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sjr2012

Who do we Unload, reload on before the season starts?

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Emmerton is the obvious one to go. That obviously is entirely dependent on Helm's health. I really like Eaves, but I also believe the signing of Miller makes him redundant unfortunately. Tootoo doesn't seem to be real popular going forward, so I could see him being moved. Not sure I am really in favor of trading Tootoo, as he gives the Red Wings something they don't have. I don't care if they sit him in the playoffs again, but I would like his presence around over the course of 82 regular season games.

Sammy can find a nice comfy seat in the press box until that awful contract expires. It doesn't even have to be a comfy seat. He has no value or purpose on this team. I think Bertuzzi can still contribute at least. Big body that protects the puck and might get the Red Wings a few extra points in the shootout. Admittedly, I won't pleased though if Bertuzzi is taking away playing time from Nyquist and/or Tatar.

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Sammy and Bertuzzi. The two old guys who are injured and useless.

Holland s*** all over himself with the Sammy contract, though. A useless signing and a no-trade clause to boot. Brilliant.


They're not "holding the organization hostage". It's not their fault we signed to many forwards and are exceeding the cap. They want to play and contribute and they have every right to attempt to do so. The way you state it you seem to think going on LTIR is a choice. You have to be declared by a physician to be unable to play for a minimum of 24 days or 10 games because you are "injured, ill or disabled and unable to perform your duties as a hockey player". For the record Bertuzzi and Sammy both claim to be feeling great and are very excited for this season.

I agree.

Not Sammy's fault Holland was stupid enough to give him that contract. What was Sammy supposed to do? Turn it down?

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Sammy and Bertuzzi. The two old guys who are injured and useless.

Holland s*** all over himself with the Sammy contract, though. A useless signing and a no-trade clause to boot. Brilliant.

I agree.

Not Sammy's fault Holland was stupid enough to give him that contract. What was Sammy supposed to do? Turn it down?

To be fair, it does look like Kenny's plan all along was in essence to pay Sammy 1 2/3rds seasons of salary to play for 1 year & then do a compliance buyout. If not for Sammy's "injury" blocking the buyout, he would be gone already.

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To be fair, it does look like Kenny's plan all along was in essence to pay Sammy 1 2/3rds seasons of salary to play for 1 year & then do a compliance buyout. If not for Sammy's "injury" blocking the buyout, he would be gone already.

He's an old man and has been injured before. It was a poor move at the time, not just hindsight being 20/20.

Signing Cleary would be a similar mistake.

We need to purge these old-timers and let the kids play.

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Less about getting anything back than clearing up space for better options on the roster. That's again why I think that the Wings will end up having to retain some salary to potentially move someone like Tootoo. Doubt teams could sign a Morrow or Cleary cheaper than trading a 7th rounder for Tootoo when the Wings are still paying a chunk of his salary. One other option they have is to send Nyquist back down to GR but if they do, he'll have to be there for the season. From what I remember, he has all of two games left in the NHL before his waiver exemption expires. I seriously doubt though that Kenny would do that.

And as far as sending vets to the minors, I do recall that's more than likely where Draper & Maltby would have ended up if they hadn't called it quits & moved into the front office. They where both offered a "come to camp to try to play your way on the roster" contract by Kenny with the thought they would end up being player/mentors in GR if they didn't make it. Both obviously chose retirement instead. The problem in doing that with Sammy or Bert now, well other than the fact that they're already under contract, is that the Wings would only get cap relief of $100k per if they're sent to the minors.

I agree with you that we are very likely to have to retain salary in a potential deal. Merely because we're at such a disadvantage in negotiating a deal with our roster/cap predicament. That may even negate us to include a pick. No chance Nyquist goes to Grand Rapids though. That would be an absolute last resort.

In regards to Draper and Maltby's situation I suspect that was a bit different than Bert and Sammy. I just feel the there's a different expectation of these two in their final year than there was with those two. I honestly feel Holland believes Bert and Sammy can be effective top 6/9 forwards and put up points. That wasn't the case with Drapes and Maltby in their final year. Whether Holland is right on that...well we'll see. I'm not banking on them.

He's an old man and has been injured before. It was a poor move at the time, not just hindsight being 20/20.

Signing Cleary would be a similar mistake.

We need to purge these old-timers and let the kids play.

THIS for sure. We may just have to wait another year....Seems like we say that every year....sigh.

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He's an old man and has been injured before. It was a poor move at the time, not just hindsight being 20/20.

Signing Cleary would be a similar mistake.

We need to purge these old-timers and let the kids play.

I dont like the old guys, either.

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A guy isn't injury prone after one year. Samuelsson could have just as easily played 45 games and hit 25 points last year, and Bertuzzi could have scored 20 points. You sign as guy based on what you think he can do, not after you jump in your time machine and see what he will do.

Bertuzzi and Samuelsson were signed for their size and because the team didn't think Tatar and Nyquist were ready. They weren't. If a vet had played like either of them then most people would be screaming for blood. Hell Brunner was better than either of them but people still complained about him.

BTW, I love how hypocritical typical Detroit fan is about signing players. Bertuzzi is too old. Get Jagr instead. Samuelsson was hurt a lot one year he's injury prone. Lecavalier missed 20% of his games the last 3 years they should sign him to a multi-year contract.

Edited by DickieDunn

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Bertuzzi and Samuelsson were signed for their size and because the team didn't think Tatar and Nyquist were ready. They weren't. If a vet had played like either of them then most people would be screaming for blood. Hell Brunner was better than either of them but people still complained about him. BTW, I love how hypocritical typical Detroit fan is about signing players. Bertuzzi is too old. Get Jagr instead. Samuelsson was hurt a lot one year he's injury prone. Lecavalier missed 20% of his games the last 3 years they should sign him to a multi-year contract.

When Bert is playing I think it really changes the team. People really under rate his creativity and playmaking. I'm not sure what Sammy will bring if he is healthy this year. Doesn't sound like he is doing that well from what I've been reading.

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A guy isn't injury prone after one year. Samuelsson could have just as easily played 45 games and hit 25 points last year, and Bertuzzi could have scored 20 points. You sign as guy based on what you think he can do, not after you jump in your time machine and see what he will do.Bertuzzi and Samuelsson were signed for their size and because the team didn't think Tatar and Nyquist were ready. They weren't. If a vet had played like either of them then most people would be screaming for blood. Hell Brunner was better than either of them but people still complained about him.BTW, I love how hypocritical typical Detroit fan is about signing players. Bertuzzi is too old. Get Jagr instead. Samuelsson was hurt a lot one year he's injury prone. Lecavalier missed 20% of his games the last 3 years they should sign him to a multi-year contract.

Ive been against Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Sammy, and Cleary now for a while. Speed kills in hockey. If we were having a bowling tournament or telling Scandanavian jokes, then it would be another story.

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Holland's said a few times that Nyquist *will* be re-signed. Don't worry about that. I'd rather not take Cleary again because there's no roster space and it'd negatively impact the development of Tatar/Nyquist by pushing them back in the depth chart.

Unload Eaves (bummer but there's no room) and Tootoo right off the bat. Emmerton will have to stick around until they know for sure that Helm's back is fine.


For the record-- I think it sucks that they'd have to say goodbye to Eaves because Sammy can't be unloaded. I'd rather have Eaves for his versatility, aptitude at playing on the checking line and comparatively young age. Bert is worth keeping around for another year because the Wings need the size and he's helpful in the shoot-out if nothing else ;)

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Holland's said a few times that Nyquist *will* be re-signed. Don't worry about that. I'd rather not take Cleary again because there's no roster space and it'd negatively impact the development of Tatar/Nyquist by pushing them back in the depth chart.

Unload Eaves (bummer but there's no room) and Tootoo right off the bat. Emmerton will have to stick around until they know for sure that Helm's back is fine.

For the record-- I think it sucks that they'd have to say goodbye to Eaves because Sammy can't be unloaded. I'd rather have Eaves for his versatility, aptitude at playing on the checking line and comparatively young age. Bert is worth keeping around for another year because the Wings need the size and he's helpful in the shoot-out if nothing else ;)

And because Emdog's a regular now. 93% of games the last 2 years.

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I'd hate to see Tootoo and Eaves who provide physical spark and energy moved, and then have Emmerton and Sammy stick around. Hopefully Kenny can pull a rabbit out of his hat.

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You most definitely re-sign Nyquist....

Now, without Brunner and Cleary you still have 16 forwards and are at least $1.5M over the cap... The clear choice is dump Samuelsson somehow (that would solve the cap issue but not the roster one.) You would still have 15 forwards, you would still need to trade someone. With the thinking that Helm will be healthy and ready to go, this is what I do:

Choice #1: Get rid of Sammy (either LTIR or waive or buyout....something) then trade Emmerton for a pick...

Choice #2: (if Sammy cannot be moved) You trade Eaves for a pick or future's (He and Miller are the same player.) Then (here is where it's gets creative for me!) Trade Emmerton, Quincey and Monster to the Island for Visnovsky and a pick. You call up Coreau to back up Howard. You dump your two forwards, an overpaid defenseman (who is not worth his contract) and a useless backup to dump $7.0M roughly in salary, then you acquire that legit 2nd pairing defenseman and bring up a solid, YOUNGER, backup who will have to split time with Mrazek and probably Patterson down there anyhow...thus adding roughly $5.7M in salary, giving you $1.3M in cap space...

...of course, even if you could dump Sammy on LTIR, I still like the trade. Hell, I'd make that trade even if Sammy and Bert were LTIR! Quincey is not worth his salary, he is a UFA next summer, he won't take a paycut and no way will Holland pay him more than $4M! Trade him now and get something in return for him! Monster did nothing to prove he was a good backup last season and Emmerton is expendable with Helm healthy.

edit: ugh....after re-reading my post, I forgot about the -$1.5M in cap space I started with, so even with the trade, I am still $200,000 in the hole....come on Kenny, get that brain working! I am spent. :D

Edited by LeftWinger
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He won't be this year unless Helm has a set back.

Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.

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One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR. Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike.

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One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR. Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike.

Its sad, but we have to negative trade with Phoenix:

Sammy, Bert, Tootoo and a 1st rounder for a 7th rounder.

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One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR. Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike.

Was just going to suggest that Nyquist could start the year in GR, but he's only got like 2 games of waiver exemption left. I think DK's on the team regardless, and they'd waive one of Emmerton, Eaves or Tootoo before running 6 defenders. Going to suck seeing Gus spend another year in the AHL because of a boneheaded contract.

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He won't be this year unless Helm has a set back.Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.
He'll play. Just not for Detroit.
One other option the Wings have if they're really desperate is to send Nyquist & DeKeyser down to GR. Between going with 6 d-men though & not having DeKeyser in the line-up, I think we would see the first ever time that a single coach in the NHL went on strike. Was just going to suggest that Nyquist could start the year in GR, but he's only got like 2 games of waiver exemption left. I think DK's on the team regardless, and they'd waive one of Emmerton, Eaves or Tootoo before running 6 defenders. Going to suck seeing Gus spend another year in the AHL because of a boneheaded contract.
Nyquist will not spend the year in GR. Either someone will be on ir, a trade will be made, or Eaves and Snoop Emmerdog will be cut.

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If Sammy's on LTIR, that opens a roster spot. Once he's off of it, send him down until he agrees to waive his NTC.

For me, the only totally untouchables are Z, Pav, and Tootoo, the latter being personal preference and purely personal opinion. I understand that others may disagree. I'm ok with that.

Assuming we don't re-sign Cleary :) or Brunner :( a lot depends on a healthy Helm. Since signs are looking good, maybe we might have to part with someone like Eaves, although I loathe to see him go.

Since Miller and Andersson were just re-signed, I doubt they'll be moved.

I hate to say it, but after Emmerton, who may well have some moderately decent trade value, Eaves is the next best option that they'll possibly consider.

Sucks. I like Sammy too, but like Cleary, his time has come and gone.

I'd even be willing to part with Johan, even though he did his share of goal-scoring. We might get a bit more in return for him if we find someone who will take on his contract. I wouldn't just settle for a pick and a bag of pucks for him; he'd need to bring something substantial.

I have a feeling that no matter what happens, I'm going to be saying, "ah, dang. I'll miss him."

For me, the only totally untouchables are Z, Pav, and Tootoo, the latter being personal preference and purely personal opinion.

Uh, seriosuly?

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Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.

Unless there's more injuries, it doesn't sound like it.

Holland said Helm's status plays a role in having an extra center on the roster. So the team is likely to keep Cory Emmerton at least until Helm is cleared to play and not in danger of having a setback.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/08/red_wings_center_darren_helm_s.html

I'd be surprised if Helm's back isn't at least a question mark for the first half of the season though, so I could see them trying to hang on to Emmerton as a plug.

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Uh, seriosuly?

Yeah, "seriusuly".

I'm pretty sure that I mentioned that it was a personal opinion. That means that I like him, but other people don't have to if they don't want to.

I know, I know. That sort of thing meets with hostility around here, but I thought that the rest of my post had enough content that I could throw in a personal opinion.

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Not just Helm. Even if Helm plays 82, I bet Emdog still plays.

That would necessitate Andersson be hurt then. If Dats or Z are injured, they have the healthy one at centre and wingers move around. If Weiss is injured, Dats and Z are split up or Franzen takes 2nd centre duties. If Helm or Andersson are injured and Tuzzi is healthy, Abdelkader could move down to 4th line centre and Tuzzi can take his spot on the 1st line with Dats and Z. Emmerton is a last resort bud....sorry.

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I dont know for sure, but I dont think you can just freely bury players on LTIR if they arent hurt. My guess is that the league has some sort of way to make sure that teams aren't using LTIR as a way to circumvent the cap.

Besides, Bertuzzi is 100% healthy, and Samuelsson is supposed to be ready for camp if he isn't already.

I doubt there will really be any way at all for the Red Wings to unload Samuelsson or Bertuzzi. I doubt any team wants to cough up assets for an aging winger that missed significant time last season, without the Red Wings eating up some of their cap hit. I also can't see Holland eating any salary since they are going to be so close to the cap this season... I also can't see either player waiving their NTC's this late in their careers.

I think the team would like to unload Tootoo, but only if the deal makes sense. I dont think they want to retain any of his salary, nor do they want to take on any more contracts or players. My guess is that interested teams want one or both of those included in a deal for Tootoo and Holland doesnt want either. If they cant move him sensibly, he'll be on the opening roster. Waiving him won't be benificial because the Red Wings would have to pay $975k against the cap for him to play in GR if he goes unclaimed.

I think part of this decision depends on Helm. If Helm isn't ready to go, Emmerton will stay on the team as the #4 center until Helm gets healthy. Then, if they don't have room, they could waive Emmerton. If he goes unclaimed, he can go to GR without anything counting against the Wings cap. With Re-entry waivers gone in the new CBA, they will be able to freely recall him without worrying about him getting claimed and having to pay half his cap hit. As much as I like Emmerton, if he gets claimed I don't think it will really be a big deal. Ferraro will get a look this season, and was probably already on track to get a spot as a #13/14 forward for the 14/15 season. If Emmerton is gone and they need a center to fill in, they have depth in GR. I would say that it would be pretty realistic to expect to Emmerton get traded or waived if Helm is healthy to start the season.

I think Eaves would be next in line to go. If he can't be traded, waiving him and sending him to GR will only cost the team $275k against the cap. Not a huge number to pay to get to the 23 man roster limit.

Another option they have would be to start Nyquist in GR. Probably won't be the best or most popular choice, but if they wait till about ten games in when teams start facing injuries and/or making decisions on whether to send junior eligible players back to their junior teams, they might be able to find a taker for some like Tootoo, Eaves or Emmerton. Then they can recall Nyquist for the rest of the season when the space opens up.

Dekeyser can start in GR, but I can't really see the logic in demoting a d-man, when you have a logjam at forward... Carrying 6 dmen and 15 forwards won't make much sense. If a dman comes down with an illness, a very short term injury or has to leave for personal reasons of some sort, they won't be able to recall another Dman and would have to dress five of them.

I think the Red WIngs options to get down to 14 forwards are as followed, in this order:

1. Trade Tootoo

2. Trade/Waive Emmerton

3. Trade/Waive Eaves

4. Start with Nyquist in GR

5. If still injured, start with Helm on IR

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