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Get ready folks, hitting is about to exit our game


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#81 David

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:11 PM

To me this part makes it sound like you can't target the head at all:
Rule 48 Illegal Check to the Head
48.1 Illegal Check to the Head A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principle point of contact is notpermitted.

Sounds like you can't blindside and/or make the head the principle point of contact.


I take that more to mean "A lateral hit to an opponent where the head is targeted, etc. or a blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted, etc."

Therefore, only on lateral or blind side hits is targeting the head or making the head principle point of contact illegal.

Isn't that how English works?

#82 esteef

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:14 PM

what rule? If you are talking about the blindside rule it is primary head contact, which this was not, or head targeted, which by rule of hight physics wouldn't be the case

You say it's not primary head contact, I say it is. Whatever. The tall comment was simply addressing your stance that taller players should somehow get some sort of supposed leniency because they are tall. They don't and they shouldn't.

Personally I could care less if he's suspended or not, but I suspect he will be.

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#83 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:15 PM

I'm 6 foot and have never hit anyone in the head, when I'd go to make hits on smaller guys I'd get low and blast them in the ribs or hip check them in the waist or crank them in the chest. I'm not even that good at hockey, but if I was able to do it, i'm 100% positive these guys can do it, especially if they have these guys lined up for over ten feet and they have no idea they are coming.

edit: i lied, I have hit one guy in the head, but he was 2 inches taller than me, but the f***** slashed my ankles earlier and cheap-shotted our captain.

I always threw hipchecks too, but i usually was hitting guys bigger than me, and conversely i had my head down a few times and got caught in the head, i didn't think anything of it, none of the hits were charging or elbowing, i always skated with my head up in fear of a big hit because i was a major agitator, you just gotta be aware out there

Edited by jollymania, 05 November 2010 - 01:17 PM.

"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#84 sleepwalker

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:27 PM

Elbow to the head, eh? Looks like a lot of people here failed anatomy class in grade school. I'll give it my best shot...


OK kids, the elbow is the thing about halfway down your arm that bends back and forth. (the part Joe had tucked in during the hit)

The shoulder is the part at the top of your arm by your head that pivots, and that your arm hangs down from.


Say it with me class... Joes SHOULDER hit the head. ;)

#85 Konnan511

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:36 PM

I take that more to mean "A lateral hit to an opponent where the head is targeted, etc. or a blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted, etc."

Therefore, only on lateral or blind side hits is targeting the head or making the head principle point of contact illegal.

Isn't that how English works?

To me, it says a lateral/blindside hit to the head OR a hit where the head is targeted OR the principle point of contact is the head.

Elbow to the head, eh? Looks like a lot of people here failed anatomy class in grade school. I'll give it my best shot...


OK kids, the elbow is the thing about halfway down your arm that bends back and forth. (the part Joe had tucked in during the hit)

The shoulder is the part at the top of your arm by your head that pivots, and that your arm hangs down from.


Say it with me class... Joes SHOULDER hit the head. ;)

Are you making this post after only reading the comments on the first page, or are you making this post after reading once Jolly posted the video where it shows it wasn't an elbow and everybody on both sides agree it's not an elbow?

I always threw hipchecks too, but i usually was hitting guys bigger than me, and conversely i had my head down a few times and got caught in the head, i didn't think anything of it, none of the hits were charging or elbowing, i always skated with my head up in fear of a big hit because i was a major agitator, you just gotta be aware out there

I hated little s***s like you haha. But the point of my post, it's not hard to avoid hitting someone in the head and still being able to hit someone with a devastating check. The only person I ever hit in the head was someone taller than me, but I did it on purpose, all the guys a half shorter than me I'd just bend over and throw hip checks in their guts or bend down and launch myself into their chests to make them flyyyy.
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#86 newfy

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:40 PM

Posted Image
Perron's vision had he had his head up

Well this picture proves that it wasnt a blindside and this is after thornton had skated out of the box a bit. Definitely not an east west hit.

If he gets suspended for this then I think Gary has successfully turned the NHL into an NBA league. He already hypes up players instead of teams, now there is gonig to be no contact and he has already tried getting rid of fighting. f*** Bettman

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#87 Konnan511

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:42 PM

Well this picture proves that it wasnt a blindside and this is after thornton had skated out of the box a bit. Definitely not an east west hit.

If he gets suspended for this then I think Gary has successfully turned the NHL into an NBA league. He already hypes up players instead of teams, now there is gonig to be no contact and he has already tried getting rid of fighting. f*** Bettman

Suspensions have nothing to do with Bettman. The NHL has it's own disciplinary team. Stop hating just to hate.

Breaking News: Darren Dreger
Thornton hearing has ended. Decision on sup discipline being made.
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HankthaTank
- Squirrels, they hate to be thrown. / Why is the magical unicorn named Brian... Jedi - I just downloaded the "kids" book, "Go the F--k to Sleep" as narrated by Samuel L. Jackson on my kindle. I am now ready to be a daddy. / *Checks Router* No, I'm positive I didn't hit the "Wings Defense Sucks" button. Electrophile - I'm just glad the Wings were able to win despite the Curse of Brian. ACallToArms - I think Trey needs to put something about payroll tax and deferred income in his sig... Edicius - I'd rather [have] a soundbite of me saying "I like (man sausage)" rather than "I like Crosby".

#88 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:48 PM

I hated little s***s like you haha. But the point of my post, it's not hard to avoid hitting someone in the head and still being able to hit someone with a devastating check. The only person I ever hit in the head was someone taller than me, but I did it on purpose, all the guys a half shorter than me I'd just bend over and throw hip checks in their guts or bend down and launch myself into their chests to make them flyyyy.

I played the game extremely fair though, i only took about 5 penalties in all of my years of hs hockey, I drew probably close to 60-70, usually slashes form goalies or dmen when i would stand in front of the net ala homer on the pp. Also 30 hits a game, like super-helm.

Suspensions have nothing to do with Bettman. The NHL has it's own disciplinary team. Stop hating just to hate.

Breaking News: Darren Dreger
Thornton hearing has ended. Decision on sup discipline being made.

dreger is reaching his climax, if thornton is suspended he is gonna blow
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
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#89 wingfan13

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:48 PM

This is another hit where although I don't think there should be a penalty, Joe Thornton should show some respect for the player he is about to hit. YES Perron should should have his head up, yes it was a suicide pass but Thornton knows what the outcome is about to be. This is just lack of respect knowing you are going to cream a guy who doesn't know it is coming.
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#90 Konnan511

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:51 PM

I played the game extremely fair though, i only took about 5 penalties in all of my years of hs hockey, I drew probably close to 60-70, usually slashes form goalies or dmen when i would stand in front of the net ala homer on the pp. Also 30 hits a game, like super-helm.


dreger is reaching his climax, if thornton is suspended he is gonna blow

I loved the agitators on our team, hated them on other teams. And by "fair" you mean, w/o getting caught ;)

DD has his "O" face ready and primed.
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- Squirrels, they hate to be thrown. / Why is the magical unicorn named Brian... Jedi - I just downloaded the "kids" book, "Go the F--k to Sleep" as narrated by Samuel L. Jackson on my kindle. I am now ready to be a daddy. / *Checks Router* No, I'm positive I didn't hit the "Wings Defense Sucks" button. Electrophile - I'm just glad the Wings were able to win despite the Curse of Brian. ACallToArms - I think Trey needs to put something about payroll tax and deferred income in his sig... Edicius - I'd rather [have] a soundbite of me saying "I like (man sausage)" rather than "I like Crosby".

#91 jollymania

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:54 PM

I loved the agitators on our team, hated them on other teams. And by "fair" you mean, w/o getting caught ;)

DD has his "O" face ready and primed.

well fair by not getting caught to an extent, one prime example was when i knew the raf weren't looking and i shot this kid's stick down the ice and the next shift he boarded me and was ejected, hahaha, but i never threw cheapshots or dove
"I assure you the hits along the boards he(Aaron Downey) constantly threw SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SHIFT were far more damaging hits that what Kronwall throws."
- uk_redwing
HockeyArchive Twitter

#92 Konnan511

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:00 PM

well fair by not getting caught to an extent, one prime example was when i knew the raf weren't looking and i shot this kid's stick down the ice and the next shift he boarded me and was ejected, hahaha, but i never threw cheapshots or dove

Bwahaha. I always got PO'd when guys did that to me, it's just rude lol. I got so many butt ends in the ribs, I'm surprised I only had one broken rib. I hated divers more than guys who through none destructive cheapshots i.e. slashes, butt ends, etc. We had a diver on our team, no one liked it when he did it, but he drew a lot of penalties...

But on point, even though it may not have been intentional, the hit to the head, i still think the way the rule reads that even though you may not target the head, the fact that the head was the initial contact and was the point on contact, that falls under that rule of hitting to the head as I described a few posts earlier.
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HankthaTank
- Squirrels, they hate to be thrown. / Why is the magical unicorn named Brian... Jedi - I just downloaded the "kids" book, "Go the F--k to Sleep" as narrated by Samuel L. Jackson on my kindle. I am now ready to be a daddy. / *Checks Router* No, I'm positive I didn't hit the "Wings Defense Sucks" button. Electrophile - I'm just glad the Wings were able to win despite the Curse of Brian. ACallToArms - I think Trey needs to put something about payroll tax and deferred income in his sig... Edicius - I'd rather [have] a soundbite of me saying "I like (man sausage)" rather than "I like Crosby".

#93 esteef

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:03 PM

To be fair, a still frame of a player midway between turning his head from back to front doesn't prove he was looking ahead, should've "had his head up" and therefore the hit was not blindside. But again, we'll see what the ruling is on this one.

esteef
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#94 sergei_is_still_a_wing

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:12 PM

did thortons shoulder hit the head? yes. was it blindside? NO. was there an elbow? NO.

I think the game misconduct was borderline but probably warranted. But no suspension.

and i HATE thorton. But he is probably 4-5 inches taller than perron. perron is a bit hunched over looking for the puck in his skates.

thorton doesn't explode into him or anything so i say let whats done be done and leave it alone.

I just feel that its getting to the point that when players are leaning over they are untouchable. and that shouldnt be. i.e. kronner on havlat. clean as a whistle.

#95 F.Michael

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:18 PM

And it really isn't that hard to bend over slightly to deliver a check to the chest, why are people arguing that it's hard to bend over to deliver a check? Have you ever played hockey? Just widen your stance and bend over a bit, it REALLY isn't that hard and I know all these guys know how to bend slightly. Height is just a lazy excuse, just like having a longer stick and getting a hooking call.

Couldn't disagree more with this.

I'm 6'4", and the last thing on my mind when I was about to make body contact with an opponent was 'oh - better to lower myself a tad so I don't run the risk of injuring the poor guy'...If anything I kept my elbows in, and tried to used my frame moreso than my shoulder so I wouldn't risk dislocation.

For a taller player to lower his stance would only increase the chance for a lower back injury, and - or being the guy getting knocked on his ass by altering his balance...As for widening your stance - I found that if I missed contact with my opponent I'd risk going knee-on-knee, and that ain't good either.

Guys just gotta keep their heads up.

Edited by F.Michael, 05 November 2010 - 02:25 PM.


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#96 esteef

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:41 PM

2 Games.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=339982

esteef
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#97 T.Low

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:50 PM

Couldn't disagree more with this.

I'm 6'4", and the last thing on my mind when I was about to make body contact with an opponent was 'oh - better to lower myself a tad so I don't run the risk of injuring the poor guy'...If anything I kept my elbows in, and tried to used my frame moreso than my shoulder so I wouldn't risk dislocation.

For a taller player to lower his stance would only increase the chance for a lower back injury, and - or being the guy getting knocked on his ass by altering his balance...As for widening your stance - I found that if I missed contact with my opponent I'd risk going knee-on-knee, and that ain't good either.

Guys just gotta keep their heads up.





I couldn't agree with you more.

It is going to be very difficult to take headshots out of the game. These are trained professionals, the most talented athletic best skaters and fastest thinking hockey players in the world. They already know that the NHL is clamping down on headshots but can't figure out how to hit a guy at full game speed intensity without getting atleast a part of the mellon along the way.

Think aobut it: what does a player's stance look like when he has the puck and is on a rush up the ice? He has to lead with his head! Therefore, the head is going to be vulnerable to a hit.

The defensemen that is rushing over to cutoff that player's lane also has to lead with his head. But even if he targets the puck carrier's shoulder or chest, the law's of momentum are likely going to cause the head to be impacted also.

There is an ******* in my league that is pretty heavy. I passed the puck but saw that he was hell bent on still taking a run at me. I learned to hit as a tailback and strong safety in football, so just as he was about to make contact with me I got really low and exploded into him. I hit him right in the chest; but his head flung down on impact and recoiled back after the hit and he landed on his head, skates up in the air. As low as i got, it still impacted his head.

Physiologically speaking, it's going to be difficult to take head contact out of the game. This is going to be a mess for a while.


Edit: The solution is to somehow minimize the shoulder and elbow pads so they are not weapons. If a player feels he will not get hurt at all by creaming somebody, he will not think twice about it. But if he knows it's going to hurt him too, he'll back off a lot. Like in th old days of the NFL when everyone arm tackled. Go back to Chelios/Shanahan style pads or something of that sort, with leather helmets. Flame on.

Edited by T.Low, 05 November 2010 - 02:57 PM.


#98 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:52 PM

2 Games.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=339982

esteef

I thought one game would have sufficed since Thornton was assessed the game misconduct.

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#99 esteef

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:55 PM

I thought one game would have sufficed since Thornton was assessed the game misconduct.

The game misconduct is automatic with the major penalty.

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#100 Howard He Do It?!

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:59 PM

The game misconduct is automatic with the major penalty.

esteef

I never said it wasn't. I still think he should have only been suspended for one game.

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