 year contract. 2 more after this.

Yeah. I'm gonna blame this on being Swedish and unable to read . Doesn't exactly make things better for this topic tho.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Here me out before everyone jumps down my throat.

Depending on what happens in the playoffs, I think it's time the Wings took things in a different direction.

First, go out and sign Luongo. After this, maybe it's time we started trading some of our surpluss of European players for some North American's.

I know this is sacrilidge to some around here but perhaps giving up players like Filpulla and Hudler for some young, scrappy NA's would be better for our club.

I'm not saying this deal could ever go through but dealing away guys like Filpulla and Hudler (or one of the two) for a guy like Lucic would be awesome.

I love the way our team plays but it's obvious that you can win championships a lot easier with a good goalie, physical play and the trap.

I'm tired of our team being the only playoff contender in the league without a true great goalie.

Sign Luongo and go after some North American grit.

Why after a rough patch of games do members in here want to completely dismantle the team? Especially a team that has taken care of business more often than not the entire season, and will go into the playoffs as a high seed?

And you know what? This team has had a 3-game losing streak already this year, and have managed to come through that just fine.

All teams, I don't care how good or bad you are, go through rough patches.

Why do people keep fighting the goalie tandem that Detroit currently has? Hasek is still extremely capable despite his "old age", Osgood is having one of his best seasons, either one of them can be a very capable starter in the playoffs. There's no point in talking about obtaining Roberto Luongo. He's untouchable for at least the next few years to Vancouver, and again why are people fighting the goalie tandem? It's the best 1-2 punch of goaltending in the NHL right now. And I am very content on having Osgood re-signed over the next few years.

As for switching Euros to North American players, who do you suggest? What would we have to give up then?

This team does not need a major overhaul completely getting rid of most of the current team. This is the same roster, for the most part, that went deep in the WC finals and if not for some bad bounces, had a good chance to play in the Stanley Cup Finals. This is the same team that did not get their butts handed to them "physically" by "physical" teams in San Jose, Calgary, and Anaheim. They are not going to just outhit you out of the building but it should be obvious by now that the Wings will be in games through a combination of skill/skating and hard work and not backing down. It happened last playoffs and I don't see why they can't do it again this postseason.

They just a guy or two for scoring depth on a 2nd/3rd line, and possible a low-depth d-man. That's it.

The Wings still have it going good so far in the grand scheme of things up to this point in the season. Enough knee-jerk overreactions when every team in the NHL struggles at some point.

[Guest octopusdank]

Three loses in a row - you are right. Lets abandon ship and become the Oilers.

cool another wings/sox fan!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I would absolutely like to see more Canadians on the roster. I dont want to trade Lidstrom, Zetterberg or Datsyuk to acquire them however, these are europeans who have proven there worth, Holmstrom too, he's got the heart of a Swedish Lion

But I know people like Filpula, and he works really hard, but I havent been impressed with him this season. He's only got 26 points, he never shoots the puck when he should, if he did shoot more, he'd be a great player, but I dont think he's ever gonna get it.

Hudler would be expendable IMO. His size hurts him, I know people like to think he'll turn into a Cliff Ronning/Marty St Louis, but it aint gonna happen.

Kopecky has shown some worth the past couple of games, but I'll never be a fan. If I was in charge, I'd probably trade him.

Franzen has grown on me alot, after the past couple games against the Ducks, he's shown he'll play tough if he has too. Samuelsson, eh, he does his job for his price tag. Nothing more, nothing less. Lilja has served as a pretty good defenceman for us, and a decent enforcer, but I wouldnt re-sign him. We have Quincey, Meech or Ericcson who could all do his job.

Luongo would be fantastic, but I dont think we have a good chance at getting him. Brodeur might honestly be a better option, if the Devils get anyworse over the next couple of years, he might become available at some point.

As for the canadians we have now, I'd keep Draper, Maltby, Cleary, Downey and Osgood. Then add a couple more. The americans too, Rafalski, Chelios, I'd keep Lebda as a depth defenceman too, love his wheels, not so crazy about his shot.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I remember the last 3 game losing streak we had and I made the mistake of freaking out. Then we beat down teams like we had been before the first 3 game losing streak. Although I wouldn't be objective to more size in a winger or D-man if we don't have to cripple the team by doing it.

Luongo would be fantastic, but I dont think we have a good chance at getting him. Brodeur might honestly be a better option, if the Devils get anyworse over the next couple of years, he might become available at some point.

I think Marty is one of the best of all time, but doesn't the age bother you? It may not be worth going after him compared to having someone who is at the beginning or middle of his prime.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Mudvayneowns91

[Echolalia 2,961]

I would love for Luongo to be a Wing, but he would cost way to much, assuming Vancouver somehow is willing to part with the face of the franchise.

I would also love some gritty players on this team; some more Clearys. I don't like the idea of trading Filpulla away, though, because that kid seems to be bursting with potential. Hudler I don't care about, Sammuelson, Lilja, Meech, Draper, Maltby, Franzen, I wouldn't mind seeing any of them go, so long as who replaces them is a better fit with our organization. But some North American blue collar players could really add some character to a predominantly finesse team.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Echolalia

[interminded 1]

We should sign Dan Cloutier first.

Then trade Lidstrom for Wade Belak and Zetterberg for Dan LaCouture.

[Hank 0]

I don't think I, nor anyone else here is suggesting 'blowing up the team'.

But I don't think some changes similar to those made in the summer of 96 are out of line.

We changed our style a bit and dumped some softer more offensive players for some grit.

Like I've already stated, I like our team. But if we lose out in the 1st or 2nd round this year, I think upgrading our goaltending, adding more grit and perhaps simplifying our style from always puck possession to a little more dump and chase would increase our chances of winning the Cup.

A lot of people here got ticked with Zetterbergs high-risk, low-reward backhand pass in OT against the Leafs. But that's the Wings style. We almost never make the simple play. It's no different than when Lilja coughed up the puck in OT against the Ducks last spring. 29 other teams would have wrapped it off the boards instead of cutting through the middle of the ice - especially if it's a dman like Lilja. But the Wings have built a team where the only option is to skate or pass it out. In a lot of ways I appreciate it that a lot more because most teams in the NHL are boring beyond belief. But I'd sacrifice some exciting games if it meant a better shot at the Cup. And at this point, the stock of some of our young players like Hudler and Filpulla are sky-high. They could fetch a very rich bounty.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

We should sign Dan Cloutier first.

Then trade Lidstrom for Wade Belak and Zetterberg for Dan LaCouture.

Great ideas, but I don't think Lacouture is playing in the league anymore.

[bringback91 2]

I usually steer clear of all this "canadian boy" bologna, but this all seems just a bit silly especially with the timing of it. (after a whole 3 loses) To me it cements the fact of the Wings having a spoiled fanbase, but that's a whole nother topic that's been covered many times, just as this has.

For one if you want Luongo, say good bye to Z, just as i say everytime someone says pick him up. Z would have to be included in any deal sent the other way. That'd be dumb.

Secondly, as far as all the N.A. vs. Euro crap always posted, it really reminds me of old white dudes not wanting black or any other non-white guys on their baseball teams back in the day. You can try to cover that up by saying it's "not a race issue, it's a nationality thing" but than the only one your fooling is yourself. It's silly.

Euro- Z, Dats, Flip, Hudler, Kop, Lids, Lilja, Kronner, Hasek, Mule, Sammy

The great and powerful N.A.'s!!- Drapes, Malts, Downey, Drake, Cheli, Meech, Ellis, Ozzie, Howard (next year), Ralf, Cleary, Lebda

You mean to tell me that the "problem" (how ever much of one you can actually have with your team winning at record setting pace, against a vast varitey of opponents, including teams chocked full of big bad canadian boys) lies with the Euros? Seems to me the weaker side of the lineup lies with the mighty N.A.'s, no? All i ever hear is cheer for the name on the front of the jersey not the back. That should include birth certificates also. You don't like the style being played that has made the Wings the best in the leauge for about 15 years now, don't blame the players blame the coaches, and the front office.

[Hank 0]

I usually steer clear of all this "canadian boy" bologna, but this all seems just a bit silly especially with the timing of it. (after a whole 3 loses) To me it cements the fact of the Wings having a spoiled fanbase, but that's a whole nother topic that's been covered many times, just as this has.

For one if you want Luongo, say good bye to Z, just as i say everytime someone says pick him up. Z would have to be included in any deal sent the other way. That'd be dumb.

Secondly, as far as all the N.A. vs. Euro crap always posted, it really reminds me of old white dudes not wanting black or any other non-white guys on their baseball teams back in the day. You can try to cover that up by saying it's "not a race issue, it's a nationality thing" but than the only one your fooling is yourself. It's silly.

Euro- Z, Dats, Flip, Hudler, Kop, Lids, Lilja, Kronner, Hasek, Mule, Sammy

The great and powerful N.A.'s!!- Drapes, Malts, Downey, Drake, Cheli, Meech, Ellis, Ozzie, Howard (next year), Ralf, Cleary, Lebda

You mean to tell me that the "problem" (how ever much of one you can actually have with your team winning at record setting pace, against a vast varitey of opponents, including teams chocked full of big bad canadian boys) lies with the Euros? Seems to me the weaker side of the lineup lies with the mighty N.A.'s, no? All i ever hear is cheer for the name on the front of the jersey not the back. That should include birth certificates also. You don't like the style being played that has made the Wings the best in the leauge for about 15 years now, don't blame the players blame the coaches, and the front office.

Look at the last 3 Stanley Cup winners. How many NA's did they have on their club?

Anaheim, Carolina and TB all had a lot of NA's. And their best players too. (Getzlaf, Kunitz, Perry, Penner, McDonald, Pronger, Neidermayer, O'Donnell, Beauchimen, Staal, Brind'Amour, Whitney, Stillman, Cole, Lecavailer, Richards, St.Louis, Boyle, etc.)

Even the runner ups all had a great NA presence to them.

Sure, they had some good Europeans too, but there's a need for a good balance. Just look at the Wings last 3 Stanley Cup rosters - they had an abundance of NA talent on their top 2 scoring lines.

If you want to call it racist, fine. I don't consider myself a racist but there's a definite difference between how NA's view the Cup compared to some Europeans. NHL players have said as much.

Heck, look at our own Slava Kozlov. He asked why the Stanley Cup was so important. Sergei Fedorov answered "because if we win, we all make more money". Not all Euro's look at it that way, but far more do than NA's.

And believe it or not, it would help at the box office too. I can't tell you how many people I've overhead saying at the Joe or even on message boards and radio shows say that they want more players they can relate to. It's human nature. Just like a Swedish star in the SEL will always be more popular than a NA star.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Hank

[eva unit zero 271]

If you want to call it racist, fine. I don't consider myself a racist but there's a definite difference between how NA's view the Cup compared to some Europeans. NHL players have said as much.

Heck, look at our own Slava Kozlov. He asked why the Stanley Cup was so important. Sergei Fedorov answered "because if we win, we all make more money". Not all Euro's look at it that way, but far more do than NA's.

I don't know if you want to call out two of the best clutch playoff performers of the past fifteen years for their lack of desire to win the Cup.

Oh, and BTW...here is two separate examples of what Fedorov has said in regards to the Cup:

"Everyone on the team wants to do this, to win the Cup, and you know why? Because it is going to be fun!"

"We've been through it before, we've won it a couple times. It's something that gives you the most satisfaction, because the job is done and you become a world champion, a world-class team. Those kinds of words or phrases give you most satisfaction. To me, it's simple -- the job is done for the season and we can go and rest."

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Why is everyone jumping on getting another goalie right now. GOALTENDING HAS NOT BEEN THE PROBLEM with the wings the last playoff runs. Ut oh 3 game losing streak, lets change what has been working for the wings the last 15 years and 3 Cups.

[VM1138 1,921]

This whole thread is ridiculous. It's a prime example of stats running wild.

THe fact that no Euro captain has won a Cup, or that all the past 3 Cup teams have had more NAs than not is irrelevant. This is hockey. Anyone can beat anyone on any given night. It's a coincidence, all these stats being cited.

It doesn't matter where your player is from, it's how they play that matters. THere are finesse N.A.'s, and physical Euros. You just have to find a way to put them all together.

And as the WIngs have shown, physicality matters little when you have the ability to evade hits and hit at key moments, instead of the entire game.

[OsGOD 3]

Why is everyone jumping on getting another goalie right now. GOALTENDING HAS NOT BEEN THE PROBLEM with the wings the last playoff runs. Ut oh 3 game losing streak, lets change what has been working for the wings the last 15 years and 3 Cups.

QFT... bold especially but the rest is just as valid

Like i say... duct tape can only keep a boat a float for so long. Going out and getting goalies every year (sometimes new, sometimes the same) is not changing the outcome at the end... But somewhere people still believe that goaltending will win the game. The best a goalie can do is go to 15 billion overtime periods at 0-0. With out a team capable of scoring, whats the point of the "biggest and bestest" <-- yeah i used bestest! goalie around?

[bringback91 2]

Look at the last 3 Stanley Cup winners. How many NA's did they have on their club?

Anaheim, Carolina and TB all had a lot of NA's. And their best players too. (Getzlaf, Kunitz, Perry, Penner, McDonald, Pronger, Neidermayer, O'Donnell, Beauchimen, Staal, Brind'Amour, Whitney, Stillman, Cole, Lecavailer, Richards, St.Louis, Boyle, etc.)

Even the runner ups all had a great NA presence to them.

Sure, they had some good Europeans too, but there's a need for a good balance. Just look at the Wings last 3 Stanley Cup rosters - they had an abundance of NA talent on their top 2 scoring lines.

If you want to call it racist, fine. I don't consider myself a racist but there's a definite difference between how NA's view the Cup compared to some Europeans. NHL players have said as much.

Heck, look at our own Slava Kozlov. He asked why the Stanley Cup was so important. Sergei Fedorov answered "because if we win, we all make more money". Not all Euro's look at it that way, but far more do than NA's.

And believe it or not, it would help at the box office too. I can't tell you how many people I've overhead saying at the Joe or even on message boards and radio shows say that they want more players they can relate to. It's human nature. Just like a Swedish star in the SEL will always be more popular than a NA star.

That's the funny part. The Wings do have a good N.A. presence. They have more N.A.'s than they do Euros. None of those teams can hold a candle to the Wings, they've all been crap, won a cup and back to crap again all while the Wings have won Cups and stayed 1 of the top 2 or 3 in the leauge for 15 years, that's why alot of Wings fans are spoiled. I could sit here and list off a bunch of players from Europe that were equaly if not more important to thier teams Cup win than there N.A. counterpart. Doesn't prove a whole lot. We won't even get into the heavy Euro presence that not only help win but also lead the Wings to 3 stanley cups, but than again that's not good enough for Wings fans anyway so it's not worth it.

No, it's not racist, it's Xenophobic is what it is. Most of your reasons seem to be based on personal feelings and perceptions of certain players than actually based on fact. You don't really know anything about what these players feel and what the cup means to them, you think you do but you've only convinced yourself of it. Let's take one quote out of context (could've been a joke, I mean Russians are also capable of a bit of humor if you didn't know) and take it as the gospel. It's a joke. Now if Joe Thorton, or J.R. says this it's funny and good for the game to have people like that to market.

No, a better economy and lower ticket prices along with not having two other great teams to choose from in the Pistons and Tigers to spend money on. I'm glad the fair weather fan is being driven off, good I prefer it. I mean, I can't tell you how many people on message boards, radio, and even at the Joe are simply talking out of their ass. Maybe it would help ticket sales, but that doesn't mean it'll help the Wings, and it sure as hell don't mean it's right. Let me guess the Tigers are too Latin American for you also, huh?