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Liquidsnake

Holland comments on Suter & Parise going to Wild

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I said it last week and I'll say it again, if Holland doesn't land Parise and/or Suter, it's going to be viewed as a failure no matter the reason, and it's going to be yet another off-season failure in a string of off-season failures. These were less his fault than '09's for example, but it's no matter, because he's had enough failures that were entirely his fault at this point.

Everyone wants to defend the guy because we've been so successful, but for the last 3-4 years, the guy has dropped the ball again and again and failed to set us up to be in a good position when Lidstrom retired. You can say that it's a different league now and we're not the draw to free agents we were 3-4 years ago, but that was all the more reason why he should've been making the deals then to set us up for this particularily dramatic off-season. But he's made too many emotional decisions in keeping guys (and gambling on guys...) we developed over pursuing better, proven talent at the expense of home-grown guys that had yet to live up to potential or do so consistently. He's played it too cautious and sat on the sidelines while our value as a destination team to players diminished.

You know, everyone's pissed about losing Suter now, but he should've made a deal to bring in a guy like Suter 3 years ago so he could sit next to Lidstrom and LEARN so we'd his replacement in place and more ready than ever to take over Lidstrom's role. The fact that it didn't happen was a supremely regrettable and in my mind inexcusable lack of foresight.

I don't claim to be an expert and I know Ken Holland knows a lot more about the game than I do, but too much of this was obvious even to me and it's been obvious to me since we were winning our last Cup, when things were good. I started to see it and started to worry then. And if a casual fan can start to pick up on this, then there's little doubt that Ken Holland was probably aware of it as well, but again, he failed to act. Why that was is still anyone's guess, but again, I think he simply was too close to the situation and made too many moves for emotional reasons that didn't serve the team well in the long run. That is why in my mind he has failed, and failed quite enough to get many if any more chances to manage this team heading into another off-season.

I wish we still had +'s cuz I would plus this every day for a week.

esteef

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You are right, Holland should have either A) bashed the players over the head and made them sign, or B) offered $12million per yr cap hit for the next 13 years...because that is how you build a winning team, you overpay.

C) you sit down with Ken and tell him that his total pooch screwing fest the last few years is coming to an end or hes out of a job..

Hes had more than a few years to take care of our defense situation and hasnt. In the mean time he overpaid for Mule and Erricson. Spending money on Quincey was even worse.

I hope you cant say with a straight face that Holland has been making the transac tions of a top tier GM. If so, go back to playing NHL 12

Edited by Cali-Wing-Nut

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Holland have to sign Semin now!! We need a top-six forward, and Semin would be great.

Also trade Nash or Ryan, offer Franzén and Cleary. Those two are the only forwards that I´m ok with leaving. And that probably wont be enough for either Nash or Ryan, so maybe they´ll have to throw in some more, but NO ONE else from our top lines.

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Filppula and some prospects will get us Ryan..... I say do it. You then sign Mueller to give us 4 legit centers.... Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm & Mueller.

Trade a Franzen package for Yandle, sign Doan, sign Semin..... I think that lineup is very, very competitive. Playoffs for sure....better than Minny's lineup...

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How can you say that Holland should have signed a Suter-type player 3 years ago when the money wasn't there; they were up against the cap and had injured players. They didn't have much stock in the prospect pool until the last 3years.

Who could Holland trade for they could afford without hurting the team? Heck, I don't remember what defensemen were available 3 years ago. I didn't pay much attention because there was no money, the cap was so low at the time.

What is hurting Red Wings now is the cap increase. Had it stayed the same or went down, they'd been in better position to aquire talent. These guys are getting seriously overpaid. Personally, I think the cap is gonna go down soon.

I stopped trying to talk reason with this group a long time ago.

Remember the "What have you done for me lately" mentality? That is what the LGW forum is all about. Forget the fact that they won 4 cups in the last 15 years. Forget the fact that they routinely spend to the cap. Forget the fact that the management and owners want to win. This is all about everything that could be viewed as a failure at this stage. Holland's fault seems to be the line right now, and that is really sad.

Just do yourself a favor and do what I did, just back out of the thread. Your posts make total sense to me, but to the whining entitled Wings fans who have this negative attitude, its not going to work unless you post a big "Fire Holland" at the end of every post you make.

This kind of entitled buffoonery is just what I would expect to see right now though. When the Wings do have have a couple down seasons, these entitled buffoons will be rooting for Chicago, LA, or some other team because they can't stand rooting for a losing team more than one or two seasons.

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We're better off w/o those two. If they really cared about winning they wouldn't have forced the team, that's going to employ them for the rest of their career, to give out contracts that would handcuff their franchise as long as they are on the team. These two aren't even cornerstone players to model your team after.

whitewolf406 likes this

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You're right. Stupid fans and their opinions. What are they thinking posting an opinion on a message board.

---

Holland has a problem, and people are finally getting fed up with it. Yes, it's all about what have you done lately, like in the last 4 seasons. That is the problem with some fans and Holland himself. It's too much "well, you were good 5 years ago, so you're a wing for life, no matter how bad you become," and not enough "what are you doing to help the team win today?"

esteef likes this

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It sounds like Holland did pretty much everything he could to land Suter here. Just sounds like family is more important, no one can fault either of them for choosing where they wanted because of family ties

SwedeLundin77 and fixxxer like this

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His job is to DO not to TRY. You know you have a cush job when all you gotta do is "try" and its okay.

I dont think Illitch is a TRY type of owner. Holland earned his mulligans but I think hes getting close to or fresh out of them after the last few years of non results.

I am a business owner and if I was in a sector that was as fast moving and cut throat as hockey was, Holland would have one last chance at this point. Otherwise hes costing you money at the risk of no return.

I had to let go our shop foreman for this very reason, he got way to comfortable in his job and finally took advatange of our good graces one too many times. Holland is on borrowed time unless he makes a monster deal to shore up our team.

If you think its only Holland's decision, you are wrong. The owners, especially Mr and Mrs. I would be in the loop of whats happening with their club. To say that his job is to DO and not try is ridiclous. He cant FORCE anyone here. There were 20 teams that made offers to these guys. He made a solid pitch but in the end, the farm boy in Wisconsin and the hometown Minnasota player decided on a different city. It isnt ALWAYS about money.....maybe they like the city more. Maybe they wanted to be the C and assistant C. Hundreds of things factor into a 13 year decision.

No one was more disappointed than I was when i read Suter had decided on Minny but the Wings brass aggressively went after Suter and in the end SUTER decided to go someplace else. Holland did his job.

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If you think its only Holland's decision, you are wrong. The owners, especially Mr and Mrs. I would be in the loop of whats happening with their club. To say that his job is to DO and not try is ridiclous. He cant FORCE anyone here. There were 20 teams that made offers to these guys. He made a solid pitch but in the end, the farm boy in Wisconsin and the hometown Minnasota player decided on a different city. It isnt ALWAYS about money.....maybe they like the city more. Maybe they wanted to be the C and assistant C. Hundreds of things factor into a 13 year decision.

No one was more disappointed than I was when i read Suter had decided on Minny but the Wings brass aggressively went after Suter and in the end SUTER decided to go someplace else. Holland did his job.

Totally agree, there are a lot of reasons players would chose small markets like this. Being in Minnesota they are the superstars! In Detroit there's Datsyuk Zetterberg Kronwall ... home town fans they will be behind there shadow for a while. On top of that, Suter knows the reason Detroit wants him to join was to replace Lidstrom, meaning the expectation are very high meanwhile in Minnesota making the playoffs is good enough!

Get over people, who cares about Suter or Parise ... if you we're really a fan of them maybe we can sign them after there contract is up ... since everyone is implying all Holand does is sign old people!

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While I am upset about Suter going to Minny as well, I do not fault Holland or Mr. I for it at all. They did as much as the possibly could and made competitive offers. By all accounts, it seemed like the Wings were Suter's 2nd choice, so it just came down to family, location, and a friend going there as well.

I think Holland is a solid General Manager. Should he have been more ready for Lidstrom's departure? Of course, but at the same time, we were basically at the cap the past few seasons, and who knows... maybe he tried to get someone bigger in here last season and couldn't get the right fit. I'd much rather he play it smart and save the cap, then listen to a bunch of clown fans who just want us to blow our cap out of panic and the assumption of a steep decline in stats...

Don't be surprised if we end up with similar stats this season to last season... LA won the frickin' cup with a rag-tag bunch of D-men.... Doughty was the only real standout on that squads back-end.

Keep calm and STFU!

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To say that his job is to DO and not try is ridiclous. He cant FORCE anyone here.

I see what you did there! :D

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I said it last week and I'll say it again, if Holland doesn't land Parise and/or Suter, it's going to be viewed as a failure no matter the reason, and it's going to be yet another off-season failure in a string of off-season failures. These were less his fault than '09's for example, but it's no matter, because he's had enough failures that were entirely his fault at this point.

Everyone wants to defend the guy because we've been so successful, but for the last 3-4 years, the guy has dropped the ball again and again and failed to set us up to be in a good position when Lidstrom retired. You can say that it's a different league now and we're not the draw to free agents we were 3-4 years ago, but that was all the more reason why he should've been making the deals then to set us up for this particularily dramatic off-season. But he's made too many emotional decisions in keeping guys (and gambling on guys...) we developed over pursuing better, proven talent at the expense of home-grown guys that had yet to live up to potential or do so consistently. He's played it too cautious and sat on the sidelines while our value as a destination team to players diminished.

You know, everyone's pissed about losing Suter now, but he should've made a deal to bring in a guy like Suter 3 years ago so he could sit next to Lidstrom and LEARN so we'd his replacement in place and more ready than ever to take over Lidstrom's role. The fact that it didn't happen was a supremely regrettable and in my mind inexcusable lack of foresight.

I don't claim to be an expert and I know Ken Holland knows a lot more about the game than I do, but too much of this was obvious even to me and it's been obvious to me since we were winning our last Cup, when things were good. I started to see it and started to worry then. And if a casual fan can start to pick up on this, then there's little doubt that Ken Holland was probably aware of it as well, but again, he failed to act. Why that was is still anyone's guess, but again, I think he simply was too close to the situation and made too many moves for emotional reasons that didn't serve the team well in the long run. That is why in my mind he has failed, and failed quite enough to get many if any more chances to manage this team heading into another off-season.

Great post, couldn't have said it better

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