Put Ozzy in.

[Broken 16 381]

ohh yeah one more

BUY WOODEN STICKS FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOCKEY!

Seriously... the sticks breaking the way they are is nothing short of ludicrous. Whatever benefit gained from using composite sticks is completely nullified and then some, every time one of them breaks. Back when I was playing more serious hockey (still not REALLY serious though) I switched from wood to composite. I love the weight and the flex you can get... but I went back to wood and haven't regretted it since. Besides... I have to actually PAY FOR my sticks. I almost cried when my $150.00 Nike composite shattered a few tears ago. Never again.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Broken 16

[The Secret 304]

This is a stupid suggestion... its not like Howard is losing the games for us alone. How about Don;t take stupid penalties as a solution? Putting in a guy who barely played all reg season, and played like crap when he did get in, hardly seem slike the right things to do? maybe if Howard was getting blown out but he isn't. so NO!

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

Are you kidding me? Obviously no, the only reason why Wings lost was becuase they started to play stupid and got lazy sometimes. Howard stays.

[Electrophile 3,554]

The OP might be on to something though... you think Kenny still has Ranford's number?

Screw Ranford, is CuJo available?

[Opie 308]

Broken 16!!!!!!

I could not agree more with you if I tried, I know I originally said the Wooden stick thing but you nailed the point right here:

Whatever benefit gained from using composite sticks is completely nullified and then some, every time one of them breaks.

My first ever Red Wings game live and in person, 2002 Wings @ Bruins.

2 -2 in OT, Red Wings catch Bruins in a bad line change, Lids is about 10 feet higher than the dots, middle of the slot, goalie out of position, Easy snap shot for a OT winner, half the team was ready to celebrate from the bench, when all of the sudden

ERRRRRRRRRRRR

Lids stick breaks, now that Bad line change just turned into a 2 on 1, executed to a T, one timer goal, OT loss!

I have seen it happen numerous times.

I am not saying forwards should switch, because it doesn't happen to them as much, and with the new slashing rules you would want as fragile a stick as you could find.

But the amount of decent scoring chances that turn into break-a-ways because of a busted stick is just absurd, d-men should have wooden sticks!

[Broken 16 381]

Screw Ranford, is CuJo available?

Hey... I'm one of those 'Cujo got a bad rap' people. I'd LOVE to see Cujo as our back-up right now.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Broken 16

[13dangledangle 965]

You are an idiot.

Too obvious...

ahahahahaha thats what was running through my head a the time. Nice

[Broken 16 381]

Broken 16!!!!!!

I could not agree more with you if I tried, I know I originally said the Wooden stick thing but you nailed the point right here:

My first ever Red Wings game live and in person, 2002 Wings @ Bruins.

2 -2 in OT, Red Wings catch Bruins in a bad line change, Lids is about 10 feet higher than the dots, middle of the slot, goalie out of position, Easy snap shot for a OT winner, half the team was ready to celebrate from the bench, when all of the sudden

ERRRRRRRRRRRR

Lids stick breaks, now that Bad line change just turned into a 2 on 1, executed to a T, one timer goal, OT loss!

I have seen it happen numerous times.

I am not saying forwards should switch, because it doesn't happen to them as much, and with the new slashing rules you would want as fragile a stick as you could find.

But the amount of decent scoring chances that turn into break-a-ways because of a busted stick is just absurd, d-men should have wooden sticks!

Right... and it's the way these sticks are breaking that blows my mind. Alot of the time it looks like they just crumble for no apparent reason. Like Lids stick yesterday. That's INEXCUSABLE for a professional's hockey stick to break like that, in that situation. It drives me insane. Happens to Dats a lot too.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Broken 16

[gcom007 1,465]

Jimmy was standing on his head when the score was 3-2, so saying he has never made the big timely

The glove save on Malhotra, Thornton, the saves on the door step through the mad scrambles, if I remember correctly all happened while the Wings had the lead or were tied.

I find it hilarious all of the glaring mistakes made in this game by Wings skaters and the way to fix it on here starts with the netminders.

That was my point though in saying that last night was his most important game. In the other games where he gave up the second goal, the 3rd and 4th goal tended to follow shortly thereafter as opposed to last night when he battled back and started making the big saves. I'm not disregarding his play throughout the game and while he eventually let in a 3rd and 4th goals, it was due to circumstances more outside of his control than in previous games. He was strong and resilient after the 2nd goal in this game. We were in this game last night until we lost our composure in the 3rd and took a ton of stupid penalties. You can't blame Howard for that.

That said, again, he needs to be stronger in the first in games 3 and 4 if we're going to have a prayer, along with the rest of the team. He hasn't had all the help in the world, but he hasn't helped steady the ship early on, and that's important in the post-season more than ever. A big save when you're up 1-0 is as important as a goal that sends it to 2-0. We need that out of Howard tomorrow.

I don't agree with much of Eva's analysis and I don't think Osgood should go in, but one thing he touched on that has been true in 6 of his 9 playoff starts is that he hasn't made timely saves to help us attain and maintain a lead. I do believe that's more important than some acknowledge. And to be fair and objective, one benefit Osgood could bring to the game even if a bit rusty is his ability to slow things down. He's much better about absorbing the puck and controlling the pace than Howard at this point. All season long, we've seen a more furious pace to the onslaught in front of Howard, but much of that has to do with Howard's struggles with rebound and puck control in general. Whereas many goalies smother the puck up on the first shot, Howard often gives up multiple rebounds, forcing him to make 2-3 saves and creating scrambles in our end.

(Note: the following isn't an argument to put Osgood in, so much as discussion on why I thought Osgood should've been given more of a chance to be the guy heading into the playoffs)

I think Howard certainly can improve on his weak points in time, but the youthful issues play into why I didn't like the idea of him starting in the playoffs as a rookie. Many have said for awhile that his technical shortcomings as a goaltender would be more evident in the playoffs as the intensity picks up and guys zero in on a goalies weaknesses and tendencies. Despite some strong moments at times, more often than not, this has been true. Again, I don't hold it against Howard as he is a rookie; it's just why I thought Osgood should've been given more chances to get going so he could lead the way again in the post-season. I simply saw no harm in giving Howard more time to learn what it takes to play at the NHL level; it's no knock on Howard as a goalie as he's just a rookie.

Ultimately, 99% of the time I believe that the benefits of a veteran netminder in the playoffs outweigh the benefits of going with the younger regular season hotshot. Veterans know what it takes to win in the playoffs and how to help control the pace of those game. They oftentimes learn by watching and experiencing day to day how other veterans do it first.

A lot of people thought it was stupid to go with Vernon over Osgood in '97 as Osgood was the younger hotshot at that time, and while he had his fair share of doubters too (which I still believe are solely the result of game 7 against San Jose in his rookie year, enough said...), many questioned the move. I think Vernon's regular season stats were a bit rough (he had a sub-.900 save percentage if memory serves me correctly...), definitely not as strong as Osgood's who played more as well. But Vernon was the veteran who had already won a Cup, and he went on to win the Cup for us again and the Conn Smythe as well.

I have little doubt that watching Vernon win that Cup in 1997 was the biggest difference maker in Osgood's career. He was a strong goalie technically, already an All Star and Vezina runner-up before he was 25, but regular season stats and records oftentimes have little to do with postseason stats and records, let alone the sound mental approach needed to go the distance in the playoffs. As he's said again and again, he learned all that watching Vernon.

So for me, I think Osgood should have started in the playoffs, no matter how the regular season went down. However, that doesn't mean I think he should go in at this point. I mean this as no knock to Jimmy Howard as a goalie, and I'm not just backtracking because he hasn't been great in the playoffs. I've said it all along for the same reasons I'm reiterating now. And while I don't hold anything against Howard, the experience of watching him thus far in the post-season is certainly affirming of my previous thoughts on going with the veteran in the post-season. Worst case scenario you have to go to Howard if Osgood screws up. Much better to let the veteran battle with the emotions of getting pulled than a rookie who doesn't show up, and if a rookie can't get it done after Osgood, it's not going to be nearly as (potentially) scarring to him as being the starter from game 1 has potential to be.

Once in a blue moon there's a Patrick Roy who can do it all as a rookie, but it's RARE as can be. From all I've seen through the years, you're far more likely to burn a guy out by putting too much pressure on him early on. I think Howard's got a lot of skill and potential, but to say I'm not concerned for how this could end up affecting his career would be a lie. Again, far too many goalies come on strong only to burn out fast. I suppose there's nothing to be done about it now, I'm just saying...he's a good kid, and I've loved seeing him prove so many wrong this year. Unfortunately, I know all too well how quickly people will turn against you as well...

[cupforwings 138]

It's not how many saves you make. It's when and how you make them. Howard gave up two soft goals in the final 15:20, killing the Wings' momentum. The first let the Sharks tie the game, and gave them much more life. This put the Wings back on their heels as the Sharks increased their attack. Howard gave up another bad goal with only 7:23 remaining, putting the Sharks into a 4-3 lead with little time left in the game.

Your kidding right? If your not, this has to be one of he dumbest posts I have ever read.... to say that a 5 on 3 PP goal was soft is ******* stupid, so ******* stupid... Nothing about that was soft. It was in the crease, under 5 bodies, and it took a bad bounce. And how in the world is a 3 on 1 a goal soft? especially when he made the first save and his defenseman couldn't clear the rebound... It was a 3 on 1... that's not a soft goal, bro. You act like goalies don't give up any goals. Even Luongo and Marty give up goals, often times weaker than those.. Jimmy had a great game last night and kept us in. But you blaming Howard for 2 soft goals is ridiculous and shows you know nothing about hockey, at all....

[gcom007 1,465]

Hey... I'm one of those 'Cujo got a bad rap' people. I'd LOVE to see Cujo as our back-up right now.

Did he ever. That was a low-point in terms of class for the Wings without a doubt, and it's a shame because Cujo is as classy and as good of a guy as they come off the ice. The guy may have signed a huge $8 million/year deal, but I know for a fact that he was giving millions of it away to charitable causes. He was a selfless guy with his money, and I imagine that the only reason he negotiated the deals he did was to better be able to help those in need, again, as I know for a fact he wasn't spending a tremendous amount of that money on himself. He was just a good human being and a damn good goalie. He was the only thing we had going for us in the playoffs before the lockout ended his time here. It's a shame it had to end as it did for him.

[Guest mjtm77]

Mabey Ozzi should ref the game?

[Broken 16 381]

I don't agree with much of Eva's analysis and I don't think Osgood should go in, but one thing he touched on that has been true in 6 of his 9 playoff starts is that he hasn't made timely saves to help us attain and maintain a lead. I do believe that's more important than some acknowledge. And to be fair and objective, one benefit Osgood could bring to the game even if a bit rusty is his ability to slow things down. He's much better about absorbing the puck and controlling the pace than Howard at this point. All season long, we've seen a more furious pace to the onslaught in front of Howard, but much of that has to do with Howard's struggles with rebound and puck control in general. Whereas many goalies smother the puck up on the first shot, Howard often gives up multiple rebounds, forcing him to make 2-3 saves and creating scrambles in our end.

Not to disregard the rest of your post, but I had to trim that sucker.

The problem with your analysis is that you are working under the assumption that Osgood faced the same quality of chances last season. Jimmy is seeing way more quality rubber than Osgood did last season and Jimmy is still keeping us in games till the bitter end on most nights. I honestly don't know how you can expect much more from your goaltender. Seriously.

IF the Wings get eliminated, it will be the first time in a long time that nobody will be able to bring up goaltending without looking like a complete idiot.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Broken 16

[mmamolo 287]

Your kidding right? If your not, this has to be one of he dumbest posts I have ever read.... to say that a 5 on 3 PP goal was soft is ******* stupid, so ******* stupid... Nothing about that was soft. It was in the crease, under 5 bodies, and it took a bad bounce. And how in the world is a 3 on 1 a goal soft? especially when he made the first save and his defenseman couldn't clear the rebound... It was a 3 on 1... that's not a soft goal, bro. You act like goalies don't give up any goals. Even Luongo and Marty give up goals, often times weaker than those.. Jimmy had a great game last night and kept us in. But you blaming Howard for 2 soft goals is ridiculous and shows you know nothing about hockey, at all....

This is spot on. Completely, 100% accurate. Anyone who thinks Howard is @ fault for either of the last two goals is borderline handicapped.

[Dominator2005 558]

Run Forest, run...

HIT LILJA, HIT...

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

Penaty ratio: 11 to 4.

Yep, that's J-Ho's fault.

Ozzie would've done much better.

Cujo, too...much better.

Riiiight.

[sliverck 3]

You know what, I like his thinking here. Putting Osgood in net now would lessen the likely of Howard getting railroaded out of town when they get swept by the Sharks. There are a few reasons the Wings lost this one. They can't win a face off to save their lives, they can't stay out of the penalty box and these fancy sticks break when somebody looks at them funny. Notice that Howard is not one of the reasons, not even close.

[Broken 16 381]

You know what, I like his thinking here. Putting Osgood in net now would lessen the likely of Howard getting railroaded out of town when they get swept by the Sharks. There are a few reasons the Wings lost this one. They can't win a face off to save their lives, they can't stay out of the penalty box and these fancy sticks break when somebody looks at them funny. Notice that Howard is not one of the reasons, not even close.

Please tell me you forgot the sarcasm tag... Howard might be the brightest spot on this team right now. Why would anyone run him out of town?

Edited May 3, 2010 by Broken 16

[WingsallTheway 383]

Ouch on the -27 lol

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Please tell me you forgot the sarcasm tag... Howard might be the brightest spot on this team right now. Why would anyone run him out of town?

Because apparently the Wings are going to get swept by the Sharks.

[RedLightGoesOn 81]

Win or lose Jimmy stays, he needs this experience if we expect him to be our goaltender for years to come. The 4th goal he let in was tough, I would have loved to see him stop it but you have to respect the first shot. I think he gets better as series go on, its always a new challenge with a new series and the Sharks are tough because of their skilled players. Our D needs to stop that triangle play and also find a way to keep the crease clear/ give Jimmy a clean vision of the puck.

[Opie 308]

All Good points made by you

I guess I carried my thoughts of others posts into my reply to you, but I have a hard time in any way shape of form seeing either of the two Red Wings' netminders changing the outcome of the series.

At this point in time it is up to the skaters.

Last series was goalie vs goalie, this is pp vs pk and skaters vs skaters.

Neither Nabby nor Howie have looked unbeatable, but neither (obviously Nabby) have cost their team the game!

[sliverck 3]

Please tell me you forgot the sarcasm tag... Howard might be the brightest spot on this team right now. Why would anyone run him out of town?

I think my sarcasm was obvious enough. This post is the reason people might run Howard out of town, how can someone serious blame what's happening on Howard unless they don't watch the games? Sure he has been shaky at times and he needs to invest in pads that don't catapult pucks off of them but I guarantee that if Osgood was in goal for this last game the Wings get destroyed. I just don't see enough heart in the team right now and I don't think there is a way to coach around that.

[stevkrause 1,247]

threads like this are the reason crack cocaine is illegal - see what it does?

[kolo 10]

STRAIGHT TROLL, GTFO