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Changes in the offseason

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On the other hand, I find unrealistic possibilities extremely boring as they will never come to fruition, so take your optimism and annoy some other people.

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Anything is possible... some people seem to forget this. Has Holland had any interest in doing this thus far? No. Certainly, certain circumstances could arise that make this kind of move a possibility for ANY team. Losing Rafalski and possibly losing Lidstrom also, are such circumstances. If you think, given these scenarios, that sending an offer sheet to an RFA is impossible/improbable, then you may need to check your head.

yeah, lets not let something as silly as facts get in the way...

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/05/red_wings_ken_holland_not_apt.html

point. set. match.

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Anything is possible... some people seem to forget this. Has Holland had any interest in doing this thus far? No. Certainly, certain circumstances could arise that make this kind of move a possibility for ANY team. Losing Rafalski and possibly losing Lidstrom also, are such circumstances. If you think, given these scenarios, that sending an offer sheet to an RFA is impossible/improbable, then you may need to check your head.

So Holland says he's not going to be stupid and waste vital assets on RFAs. The GMs of said RFAs say they'll match any and all offers. Yet, the realists on LGW are the ones who need to check their heads?

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Yeah but wouldn't it be smart of Holland to send an offer sheet on someone like Weber (not expecting to sign him) and force Nashville to pony up and spend more of their cap on him than they really want, in essence using money to sign him that they would like to use to sign Suter next year? Sort of like what San Jose did last year with Chicago and Jalmerson. In the end they had to pay way too much to keep him and ended up losing players they likely would have liked to keep. There's more than one reason to send offer sheets to guys. That said, I tend to agree with everyone here who suggests there's no way that the Wings outbid Nashville for Weber without breaking the bank, which would be dumb and not a good idea in the long run.

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So Holland says he's not going to be stupid and waste vital assets on RFAs. The GMs of said RFAs say they'll match any and all offers. Yet, the realists on LGW are the ones who need to check their heads?

Careful on the generalization. Nashville's GM, David Poile, stated that he would match any offer sheet for Shea Weber.

It could be assumed that a lot of GM's would do this, but let's not assume anything's impossible like some LGW'ers do. There is a difference between impossible and improbable.

Being unrealistic is stating that we will trade Hudler for Ovechkin.... Unrealistic is not saying there is a chance (even if it is minimal) that an offer sheet is submitted if we lose Lidstrom as well.

And also, classic to many arguments of this nature, people immediately put words in my mouth as I never directly stated we would send offer sheets to these players. Is it impossible to trade for the rights to Bogo or so on? No.

Especially in the case of my original post on this topic... I stated that with Atlanta moving, some of their RFA's may not want to move with the team to icy Winnipeg and the uncertainty that lies within the organization (management, coaching, etc). People seem to just bounce back to the Shea Webber scenario.

Edited by SwedeLundin77

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I think the vast majority here would agree with me...

also realism ≠ pessimism

There are plenty of UFA and trade options to discuss, so why dilute realistic discussions with impossible scenarios?

Well were at it, lets discuss the option of trading Howard for Ryan Miller straight up... come on now... :rolleyes:

Classic example of blowing up my original point. You're saying trying to trade for an RFA or send an offer sheet is equal to a ridiculous trade? Come on now.

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Classic example of blowing up my original point. You're saying trying to trade for an RFA or send an offer sheet is equal to a ridiculous trade? Come on now.

You never mentioned trading for one of them in your original post... you said to sign them to an offer sheet. Those are COMPLETELY different things... and I was just using that as an example of how going out of the realm of reality just for the sake of something to talk about is not relevant, I was not comparing the two, don't take my words out of context, just because you're grasping at straws here...

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Anything is possible... some people seem to forget this. Has Holland had any interest in doing this thus far? No. Certainly, certain circumstances could arise that make this kind of move a possibility for ANY team. Losing Rafalski and possibly losing Lidstrom also, are such circumstances. If you think, given these scenarios, that sending an offer sheet to an RFA is impossible/improbable, then you may need to check your head.

Anything is not possible. This is elementary school where we tell the idiots that. Hudler for ovechkin is not possible. Detroit signing Weber this offseason is not possible. Is it possible that Detroit will target any RFAs this summer? No. Holland said he won't.

Anything is not possible. You sound like rotoworld or bleacherreport who say Weber or Doughty or Bogo are on our radar.

And yes, even if we had 20mil+ to spend in the offseason, even if we lost Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Zetterberg, it is improbable, nay, Impossible, that the Wings would sign any RFAs. Holland doesn't play that game.

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Anything is not possible. This is elementary school where we tell the idiots that. Hudler for ovechkin is not possible. Detroit signing Weber this offseason is not possible. Is it possible that Detroit will target any RFAs this summer? No. Holland said he won't.

Anything is not possible. You sound like rotoworld or bleacherreport who say Weber or Doughty or Bogo are on our radar.

And yes, even if we had 20mil+ to spend in the offseason, even if we lost Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and Zetterberg, it is improbable, nay, Impossible, that the Wings would sign any RFAs. Holland doesn't play that game.

For the last flipping time, I never said "offer sheet" in my original post. It was meant that we would obtain them by some means, and that means could be a trade, which is POSSIBLE. Not grasping at straws, I only mentioned offer sheet after the first unobservant person decided to interpret that out of my post.

Holland does not always do what he says he will. He is a smart GM, and will consider ALL AVENUES when the need arises or the opportunity presents itself.

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For the last flipping time, I never said "offer sheet" in my original post. It was meant that we would obtain them by some means, and that means could be a trade, which is POSSIBLE. Not grasping at straws, I only mentioned offer sheet after the first unobservant person decided to interpret that out of my post.

Holland does not always do what he says he will. He is a smart GM, and will consider ALL AVENUES when the need arises or the opportunity presents itself.

Well now that Winnipeg is looking to be a lock, we should target their RFA's. Perhaps some of them may not want to stay now that the team is relocating and perhaps the team won't battle as hard to keep them if an offer sheet comes in.

Zach Bogosian - $3,375,000

Andrew Ladd - $2,350,000

Blake Wheeler - $2,200,000

Anthony Stewart - $632,500

I wouldn't mind picking off any of these guys. Most notably Bogo, but he may be one player that Winnipeg will not let go, of course. Adding in any of the listed forwards would be good for the Wings as I think they'd fit in nicely and add a little size, youthful enthusiasm, and scoring depth.

What do you think, folks?

Edited by stevkrause

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I'll eat crow on that one. My point still stands that anything is possible and all the naysayers who want to say that it CAN'T can go stick their heads in the sand.

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I'll eat crow on that one. My point still stands that anything is possible and all the naysayers who want to say that it CAN'T can go stick their heads in the sand.

Oh, I'll never say it can't... it's perfectly legal by the CBA.

I just say it won't, for reasons also supported by the CBA (ability to match offer sheets, player having to accept offer sheets, ability to protect players from offer sheets with team-elected salary arbitration... etc)

It's more likely a RFA is traded in any case, whether the GM's name is Holland or not.

1. The team with the player usually gets a better deal than the compensatory picks--or one more suited to their needs--via trade

2. The team making the trade gets to choose what assets they send out, and obviously the trade guarantees they get the player (rather than another team potentially offer sheeting him first, or the current team matching).

Edited by Datsyerberger

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Wings need to let this offseason go. There's not enough out there. Save it for Matt Carle in 2012. He's my sleeper fantasy pick next year. 50 - 60 pt defenseman next year.

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Wings need to let this offseason go. There's not enough out there. Save it for Matt Carle in 2012. He's my sleeper fantasy pick next year. 50 - 60 pt defenseman next year.

...how many points did Wisniewski have last season again? :P

Andrew Ladd has always been a favorite of mine. I remember when he was in Chicago I was hoping the Wings would pull something to get him. Fast forward to this year, I didn't know he may $2.3M, it would probably cost at least $3M for him to even consider an offer sheet from any team, and that is too steep in draft pick compensation for him...oh well...

My wish list still remains: Wisniewski, Pitkanen (although he'd be pretty expensive,) J. Jokenin and/or Tanguay. (and Maybe a cheap Jovo to replace the greedy Ericsson)

Jokenin(Tanguay) - Datsyuk - Filppula

Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Franzen

Cleary - Helm - Eaves

Miller - Abdelkader - Holmstrom

Mursak

Lidstrom - Wisniewski

Kronwall - Pitkanen

Stuart - Jovo

Kindl

Howard

Legace (:lol: I put him down, because all we really need is a competent cheap back-up, and I happen to personally know he would sign for the absolute minimum, MINIMUM!)

If PItkanen would prove too expensive, then maybe Anton Babchuk who would be considerably cheaper...

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...how many points did Wisniewski have last season again? :P

Andrew Ladd has always been a favorite of mine. I remember when he was in Chicago I was hoping the Wings would pull something to get him. Fast forward to this year, I didn't know he may $2.3M, it would probably cost at least $3M for him to even consider an offer sheet from any team, and that is too steep in draft pick compensation for him...oh well...

My wish list still remains: Wisniewski, Pitkanen (although he'd be pretty expensive,) J. Jokenin and/or Tanguay. (and Maybe a cheap Jovo to replace the greedy Ericsson)

Jokenin(Tanguay) - Datsyuk - Filppula

Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Franzen

Cleary - Helm - Eaves

Miller - Abdelkader - Holmstrom

Mursak

Lidstrom - Wisniewski

Kronwall - Pitkanen

Stuart - Jovo

Kindl

Howard

Legace (:lol: I put him down, because all we really need is a competent cheap back-up, and I happen to personally know he would sign for the absolute minimum, MINIMUM!)

If PItkanen would prove too expensive, then maybe Anton Babchuk who would be considerably cheaper...

Pitkanen sucks for what he brings to the table. He can move the puck on the power play, and that's about it. He's horrendous defensively. Even 'Canes fans and bloggers will admit this.

Legace is terrible. That's why he currently has no job.

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Pitkanen sucks for what he brings to the table. He can move the puck on the power play, and that's about it. He's horrendous defensively. Even 'Canes fans and bloggers will admit this.

He's not a shut-down guy, but he's far from 'horrendous' defensively. Better than Rafi, Ericsson or Salei.

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Pitkanen sucks for what he brings to the table. He can move the puck on the power play, and that's about it. He's horrendous defensively. Even 'Canes fans and bloggers will admit this.

Legace is terrible. That's why he currently has no job.

Legace is far from terrible...

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Being unrealistic is stating that we will trade Hudler for Ovechkin.... Unrealistic is not saying there is a chance (even if it is minimal) that an offer sheet is submitted if we lose Lidstrom as well.

No, being unrealistic is stating that Washington will trade Ovechkin for Hudler. Holland BETTER ******* trade Hudler for Ovechkin if offered. Don't have the cap space? Make it. Waive Bertuzzi. Trade Stuart for a veteran stay-at-home guy and a decent pick. Between those three and the replacing players, the cap should be even or close to. Now we only need to get Washington to bite on an Ovechkin for Hudler deal. Would be even better if Hudler could be brought back as a UFA after Bert and Homer walk. Now back to your regularly scheduled reality.

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I say let people wish for what they dream of. What's it gonna hurt? If anything, it keeps the suicide rate down. :hehe:

On the other hand, I think staying in the organization would be a smart move for this season and hit the market next season. Do what we can in the organization, if we have to go out of it, do it. Save the money and look for a UFA next season.

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I say let people wish for what they dream of. What's it gonna hurt? If anything, it keeps the suicide rate down. :hehe:

On the other hand, I think staying in the organization would be a smart move for this season and hit the market next season. Do what we can in the organization, if we have to go out of it, do it. Save the money and look for a UFA next season.

The Wings have millions under the cap to replace Rafalski, and the only returning defensemen signed are Kronwall, Stuart, and Kindl. They WILL be picking someone up to replace Rafalski on the blueline, whether it be a forward signing and a forward trade for a defenseman, or a defenseman signing, or both. And that doesn't even factor in Lidstrom, Ericsson, and Salei. Lids likely returns, Salei is gone, and Ericsson is probably gone given his reported salary demands. So perhaps the Wings pick up two of the UFA defensemen available, say Pitkanen and Ehrhoff, and have a stocked blueline going forth. Lidstrom retires the same year Kronwall's deal expires, so Kronner's raise is covered by Nick's hit, and then a lesser defenseman (Smith?) is signed or brought in to fill the vacancy. Holmstrom also is likely retired at that point, opening up a good chunk of change up front which isn't terribly necessary for raises except for potentially Hudler, but could be used for a new acquisition.

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I see Pitkanen and Jokinen ending up in a same team. That way they can execute that "Karpat"-tactic on the PP. They're good childhood friends as well. :D

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Holmstrom also is likely retired at that point, opening up a good chunk of change up front which isn't terribly necessary for raises except for potentially Hudler, but could be used for a new acquisition.

I wasn't aware that you had such a well-developed sense of humor, eva.

Edited by Crymson
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I see Pitkanen and Jokinen ending up in a same team. That way they can execute that "Karpat"-tactic on the PP. They're good childhood friends as well. :D

whats karpat????? sounds cool

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I wasn't aware that you had such a well-developed sense of humor, eva.

So Hudler doesn't get a raise beyond his current deal if he hits a completely reasonable target of 60 points? Now you're getting a little silly.

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