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stevkrause

Red Wings make "helluva" offer for Nash, no response

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It doesn't happen very often but it seems to happen to the Wings...

Look when we landed Chris Chelios in 1999, It may not happen, but it certainly can...

Shanahan is another fine example.

We gave up a prime Keith Primeau (although he wasn't happy in Detroit), an aging Paul Coffey, and a 1st round pick for Shanny, and Bryan Glynn.

Worked out great for us!

EDIT - not a division rival - however hi-end players were involved in the trade.

Edited by F.Michael

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I stil say we hold the trump card in Filppula when it comes to acquiring Ryan... I still think Howson is an idiot, but I guess he doesn't want Franzine either...do you blame him?

BTW, :clap: to Holland this off season, for attemtpting everthing we've been complaining about him NOT doing the last 4-5 years... He is trying...

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Not really a surprised. Trading your franchise player to a division rival doesn't exactly happen very often.

As I said before, hockey strategy aside it's just bad marketing. If you think Columbus fans are unhappy with the team now, imagine how they'd feel if they traded Nash to the Wings. There'd be a riot.

Their franchise player has landed them 1 playoff appearance and 0 playoff wins since he's been there. Maybe the fans are ready for some fresh faces....then again maybe they arent .

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I stil say we hold the trump card in Filppula when it comes to acquiring Ryan... I still think Howson is an idiot, but I guess he doesn't want Franzine either...do you blame him?

BTW, :clap: to Holland this off season, for attemtpting everthing we've been complaining about him NOT doing the last 4-5 years... He is trying...

Personally I would rather see Ryan here anyways..right handed shot..3 years younger...5.1 cap hit opposed to the 7.8 of Nash. Ryan would be my 1st choice via trade..then Semin, Doan, Nash. I was pumped about the idea of getting Nash at one point but Howson is out of his skull it sounds like.

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Personally I would rather see Ryan here anyways..right handed shot..3 years younger...5.1 cap hit opposed to the 7.8 of Nash. Ryan would be my 1st choice via trade..then Semin, Doan, Nash. I was pumped about the idea of getting Nash at one point but Howson is out of his skull it sounds like.

Agreed.

Ryan would fit in nicely, and we'd have to give up alot less in return.

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So the offer was Franzen+prospect+pick and Howson rejected....

If that was the offer, I don't blame Howson. Anything short of Filppula+Miller or Abdelkader+Nyguist, Tatar or Jurco(or maybe even two of them)+ draft pick(s) should be rejected if Howson wants to keep his job. He's in a tough spot. He needs to make this trade look good if he wants to keep his job.

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So the offer was Franzen+prospect+pick and Howson rejected....

I honestly don't know...No names were mentioned - just speculation as far as I can tell.

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So the offer was Franzen+prospect+pick and Howson rejected....

Are you asking us or telling us? If this is truly what we offered, then this IS NOT "one hell of an offer". This might be enough to land Jeff Carter at last year's trade deadline, but not enough to land Rick Nash during this year's off season.

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Well - the way I see it...Franzen is most likely on the decline...Fillpula will go back to being a 35 to 40 point guy...Nyquist could be a 30 pt guy - then again he could shock us all, and become a 60 to 70 pts guy.

Why not make a trade for a guy who'll ride on Datyuk's wing, and possibly get 40 plus goals, and 80 plus pts?

To me it's high risk - high reward.

Talk about pessimistic.

Franzen is only 32. Why would you think that a 32 year old is on the decline.?

Fillpula is 28 and has just had his best year but you think that he is going to drop from 66 points to 35-40 which is a 40-53% decline. Why do you expect such a huge decline?

Obviously you are not looking at this objectively.

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Are you asking us or telling us? If this is truly what we offered, then this IS NOT "one hell of an offer". This might be enough to land Jeff Carter at last year's trade deadline, but not enough to land Rick Nash during this year's off season.

That's what the reports say.

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The stock market will see a 50% crash... gas will become $10 per gallon...

Dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

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Talk about pessimistic.

Franzen is only 32. Why would you think that a 32 year old is on the decline.?

Fillpula is 28 and has just had his best year but you think that he is going to drop from 66 points to 35-40 which is a 40-53% decline. Why do you expect such a huge decline?

Obviously you are not looking at this objectively.

Well - Franzen these past few years has been rather inconsistent, and doesn't appear willing to get those "dirty" goals as he used to.

Prior to this past season - Filppula has been a 35 to 40 pts guy; he's not a 20 to 22 yr old kid who's on the upswing of his career; he's peaked at 28 yrs of age, and IMHO he'll return to the 35 to 40 pts per season.

I'm a realist.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
to remove deleted post that was quoted

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That's what the reports say.

Wow, I didn't see any reports with actual names or anything like that. I'm starting to think we really do lowball everyone we try to deal with. We've trying to trade a division rival for the face of the franchise and captain, and we don't even offer two roster players...unreal. How is this "one hell of an offer"?

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Wow, I didn't see any reports with actual names or anything like that. I'm starting to think we really do lowball everyone we try to deal with. We've trying to trade a division rival for the face of the franchise and captain, and we don't even offer two roster players...unreal. How is this "one hell of an offer"?

That's one "Holland' of an offer!" :cheesy:

esteef

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Well - the way I see it...Franzen is most likely on the decline...Fillpula will go back to being a 35 to 40 point guy...Nyquist could be a 30 pt guy - then again he could shock us all, and become a 60 to 70 pts guy.

Why not make a trade for a guy who'll ride on Datyuk's wing, and possibly get 40 plus goals, and 80 plus pts?

To me it's high risk - high reward.

You are right in that it is high risk, and for a winger mind you. I think that price is too steep, especially with the 1st rounder added in too which is what you didn't discuss.

Would you make that trade? I wouldn't.

That's what the reports say.

Link? Source?

I haven't read a single report on what was offered. It certainly would be nice to hear something credible before we pass judgement.

Otherwise, I heard from "a source" that he offered Dats, Zetterberg, and Franzen for Nash and they rejected. :D

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That's one "Holland' of an offer!" :cheesy:

esteef

I wonder what our management expected to have happen when they laid down that offer. You think they really anticipated that Howson, who's likely heard ten other offers that were as good or better (and turned them all down), was going to jump at it because he suddenly realized what a fool he's been?

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Talk about pessimistic.

Franzen is only 32. Why would you think that a 32 year old is on the decline.?

Fillpula is 28 and has just had his best year but you think that he is going to drop from 66 points to 35-40 which is a 40-53% decline. Why do you expect such a huge decline?

Obviously you are not looking at this objectively.

Age 32 IS around the time a player would start to decline. It's not fair to look at players for comparison that played over the 80's and 90's (like Yzerman) because the goaltending and defensive changes after around '91-'93 make those two eras statistically incomparable. But you'd be hard pressed to find a player (especially large, heavy power forwards) whose numbers didn't start to tail off around that age. Keith Tkachuk's did. So did John LeClair's. And Franzen has had significant knee issues in the past and it's not like those are just going to go away.

I'm not saying Franzen is terrible and we should just cut him (Well, trade maybe). But he'll be 33 in December. And it's infinitely more likely he becomes a 25 goal scorer than we see him blow up for 35-40.

Filppula is in the midst of his peak years, and I could see him improving as his role continues to grow. But ability-wise, I don't feel like there's a "next level" from him we haven't seen yet. If you think about players like Draper and Helm, people have always felt that they would improve later in their careers after their skills caught up to their pure athletic ability. But except for one or two years from Draper where he was briefly thought of as a Top 6 forward, that wasn't really the case.

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Wow, I didn't see any reports with actual names or anything like that. I'm starting to think we really do lowball everyone we try to deal with. We've trying to trade a division rival for the face of the franchise and captain, and we don't even offer two roster players...unreal. How is this "one hell of an offer"?

Usually agree with your posts,but not this time.Franzen might be lazy and floater at times,but he's still 30 goals scorer with under $4mil cap,our prospects poll is among the best in the league and Kenny's offer is the best offer they got so far.

That's one "Holland' of an offer!" :cheesy:

esteef

lol

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Wait, do we know the actual offer?

Well someone was saying it was Franzen, prospect, pick...but hasn't felt it necessary to verify that with some evidence. That was what I was responding to, but it could be total bulls***.

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You are right in that it is high risk, and for a winger mind you. I think that price is too steep, especially with the 1st rounder added in too which is what you didn't discuss.

Would you make that trade? I wouldn't.

If a 1st rounder were to be included along with Franzen/Filppula/Nyquist - then I'd say no thanks - too steep.

For all we know Nash may never hit 80 pts again, and Nyquist could be a 60 plus pts a season if given the ice time, and playing alongside either Dats, or Hank.

A deal with the Ducks for Ryan is more realistic; they'd want Filppula, and a 1st round pick...That seems reasonable.

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Usually agree with your posts,but not this time.Franzen might be lazy and floater at times,but he's still 30 goals scorer with under $4mil cap,our prospects poll is among the best in the league and Kenny's offer is the best offer they got so far.

lol

The reason I think it's a bad offer is because it doesn't address the basic criteria that Howson has repeatedly said he'd need in a trade. Two roster players, plus whatever else. If I say I will take no less then three guys in a trade, and you offer me two, then you're lowballing me and I'm obviously not going to respond. In this case, it's obvious he wants two NHL ready forwards, the quality of those two forwards is the part where you negotiate, but it seems pretty set in stone in terms of the number of players he wants back.

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