Is San Jose more talented than us?

[Guest blueadams]

I know it's not perfect, but I was trying to be as objective as possible here, so the 'winners' of comparisions - as well as the order of rankings - were all determined by regular season point production.

At first glance...it appears as if San Jose's lone advantage is forwards #3-#7 (Niemi's got a slight advantage over Howard, but that's close enough to not matter).

Does that lone advantage - top-tier forward depth - say anything significant about our roster structure?

Forwards:

1) P. Datsyuk v. J. Pavelski - Detroit

2) H. Zetterberg v. P. Marleau - Detroit

3) J. Franzen v. L. Coture - San Jose

4) D. Cleary v. R. Clowe - San Jose

5) T. Bertuzzi v. J. Thornton - San Jose

6) V. Filppula v. D. Heatley - San Jose

7) T. Holmstrom v. D. Setoguchi - San Jose

8) J. Hudler v. T. Mitchell - Detroit

9) D. Helm v. J. Mayers - Detroit

10) P. Eaves v. K. Wellwood - Detroit

11) J. Abdelkader v. S. Nichol - Detroit

12) D. Miller/K. Draper v. B. Eager/B. Ferriero - Detroit

Defensemen:

1) N. Lidstrom v. D. Boyle - Detroit

2) B. Rafalski v. J. Demers - Detroit

3) N. Kronwall v. M. Vlasic - Detroit

4) B. Stuart v. D. Murray - Detroit

5) J. Ericsson v. I. White - Detroit

6) R. Salei v. J. Wallin - Detroit

Goalies:

1) J. Howard v. A. Niemi - San Jose.

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

Ian White is better then Ericsson. Wellwood is better then Eaves.

[skyphoenix 153]

This is in my opinion...

Forwards:

1) P. Datsyuk v. J. Pavelski - Detroit

2) H. Zetterberg v. P. Marleau - Detroit

3) J. Franzen v. L. Couture - Detroit

4) D. Cleary v. R. Clowe - San Jose

5) T. Bertuzzi v. J. Thornton - San Jose

6) V. Filppula v. D. Heatley - San Jose

7) T. Holmstrom v. D. Setoguchi - San Jose

8) J. Hudler v. T. Mitchell - Detroit

9) D. Helm v. J. Mayers - Detroit

10) P. Eaves v. K. Wellwood - San Jose

11) J. Abdelkader v. S. Nichol - Detroit

12) D. Miller/K. Draper v. B. Eager/B. Ferriero - Detroit

Defensemen:

1) N. Lidstrom v. D. Boyle - Detroit

2) B. Rafalski v. J. Demers - Detroit

3) N. Kronwall v. M. Vlasic - Detroit

4) B. Stuart v. D. Murray - Detroit

5) J. Ericsson v. I. White - San Jose

6) R. Salei v. J. Wallin - San Jose

Goalies:

1) J. Howard v. A. Niemi - Tie.

Couture is great for a rookie, but I don't think he's proven he's any better than Franzen yet.

[SpIkE 17]

Howard is having a much better playoffs right now than Niemi, stats wise. Wings need to raise that GAA.

[VM1138 1,921]

Howard is having a much better playoffs right now than Niemi, stats wise. Wings need to raise that GAA.

Yeah, Niemi hasn't been spectacular. The Wings have only gotten a few good shots that San Jose's defense have cleared. Howard, on the other hand, has had two amazing games and a really good first round.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Ericsson is not better then Ian White

[Theophany 110]

Why in God's name is a second line player being compared to Datsyuk?

Should be Heatley, Marleau, or Thornton compared to Datsyuk, and Pavelski should be compared to a guy like Filppula (which he would win every time and it's not even close).

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

yes, they are.

/thread

[Jericho613 74]

1) P. Datsyuk v. J. Pavelski - Detroit

2) H. Zetterberg v. P. Marleau - Detroit

3) J. Franzen v. L. Coture - Detroit and I don't even like Franzen

4) D. Cleary v. R. Clowe - San Jose

5) T. Bertuzzi v. J. Thornton - San Jose

6) V. Filppula v. D. Heatley - San Jose

7) T. Holmstrom v. D. Setoguchi - San Jose

8) J. Hudler v. T. Mitchell - Detroit

9) D. Helm v. J. Mayers - Detroit

10) P. Eaves v. K. Wellwood - Detroit

11) J. Abdelkader v. S. Nichol - Detroit

12) D. Miller/K. Draper v. B. Eager/B. Ferriero - Detroit

Defensemen:

1) N. Lidstrom v. D. Boyle - Detroit no question

2) B. Rafalski v. J. Demers - Detroit

3) N. Kronwall v. M. Vlasic - Detroit no question

4) B. Stuart v. D. Murray - Detroit

5) J. Ericsson v. I. White - San Jose

6) R. Salei v. J. Wallin - Detroit

Goalies:

1) J. Howard v. A. Niemi - Detroit

[Mors 201]

If anything, you should be comparing players by salary, not by position in the lineup. Comparing Bertuzzi at $1.5 million to Thornton at $7 million is ridiculous.

[Theophany 110]

If anything, you should be comparing players by salary, not by position in the lineup. Comparing Bertuzzi at $1.5 million to Thornton at $7 million is ridiculous.

Good point.

For those that want to be intelligent about this, here's the list:

Datsyuk vs Heatley: Detroit

Zetterberg vs Thornton: Detroit

Franzen vs Marleau: San Jose

Filppula vs Pavelski: San Jose

Hudler vs Clowe: San Jose

Cleary vs Setoguchi: San Jose

Bertuzzi vs Mitchell: Detroit

Holmstrom vs Couture: San Jose

Modano vs Eager: San Jose

Draper vs Ferrerio: Detroit

Helm vs Nichol: Detroit

Abdelkader vs Wellwood: San Jose

Eaves vs Mayers: Detroit

Miller vs Desjardins: Detroit

Lidstrom vs Boyle: Detroit

Rafalski vs Vlasic: Detroit

Stuart vs White: San Jose

Kronwall vs Wallin: Detroit

Salei vs Murray: San Jose

Ericsson vs Huskins: San Jose

Kindl vs Demers: San Jose

Osgood vs Niemi: San Jose

Howard vs Niittymaki: Detroit

San Jose comes out ahead by one, by my reckoning.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Why should this matter?

This isn't the NBA. You can't win on talent alone. We've seen the Wings lose plenty of times to teams we were more talented than at pretty much every position. Why can't we do the same thing to someone else?

Will beats skill in hockey, and SJ is not that much more talented than us for the Wings to lose this series regardless of that fact.

We're just too lazy.

[Man Behind #91 1]

Detroit vs San Jose: Detroit

Bounces were not going our way and if they start bye bye San jose thanks for playing!

[Guest blueadams]

Why should this matter?

This isn't the NBA. You can't win on talent alone. We've seen the Wings lose plenty of times to teams we were more talented than at pretty much every position. Why can't we do the same thing to someone else?

Will beats skill in hockey, and SJ is not that much more talented than us for the Wings to lose this series regardless of that fact.

We're just too lazy.

good point, on this, and for the guy comparing by salaries.

[eva unit zero 271]

For those of you comparing player to player...

It shouldn't be based on points or salary. It should be based on the most obvious determination of where a player falls in his team's structure. Even strength average ice time. Otherwise you're comparing Ed Jovanovski and his $6.5m salary as Phoenix's top defenseman, when in reality he is their #6.

[Buppy 1,720]

For those of you comparing player to player...

It shouldn't be based on points or salary. It should be based on the most obvious determination of where a player falls in his team's structure. Even strength average ice time. Otherwise you're comparing Ed Jovanovski and his $6.5m salary as Phoenix's top defenseman, when in reality he is their #6.

Are you saying Hudler is our 13th forward and Ericsson our top defenseman?

[azshark 1]

Detroit vs San Jose: Detroit

Bounces were not going our way and if they start bye bye San jose thanks for playing!

This photo reminds is for all Red Wing fans who make posts like above. People...take off your blinders!

Edited May 4, 2011 by azshark

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Good point.

For those that want to be intelligent about this, here's the list:

Datsyuk vs Heatley: Detroit

Zetterberg vs Thornton: Detroit

Franzen vs Marleau: San Jose

Filppula vs Pavelski: San Jose

Hudler vs Clowe: San Jose

Cleary vs Setoguchi: San Jose

Bertuzzi vs Mitchell: Detroit

Holmstrom vs Couture: San Jose

Modano vs Eager: San Jose

Draper vs Ferrerio: Detroit

Helm vs Nichol: Detroit

Abdelkader vs Wellwood: San Jose

Eaves vs Mayers: Detroit

Miller vs Desjardins: Detroit

Lidstrom vs Boyle: Detroit

Rafalski vs Vlasic: Detroit

Stuart vs White: San Jose

Kronwall vs Wallin: Detroit

Salei vs Murray: San Jose

Ericsson vs Huskins: San Jose

Kindl vs Demers: San Jose

Osgood vs Niemi: San Jose

Howard vs Niittymaki: Detroit

San Jose comes out ahead by one, by my reckoning.

You forgot an important one...

Babcock vs McLellan: Detroit

[ami 273]

sharks are cheapest team in the nhl at the moment. wings has always been having problem playing against cheap teams.

Edited May 4, 2011 by ami

[Theophany 110]

You forgot an important one...

Babcock vs McLellan: Detroit

True. So by my math, that means that each team is even, ergo it's all about effort and luck.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

sharks are cheapest team in the nhl at the moment. wings has always been having problem playing against cheap teams.

What does this mean? I think not payroll. You mean cheap-shots I suppose. There is a little bit of that with the ice washes aimed at Howard I suppose, but otherwise I don't see a case where "cheap" play is costing the wings the series.

The Wings have trouble playing SJ and staying out of the penalty box - I agree there is alot of bulls*** involved in this, but have to admit it is not the reason the wings lose games to SJ in the end.

IMO the teams are fairly evenly talented - obviously - and play a similar style. Wings blew home ice the last few weeks of the season, and have trouble matching up with SJ - such are the draws and perils in the POs. Will be interesting to see what happens in the 2 games at the Joe.

[ami 273]

<...> There is a little bit of that with the ice washes aimed at Howard I suppose, but otherwise I don't see a case where "cheap" play is costing the wings the series.

<...>

Last year antics by setoguchi, this year by paveski (sp?) - are all cheap in my books.

I'm not saying those are the main or the only reasons Wings lost last year and are loosing now. Wings need to show up. If they can, cheap or not wouldn't matter.

Anyway, as I said Wings have a history being not very successful against cheap teams, e.g. Ducks.

Edited May 4, 2011 by ami

[Theophany 110]

Last year antics by setoguchi, this year by paveski (sp?) - are all cheap in my books.

I'm not saying those are the main or the only reasons Wings lost last year and are loosing now. Wings need to show up. If they can, cheap or not wouldn't matter.

Anyway, as I said Wings have a history being not very successful against cheap teams, e.g. Ducks.

You literally said that the Sharks are the cheapest team in the NHL, though.

That's some pretty huge hyperbole when you're pointing out stuff that the Wings do as well (diving).

[Broken 16 381]

You literally said that the Sharks are the cheapest team in the NHL, though.

That's some pretty huge hyperbole when you're pointing out stuff that the Wings do as well (diving).

It's not all black and white either. All teams have guys that dive but only a chosen few teams have perfected it. You gotta know just when to grab your face and just when to quiver your lip. Tears never hurt.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Broken 16

[Theophany 110]

It's not all black and white either. All teams have guys that dive but only a chosen few teams have perfected it. You gotta know just when to grab your face and just when to quiver your lip. Tears never hurt.

Oh I know. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in saying that Pavelski and Setoguchi dive and that makes them the cheapest team in the NHL.