Would you trade

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

You're just rambling now. No one said he's not a fantastic player or that he wouldn't make "any team better", so stop sucking Sid's cock long enough to comprehend what you're reading. All they said is they wouldn't trade Dats or Zetts for him. And since you don't like that answer (obviously cause you're all up on Crosby's sack) you start lashing out and bringing up defensemen, etc. How are you so certain that Dats (and Zetts) production will tail off? Just because we won a Cup doesn't make them washed up old news all of the sudden. Datsyuk could stick handle circles around Crosby! We have plenty more years of both of those guys producing not only offensively but defensively as well. And how are you so certain that Sid's gonna turn into this awesome player as he gets older? The answer is, you're not. The whole purpose of your posts have been to slob more of Crosby's knob than to seriously discuss trades.

Good day sir.

esteef

He doesn't need to be able to promise that Sid is going to be getting any better. As it is right now he is better offensively than Zetterberg and Datsyuk. All that's going to happen in the future is for him to mature, become an even better leader, get better defensively (see: Steve Yzerman), and maybe even bump up the offensive numbers. Fact of the matter is that even if he didn't get any better on offense he is still a generational talent capable of putting up 120 points a year (no Datsyuk and Zetterberg can not do that in their prime which is where they are right now). Player for player, it's so obvious that Crosby is better than both individually that you could ask anyone from any fanbase other than Detroit's and they would agree. The only debate you would have not taking him for either D or Z is the fitting into the system debate and even that is up for debate.

Where was Z at 21 years old? Not in the NHL. Where was Datsyuk when he was 21? Not in the NHL. Where is Crosby at 21? almost 300 points in the NHL.

[Dabura 12,232]

Player for player, it's so obvious that Crosby is better than both individually

What are you smoking?

Datsyuk and Zetteberg are world-class forwards in all three zones, capable of great offensive production and top-notch two-way play. Sid scores a lot and whines. He doesn't even play on the PK.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

What are you smoking?

Datsyuk and Zetteberg are world-class forwards in all three zones, capable of great offensive production and top-notch two-way play. Sid scores a lot and whines. He doesn't even play on the PK.

Pulling the whining card is just making you look more ignorant.

Edit: Oh, and he actually does play on the PK. Get your facts straight.

Edited October 18, 2008 by DatsyukownzU13

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

One for Crosby is cool, but 2 for him? No. He's great, but not better then both combined.

[The Secret 304]

What are you smoking?

Datsyuk and Zetteberg are world-class forwards in all three zones, capable of great offensive production and top-notch two-way play. Sid scores a lot and whines. He doesn't even play on the PK.

Wow, I am just shocked that people hate this kid so much because he gets emotional playing a physical sport. He whines and that makes him not worthy of being a Captain. Jerome Iginla gets emotional and takes cheap shots and even does some whining of his own... does that make him a bad Captain? I don't think so! How about the Great Gretzky, a tad bit of a whiner, definately a puss and people hated him for that too despite the facts that he was the best. Its the Kids natural born ability that is the draw to him... I don't care if he sucks his thumb at night he can play hockey. What better way to lead and be a Captain then to do what your there to do... produce. I love Dats and Z but how long were they in the league before they learned to play the way they do? Crosby hands down out produces them offensively and he can and will learn the defensive game too. Stevie was all offense at first and learned to be one of the best 2 way forwards ever. Don't underestimate his age and what he has already accomplished... each passing year he will continue to develop! I don't particularly like his or anyone's whiney antics but that will not shade the obvious from me, he is the best of the best and I would take the chance right now, today, with this team and trade Dats AND Z for Crosby.

Edited October 18, 2008 by The Secret

[jjd06e 10]

I would do it.... would you?

Discuss.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

:battle: :punch: :rotflmao: :caution:

[esteef 2,679]

Dude I personally think Crosby is kind of a *****. I just respect his skill as a hockey player. And I'm sure you'll see what I mean in 2010 when he slices up Sweden and Russia on the way to gold.

I don't know if its lost on you or not, but if you're busy in the offensive zone then you don't need a heck of a lot of defensive skills. The other team can't score 200' from the net. Not to mention there are 3rd and 4th line players on most team who all they do is play defensive hockey.

Also, not to mention defensive skills can be taught, offensive flair is pretty much something you cannot coach. Also Sid isn't that brutal in his defensive zone.

THERE IS NOT DOUBT Z AND D ARE FANTASTIC HOCKEY PLAYERS. They are stars in this league and great ones at that, but Crosby is once or twice in a generation type talent. And if you don't believe me, ask Gretzky.

Z and D are good defensively because they are veterans and they know the game of hockey from years of experience. 5 years ago Crosby was in high school. Of course he's still learning the game. But to put up 120+ points before you're 20, just look at all the guys who have done that before him and how they turned out.

I'm not crapping on your stars, god knows I'd pay a lot to have either of those guys on my team.

I'm just saying 2 for 1 is a discussion worth having and 1 for 1 is a done deal. Think about it this way, if you were GM in Pittsburgh would you flip Crosby for Zetterberg?

One thing I will give you dudes credit for (unlike boards elsewhere around the league) is that you've refrained (mostly) from name calling and insulting in order to have a reasonable chat even when you take what I'm saying as offensive.

Well done.

Fair enough.

...and of course I'd trade Crosby for Zetts if I were the Pens, cause Crosby sucks!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Pulling the whining card is just making you look more ignorant.

Edit: Oh, and he actually does play on the PK. Get your facts straight.

Well, it may not be the most eloquent way of putting things, but it does say a lot about Sid's character.

Now, within the context of trading, and outside of it are two different things. RIGHT NOW - as of this season - each of Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better than Crosby. While their offense may not be as dazzling as Sid's, their overall game makes up for that. The difference between Crosby and Datsyuk/Zetterbgs defense is much bigger than the difference between Crosby and Datsyuk/Zetterbergs offense, while everything else is pretty much a wash.

Now WITHIN the context of trading, yes anyone in their right mind would trade one of Zetterberg or Datsyuk for Crosby as age immediately becomes a factor and once Zetterberg is re-signed, all players will be operating under long-term contracts. Assuming Sid takes the Steve Yzerman approach to his game and sacrifices the statistical padding for a broader game, then within a year or two he could easily be better than either of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

But of course, for the statistical fanboys, the logic is quite different...

As for Crosby "playing on the PK", if you want to call his 12th ranked position for PK time on the Pens this season - a Pens team that has a very shallow offering of defensively capable players in general, then yay for literalism. Otherwise, he was 17th in ShTOI per game for the Pens last season overall and was scrapped to the bench in the playoffs averaging a whopping 10 seconds of short handed ice time per game throughout.

Edited October 18, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[esteef 2,679]

He doesn't need to be able to promise that Sid is going to be getting any better. As it is right now he is better offensively than Zetterberg and Datsyuk. All that's going to happen in the future is for him to mature, become an even better leader, get better defensively (see: Steve Yzerman), and maybe even bump up the offensive numbers. Fact of the matter is that even if he didn't get any better on offense he is still a generational talent capable of putting up 120 points a year (no Datsyuk and Zetterberg can not do that in their prime which is where they are right now). Player for player, it's so obvious that Crosby is better than both individually that you could ask anyone from any fanbase other than Detroit's and they would agree. The only debate you would have not taking him for either D or Z is the fitting into the system debate and even that is up for debate.

Where was Z at 21 years old? Not in the NHL. Where was Datsyuk when he was 21? Not in the NHL. Where is Crosby at 21? almost 300 points in the NHL.

His point totals are not in question here, his all around play is compared to Dats and Zetts. As well as this belief that because he scores, he's headed to turn out like Yzerman, one of the greatest captains the game has seen, simply because "he'll learn it". It's just as possible that he'll turn out like the other umpteen thousand captains not named Yzerman and who are less than stellar in that regard.

Once again, not hating him, and he is good. Just wouldn't trade any part of the best tandem in the league for Sid and his "potential".

esteef

[jim3033 1]

kjsdf awkejrh qkwjhr?! asdkhf!!

[Guest Four]

What about Franzen and Clearly for Heatley?

[revmo10 3]

Zetterberg and Datsyuk have always taken a lot of pride in their defensive games first. Just look at the way Hank kills penalties and the amount of takeaways Dats has. He, by far, leads the league in takeaways every year! What would interesting is if either Hank or Pav got to play in a system that didn't focus on defense. Take Fedorov in the 94 season for example. He had been and still was one of the games best 2 way forwards...if not THE best. Then Yzerman went down and we needed him to step up his offense, so we cut him loose and he goes and scores 120 points and wins the Hart Trophy! You just can't say that Crosby will always put up better numbers until you get Hank and Pav in a system where they don't have to be as responsible as the DRW expect them to be.

No way on earth I would trade both or even one of them for Crosby. Maybe in 5 years but certainly not in the prime of their career. They are hands down the best players on this team outside of Nick (but not comparable). The only problem with Hank is is minor injuries, like right now.

[egroen 384]

Vincent Lecavelier has done what...won a cup with a team not NEARLY as stacked as Detroit was last year.

Lecavalier was a secondary player on that team - he had been stripped of his captaincy well before that year. Andreychuk was their captain, St. Louis was the points leader in the regular season and outscored Lecavalier in the playoffs, Richards was the Conn Smythe winner and points leader in the playoffs. In no way was that Lecavalier's team.

Iginla has carried that Flames franchise for a decade.

To what?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

In a perfect world, I'd take all 3 on my team.

All three are top-10 forwards in the league, so I'm not going to swap two for one though.

In terms of the whining/emotion deal, my defintion is probably too generic/simplistic, but I don't take much stock into the whining card, because every athlete regardless of the sport is going to whine on the bench or to the refs or to the media at some point whenever they are frustrated.

I think Wings fans in general though have perhaps an even more bad biased view towards Crosby than fans of a lot of other teams because not only does he get plenty of attention (deservedly so because he is good etc.), the Wings recently played the Penguins in a playoff series, so the disliking of the Penguins and some of their players are going to be higher than normal.

[BeeRYCE 2]

What about Franzen and Clearly for Heatley?

Hudler, Cleary, and a pick would be ideal. Franzen is a beast.

[lets go pavel 2]

[Dabura 12,232]

Edit: Oh, and he actually does play on the PK. Get your facts straight.

Then he only started this year. Or did he get a lot of PK minutes in the SCF and I just somehow missed it?

All in all, I have my facts straight, thx. Sid scores a lot and cries. He doesn't have much of a defensive game and is not nearly as well-rounded as Datsyuk or Zetterberg. There's more to being an all-world forward than having mad skillz in the o-zone, and while I don't doubt that Sid is a world-class talent, saying what you're saying -- that he's obviously *so much better* than Datsyuk and Zetterberg -- is a candy-ass argument. We might as well be making the case for Phaneuf being the next Lidstrom because Phaneuf can really lay on the body.

Right now, Hank Zetterberg is the best forward in the league. He can be that explosive forward, he can lead, he can hit, he backchecks like his life depends on it, he's arguably the best two-way player in the league, he's golden on the PK...

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

HELL NO! That would be the worst trade I have ever seen!

[#1WingzFan 0]

What about Franzen and Clearly for Heatley?

are u crazy franzen better then heatly

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

No.

[12Newf 0]

f*** NO. what a stupid question. maybe one of them for crosby because he is only going to get better but both? not a chance in hell.

[akustyk 84]

nope

notwithstanding Crosby's skills and potential I'd rather have Zetterberg than him.

even if Zet's skill set is not that big I like his all around game and team-first approach

more than Crosby's tricks. not to mention I can't stand Crosby's whining which vastly

decreases my desire to ever see him touch Winged Wheel. let him stay with his

cry-baby coach Michel.

as for Crosby vs Datsyuk... I don't think there's any comparison here if you just take

skills and all-around abilities into contention. Crosby is this unique species which

raises poor franchises and brings them back into NHL map, just as were Gretzky,

Lemieux or Yzerman and guys like Lindros or Kovalchuk were supposed to be.

Datsyuk is huge but he's not this breed.

the main question of this topic though is if I'd like to trade him for Crosby. and there's

no way in hell I'd like to do this. I like Wings chances more with Datsyuk and I also

like Datsyuk as a team player. truth, Wings could improve skill-wise and leadership-wise

with such trade but it's still not enough to make me "get over" seeing Whining Sindy

in Detroit. sure it's unfair and homeristic but it's mostly about not wanting Crosby here.

now Gino Malkin, even with his pressumably minor skill-pool, is completely different story

- at least once he discovers the ability to play hockey in playoffs

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

are u crazy franzen better then heatly

I pray to god you aren't saying that Franzen is better than Heatley.

This thread is full of Wings bias.

[j.hoop 64]

is there a recording of that anywhere? that was so classic