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Changes in the offseason

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I understand your hard-on for Finnish players, but it is not worth busting the team's Cap situation purely in order to sign them.

If you don't like Ericsson, you'll hate Pitkanen. He's atrocious defensively. And Meech is not, repeat NOT an NHL-worthy defenseman anymore.

It was just a lil self-ironic joke.

I know Pitkanen very well, his play is very flegmatic. I'd rather get Wisniewski (cheaper, right-handed) first and then see what we need. I like Ericsson, just not for 2,5 mill.

The Meech thing was serious though. I believe he'd be a good 3rd pair guy or a great 7th d-man.

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It was just a lil self-ironic joke.

I know Pitkanen very well, his play is very flegmatic. I'd rather get Wisniewski (cheaper, right-handed) first and then see what we need. I like Ericsson, just not for 2,5 mill.

The Meech thing was serious though. I believe he'd be a good 3rd pair guy or a great 7th d-man.

I just don't think Wiz will take what we would offer... he's most likely going to get a big payday and I don't want the Wings overpaying for him (anything over 4/4.5), so unless he takes less to come home, I don't see the likelihood of him coming here very high...

Meech is gone... unless he signs a 2 way deal and plays for GR, he's likely moving on... Janik is an upgrade from Meech and even he is a fringe NHL'er

Edited by stevkrause

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I understand your hard-on for Finnish players, but it is not worth busting the team's Cap situation purely in order to sign them.

If you don't like Ericsson, you'll hate Pitkanen. He's atrocious defensively. And Meech is not, repeat NOT an NHL-worthy defenseman anymore.

Meech was the Griffs' best defenseman last season, not Smith. And everyone seems to want Smith in the top four. Meech is capable of NHL-level play at both ends, while Smith's defense is still a little shaky. So pick your own depth guy I guess, but cheaper and better is how I roll. Smith will be better soon, but he can keep playing in GR, and he won't be top six unless we have a thin defense. Meech is gone if he's not in the bigs. I'd like to keep both if possible.

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Meech was the Griffs' best defenseman last season, not Smith. And everyone seems to want Smith in the top four. Meech is capable of NHL-level play at both ends, while Smith's defense is still a little shaky. So pick your own depth guy I guess, but cheaper and better is how I roll. Smith will be better soon, but he can keep playing in GR, and he won't be top six unless we have a thin defense. Meech is gone if he's not in the bigs. I'd like to keep both if possible.

Smith will not be here unless he's playing everyday and Meech will not be here period... apples to oranges...

Smith needs major minutes to continue his development and unless he comes into camp like a beast and takes Kindl's job, he won't be on the roster, especially since he can be called up and is waiver exempt...

Meech may be a better AHL defenseman, but that doesn't always translate to NHL... Janik will almost certainly be our everyday 7th dman next year and he's earned it, unless Salei comes back at damn near league minimum and accepts a 7th dman role...

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Why the hell would anyone want Tanguay on their team? Is it 2003?

Uh....Tanguay 22 goals 47 assists $1.7M.... Hudler - 10 goals 27 assists $2.89M...Who the hell would want Hudler on their team? Is it Squirt AA? BTW Tanguay is putting up points like it was 2003 when he had 26G 41A. I would GLADLY give Tanguay the $3.0M and see him score 30+ playing with Datsyuk, Hudler has played with Datsyuk and still stinks...

Edited by LeftWinger

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I just don't think Wiz will take what we would offer... he's most likely going to get a big payday and I don't want the Wings overpaying for him (anything over 4/4.5), so unless he takes less to come home, I don't see the likelihood of him coming here very high...

I think free agency this year will be a lot more like last year than previous years with Bouwmeester and Campbell. I don't think there's a big "prize" like that, where everyone is bidding. Bieksa gets a lot of talk right now, but I think that will settle down.

Not necessarily directed at you, but I don't think the Wings are as stingy as some people seem to believe. We've been cap strapped the past couple summers but we're not now. History has shown that we will spend when we can. We don't need to bargain hunt and we don't need to try to dictate the market. I think Holland is too good to get frozen out of all the good free agents because 'we' think players are worth $1-2M less than what the market says they are.

With the cap going up as fast as it has been, you have to pay more for good free agents than you did two years ago. You can't give raises to playres who already have contracts, saving too much is a waste, and you can only have 23 players. That means the best way to spend the extra money is by drawing free agents.

I think you're pretty close on Wis's value (I'd say $4.5-5). We have a lot of money, more than any other contender and we're maybe the most respected organization in the league, and we really only have one major hole to fill. Shouldn't be any reason to think we aren't the front runner for at least one of the top available defensemen. Since Wis seems like both the best fit and pretty likely to see July 1st, I think there's a very good chance. Not to say that he (or anyone else) is a lock, but a lot of people seem really pessimistic when it comes to all the good FAs this year.

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Smith will not be here unless he's playing everyday and Meech will not be here period... apples to oranges...

Smith needs major minutes to continue his development and unless he comes into camp like a beast and takes Kindl's job, he won't be on the roster, especially since he can be called up and is waiver exempt...

Meech may be a better AHL defenseman, but that doesn't always translate to NHL... Janik will almost certainly be our everyday 7th dman next year and he's earned it, unless Salei comes back at damn near league minimum and accepts a 7th dman role...

If the Wings don't go after two higher-end defensemen, I think Meech is a good fit to take on a lot of Rafalski's duties in the Wings' top six. He's a solid all-around defenseman with good offensive skill and great speed. He'd be a good complement to Lidstrom with other pairings of Kronwall/Stuart and Kindl/Pitkanen. Janik would be the 7th. As for Salei... I would rather have Janik. And as for Janik "earning" it... Meech has "earned" it more than Janik has. Meech has put his time in, played the role of #7, and Kindl being the hot prospect who couldn't get sent down this past year is the only reason Meech wasn't still on the NHL roster.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

If the Wings don't go after two higher-end defensemen, I think Meech is a good fit to take on a lot of Rafalski's duties in the Wings' top six. He's a solid all-around defenseman with good offensive skill and great speed. He'd be a good complement to Lidstrom with other pairings of Kronwall/Stuart and Kindl/Pitkanen. Janik would be the 7th. As for Salei... I would rather have Janik. And as for Janik "earning" it... Meech has "earned" it more than Janik has. Meech has put his time in, played the role of #7, and Kindl being the hot prospect who couldn't get sent down this past year is the only reason Meech wasn't still on the NHL roster.

Given that Meech played himself off the team, why you think he is suddenly an NHL-caliber defenseman who could in any fashion pick up the slack from Rafalski's departure is beyond me. As for Kindl, he was on the roster over Meech because he's better than Meech. Meech had his chance and blew it. I haven't got the slightest clue where you got the impression otherwise.

Salei may have had his issues, but if you think that Janik is better, then... well, I don't really know what to say.

What are your plans for Osgood? Perhaps you think Howard should be traded and Osgood re-signed as the starting goaltender?

Edited by Crymson

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Given that Meech played himself off the team, why you think he is suddenly an NHL-caliber defenseman who could in any fashion pick up the slack from Rafalski's departure is beyond me. As for Kindl, he was on the roster over Meech because he's better than Meech. Meech had his chance and blew it. I haven't got the slightest clue where you got the impression otherwise.

Salei may have had his issues, but if you think that Janik is better, then... well, I don't really know what to say.

What are your plans for Osgood? Perhaps you think Howard should be traded and Osgood re-signed as the starting goaltender?

Kindl was effectively guaranteed a roster spot this past season. Same as Mursak next year and Smith the year after.

I would take Janik over Salei because Janik is a solid, reliable defender who plays a good physical game. Salei is no longer that. Salei was on the roster this season for his defense, and he often made costly mistakes but rarely made excellent plays. Janik may not be a star defender, but one thing he can be relied on for is relatively mistake-free defense. He won't bring you much offense, and he's not going to shut down the Sedin twins on his own, but he'll do his job and he won't f*** up very often. And that's what I would expect from a #6/7 stay-at-home type.

Osgood will probably be re-signed to back Howard up. Based on play last season before Ozzie went out, we'll see how long that arrangement lasts. As I've said before; I think Ozzie sticks around long enough to get close to or pass Sawchuk's Wings and career numbers, but not much beyond if he passes them. He likely retires after 12-13.

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Kindl was effectively guaranteed a roster spot this past season. Same as Mursak next year and Smith the year after.

I would take Janik over Salei because Janik is a solid, reliable defender who plays a good physical game. Salei is no longer that. Salei was on the roster this season for his defense, and he often made costly mistakes but rarely made excellent plays. Janik may not be a star defender, but one thing he can be relied on for is relatively mistake-free defense. He won't bring you much offense, and he's not going to shut down the Sedin twins on his own, but he'll do his job and he won't f*** up very often. And that's what I would expect from a #6/7 stay-at-home type.

...

Meech didn't want the 7th spot, and the Wings were willing to give him an opportunity elsewhere when he couldn't win a top 6 spot. Had nothing to do with Kindl really. Kindl was basically 'competing' for the 7th spot against Smith and Janik (Neither really had any chance, considering Kindl's waiver status).

But if Meech was even half the player you seem to think, why did 29 other GMs pass on him twice? (Technically 3 times, but the third time there would have been little point in claiming him.) I wouldn't hate him as a 7th, but I would much prefer a better top 6 with Kindl 7th again.

Janik may have good size, but he isn't physical. He may not make many mistakes, but he doesn't do much of anything really. He's ok for an injury replacement call-up, but he is not an NHL player. He belongs in the AHL. Salei isn't much of a player, but he's an order of magnitude better than Janik.

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If the Wings don't go after two higher-end defensemen, I think Meech is a good fit to take on a lot of Rafalski's duties in the Wings' top six. He's a solid all-around defenseman with good offensive skill and great speed. He'd be a good complement to Lidstrom with other pairings of Kronwall/Stuart and Kindl/Pitkanen. Janik would be the 7th. As for Salei... I would rather have Janik. And as for Janik "earning" it... Meech has "earned" it more than Janik has. Meech has put his time in, played the role of #7, and Kindl being the hot prospect who couldn't get sent down this past year is the only reason Meech wasn't still on the NHL roster.

Oh, you're drunk, high or both, I get it...

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Meech didn't want the 7th spot, and the Wings were willing to give him an opportunity elsewhere when he couldn't win a top 6 spot. Had nothing to do with Kindl really. Kindl was basically 'competing' for the 7th spot against Smith and Janik (Neither really had any chance, considering Kindl's waiver status).

But if Meech was even half the player you seem to think, why did 29 other GMs pass on him twice? (Technically 3 times, but the third time there would have been little point in claiming him.) I wouldn't hate him as a 7th, but I would much prefer a better top 6 with Kindl 7th again.

Janik may have good size, but he isn't physical. He may not make many mistakes, but he doesn't do much of anything really. He's ok for an injury replacement call-up, but he is not an NHL player. He belongs in the AHL. Salei isn't much of a player, but he's an order of magnitude better than Janik.

Drew Miller was picked up by the Wings on waivers from Tampa in the same season he had previously been waived by Anaheim. Detroit had the last claim at that time. Why did nobody else want him? He must be an AHL player. And I agree, a top-6 where Kindl isn't good enough to make it is certainly better than what I posted. But it's not realistic. Kindl had basically taken Salei's job at the end of the season, and only missed out on the playoffs because he was a rookie.

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If the Wings don't go after two higher-end defensemen, I think Meech is a good fit to take on a lot of Rafalski's duties in the Wings' top six. He's a solid all-around defenseman with good offensive skill and great speed. He'd be a good complement to Lidstrom with other pairings of Kronwall/Stuart and Kindl/Pitkanen. Janik would be the 7th. As for Salei... I would rather have Janik. And as for Janik "earning" it... Meech has "earned" it more than Janik has. Meech has put his time in, played the role of #7, and Kindl being the hot prospect who couldn't get sent down this past year is the only reason Meech wasn't still on the NHL roster.

The whole reason the Wings signed Salei last year was because neither Meech nor Janik were good enough to play day in and day out consistently. Up until last year Kindl had never played in any NHL games and did quite well (for a sixth or seventh defenseman) when he had the opportunity. If Meech or Janik were capable of doing that then they wouldn't have signed Salei, and Mike Babcock wouldn't be talking about signing a top six forward and TWO defenseman if they don't re-sign Ericsson. Anybody who thinks Meech or Janik can take over Salei or Ericsson's spot, let alone Rafalski's role need only ask themselves why that didn't happen last year, before the Salei signing. Unless you think that either Meech or Janik vastly improved their game last year with Grand Rapids, in which case I'd have to wonder which games you were watching because I'm fairly sure Janik played only seven games with the Wings and Meech played less than that (maybe none at all, I can't exactly remember).

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I'd be ok with Meech as the 6th/7th DMan rotating with Kindl. With Kindl getting 60% of the playing time. I mean, Meech still is young and is a decent PP DMan and a skilled puck mover. Would I want him full time? No. Would I care if he was a 7th DMan? Not at all.

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I'd be ok with Meech as the 6th/7th DMan rotating with Kindl. With Kindl getting 60% of the playing time. I mean, Meech still is young and is a decent PP DMan and a skilled puck mover. Would I want him full time? No. Would I care if he was a 7th DMan? Not at all.

We would all be ok with Meech as a 7th Dman, but Meech isn't ok with Meech being a 7th Dman.

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Drew Miller was picked up by the Wings on waivers from Tampa in the same season he had previously been waived by Anaheim. Detroit had the last claim at that time. Why did nobody else want him? He must be an AHL player. And I agree, a top-6 where Kindl isn't good enough to make it is certainly better than what I posted. But it's not realistic. Kindl had basically taken Salei's job at the end of the season, and only missed out on the playoffs because he was a rookie.

First, I said Janik is not an NHL player, though borderline would be more accurate. He's not an everyday player, and there are better options for us. From our perspective, he belongs in the AHL.

Meech too is a borderline player, though better than Janik. He's not suited for an everyday role. Miller is a bit better but not much. Best suited for a 4th line/sub role, which is why he was waived and we were able to claim him. You're suggesting Meech is good enough for a top 4 role. I'm saying if he was even an everyday player, he certainly would have been claimed.

Second, when we claimed Miller on Nov. 10, 2009 our record was 7-5-3; not even close to the best record in the league (I don't think we were even top 15). And we had Franzen, Filppula, and Williams all out with long-term injuries. On a healthy Wings team, we never would have claimed him, nor is he an everyday player. If you were to suggest Miller would be a decent option for a top-6 role you'd be just as crazy as you are for suggesting Meech is a capable top 4 defenseman.

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We burned our bridge with Meech.

Janik actually is a NHL cailber dman, he does nothing but play defense but he does that well.

Not really. Hence why he's 31 with fewer than 200 NHL games.

Good enough defense to fill in occasionally, but not good enough to be an everyday player, even on a poor team.

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Meech was the Griffs' best defenseman last season, not Smith. And everyone seems to want Smith in the top four. Meech is capable of NHL-level play at both ends, while Smith's defense is still a little shaky. So pick your own depth guy I guess, but cheaper and better is how I roll. Smith will be better soon, but he can keep playing in GR, and he won't be top six unless we have a thin defense. Meech is gone if he's not in the bigs. I'd like to keep both if possible.

Hey, I will tell you what, IF Smith is destined to be in GR for another season (not counting injury call ups) AND Holland signs 2 UFA d-men form outside the organization, of course re-sign Lids, then I would be OK with Meech being the #7 guy here...but would Meech be OK with being #7, or would he be #6?

just an example...

Lids - Wiz

Stuart - Kronner

Jovo - Kindl (meech)

Meech (kindl)

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First, I said Janik is not an NHL player, though borderline would be more accurate. He's not an everyday player, and there are better options for us. From our perspective, he belongs in the AHL.

Meech too is a borderline player, though better than Janik. He's not suited for an everyday role. Miller is a bit better but not much. Best suited for a 4th line/sub role, which is why he was waived and we were able to claim him. You're suggesting Meech is good enough for a top 4 role. I'm saying if he was even an everyday player, he certainly would have been claimed.

Second, when we claimed Miller on Nov. 10, 2009 our record was 7-5-3; not even close to the best record in the league (I don't think we were even top 15). And we had Franzen, Filppula, and Williams all out with long-term injuries. On a healthy Wings team, we never would have claimed him, nor is he an everyday player. If you were to suggest Miller would be a decent option for a top-6 role you'd be just as crazy as you are for suggesting Meech is a capable top 4 defenseman.

I never suggested Meech as a top four defenseman. I suggested him as a top six role. Playing with Lidstrom makes him top four? No it doesn't. Niklas Kronwall was the team's #2 at ES, but his partner was Ruslan Salei - who was the team's #6. Jonathan Ericsson played more at even strength per game than Nicklas Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski, or Salei. For example; Larry is the #1 defenseman. Bob plays 15 minutes with Larry. Fred and John are the #2 and #3 defensemen. They each play 5 minutes with Larry and 15 minutes together. Al and Jim are the third pairing, and they play 18 minutes together, and Bob plays one minute with each of Al and Jim.

What happens? Bob plays almost all of his ice time with Larry. Larry plays more than half of his with Bob. Yet Larry is the #1 defenseman and Bob is the #6.

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..... For example; Larry is the #1 defenseman. Bob plays 15 minutes with Larry. Fred and John are the #2 and #3 defensemen. They each play 5 minutes with Larry and 15 minutes together. Al and Jim are the third pairing, and they play 18 minutes together, and Bob plays one minute with each of Al and Jim.

What happens?

6 corn-fed N. American names like that? On the Wings? Impossible!

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I never suggested Meech as a top four defenseman. I suggested him as a top six role. Playing with Lidstrom makes him top four? No it doesn't. Niklas Kronwall was the team's #2 at ES, but his partner was Ruslan Salei - who was the team's #6. Jonathan Ericsson played more at even strength per game than Nicklas Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski, or Salei. For example; Larry is the #1 defenseman. Bob plays 15 minutes with Larry. Fred and John are the #2 and #3 defensemen. They each play 5 minutes with Larry and 15 minutes together. Al and Jim are the third pairing, and they play 18 minutes together, and Bob plays one minute with each of Al and Jim.

What happens?

Train Z clearly meets Train X in Omaha at 2:33am EST.

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