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Shawn Thornton attacks Orpik (leaves game on stretcher)


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#101 kipwinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 03:40 AM

 

Nope team Bettman is my nickname for that team, after all the stuff they are getting away with.

 

Doesn't matter to me, its just annoying reading the same headlines everytime something like this is happening. If people don't like the game fine, don't watch it but stop pushing an agenda.

 

Neals hit could have been way worse the guy is skating with protectors on his knee through the head of a player, who happens to lay down on the ice that's disgusting and extremely dangerous. The department of player safety needs to look at the intent and then at the result, if Thornton is getting extensively more than Neal something in this league is really really wrong..if this happened to Crosby Mario and the whole Penguins organization would cry bloody murder.

 

There are two problems with your argument and how you present it.  First, fighting isn't part of the game, hence it's against the rules and is a penalty.  Secondly, you repeatedly call anyone who disagrees with you "soccer moms and dads", and tell everyone else to go watch something else if they don't agree.  Both are decidedly against the forum rules as well as piss poor ways of defending your point of view.  Not withstanding that fact that you inexplicably get away with your baiting over and over and over again, one has to wonder why (if you're such a fan of something that isn't part of the game) you don't go watch MMA or boxing. Instead, you prefer to tell everyone else to watch something else whenever they suggest that perhaps the game they love shouldn't be turned into a dangerous freak show because of flagrant and repeated disregard for the rules of the sport. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#102 frankgrimes

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:03 AM

 

There are two problems with your argument and how you present it.  First, fighting isn't part of the game, hence it's against the rules and is a penalty.  Secondly, you repeatedly call anyone who disagrees with you "soccer moms and dads", and tell everyone else to go watch something else if they don't agree.  Both are decidedly against the forum rules as well as piss poor ways of defending your point of view.  Not withstanding that fact that you inexplicably get away with your baiting over and over and over again, one has to wonder why (if you're such a fan of something that isn't part of the game) you don't go watch MMA or boxing. Instead, you prefer to tell everyone else to watch something else whenever they suggest that perhaps the game they love shouldn't be turned into a dangerous freak show because of flagrant and repeated disregard for the rules of the sport. 

 

Says the guy, who is trying in every damn thread to "analyse" the opinion of others. Soccer mums and hockey dads is not used for anyone specifically it's simple a term, because +in general+ the same discussions are happening on every board, every year ..more scoring, remove this and that...so it's warranted like it or not., just a simple term so stop reaching and stay on topic. I also don't need to defend my arguments, some agree some disagree so I could care less, if someone thinks I'm wrong or right.

 

Secondly I don't need others telling me, what is part of the game and what isn't since I know it, thanks.

 

Anyway back to topic

 

Bylsma has no problem with the hit from Orpik, maybe they should have asked him about the Neal thing, I am sure he doesn't have a problem with that either if it happened to Malkin or Crosby he would sing a different tune. That's exactly the reason why I can't stand the Penguins they are so talented but extremely hypocrites, Julien was honest and of course right.


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#103 kipwinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:49 AM

 

Says the guy, who is trying in every damn thread to "analyse" the opinion of others. Soccer mums and hockey dads is not used for anyone specifically it's simple a term, because +in general+ the same discussions are happening on every board, every year ..more scoring, remove this and that...so it's warranted like it or not., just a simple term so stop reaching and stay on topic. I also don't need to defend my arguments, some agree some disagree so I could care less, if someone thinks I'm wrong or right.

 

Secondly I don't need others telling me, what is part of the game and what isn't since I know it, thanks.

 

Anyway back to topic

 

Bylsma has no problem with the hit from Orpik, maybe they should have asked him about the Neal thing, I am sure he doesn't have a problem with that either if it happened to Malkin or Crosby he would sing a different tune. That's exactly the reason why I can't stand the Penguins they are so talented but extremely hypocrites, Julien was honest and of course right.

 

Isn't it the point of a discussion forum to "analyse" what others say and respond?  I suppose I could just say something, and then call people names when they disagree with me and tell them to watch another sport. 

 

p.s. Did you put "analyse" in quotes because you intentionally misspelled it, or was that just some sort of hilarious irony? 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#104 F.Michael

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:53 AM

 

Isn't it the point of a discussion forum to "analyse" what others say and respond?  I suppose I could just say something, and then call people names when they disagree with me and tell them to watch another sport. 

 

p.s. Did you put "analyse" in quotes because you intentionally misspelled it, or was that just some sort of hilarious irony? 

Man - you really are a stickler for details :lol:

 

Anyone remember this? Domi was given an 8 game suspension by Brian Burke. Just think what he'd get today.

 

 


Edited by F.Michael, 09 December 2013 - 04:55 AM.


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#105 kipwinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:58 AM

Man - you really are a stickler for details :lol:

 

Anyone remember this? Domi was given an 8 game suspension by Brian Burke. Just think what he'd get today.

 

 

 

Not really, I don't care when people misspell things.  I do it all the time.  It's just funny that he put the word in quotes, while misspelling it, while trying to take a jab at me, while trying to use a word that means "examine methodically and in detail". 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#106 Wings_Toledo

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 07:15 AM

In a way, I'm kind of glad that Thornton went after Orpik like that.  The Penguins get away with far too many dirty plays that sometimes cause serious injuries.  Thornton went too far with the repeated blows to the head after Orpik went down, but message sent.  No one likes to see anyone get hurt like that, though.  

 

Neal should get the same suspension because his knee to the head was just flat out disgusting and targeting a player who was already down as well.



#107 Dabura

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:04 AM

Instead, you prefer to tell everyone else to watch something else whenever they suggest that perhaps the game they love shouldn't be turned into a dangerous freak show because of flagrant and repeated disregard for the rules of the sport. 

 

The Norris Division was a dangerous (and entertaining) freak show. Today's leaugue is, by comparison, a(n entertaining) petting zoo.

 

Just saying.


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#108 F.Michael

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:08 AM

 

The Norris Division was a dangerous (and entertaining) freak show. Today's leaugue is, by comparison, a(n entertaining) petting zoo.

 

Just saying.

Agreed.

 

I was a kid back in the 70's...I fell in love with hockey when I was in the 2nd grade, and after bugging my parents for weeks - they finally relented, and took me to a Milwaukee Admirals game...Man - the crazy s*** I saw.



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#109 dobbles

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:32 AM

i wish thornton wouldn't have did what he did so the focal point in the media would have been how big a ******-canoe neal is. i wish he would have ended up with the longer suspension out of all of this. what he did was totally cowardly.

 

i think how it played out is really unfortunate. orpik goes off on a stretcher from a couple gloved punches so it makes thornton out to be the worst dude in the history of the world, but since marchand is disliked by most and was able to get off the ice, his injury was no big deal.

 

i wish the league punished more for intent an not on theatrics. thornton shouldnt have slew footed and he shouldnt have punched a guy thats down. but at the end of the day he was trying to fight a guy that had made a borderline dirty hit. i can understand someone getting caught up in the passion of the game and making the mistake he did. whereas neal's actions just make me not want to be a hockey fan when people can get away with dirty plays like that. honestly that is worse thaneven lemiuex on draper IMO.


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#110 kipwinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:33 AM

 

The Norris Division was a dangerous (and entertaining) freak show. Today's leaugue is, by comparison, a(n entertaining) petting zoo.

 

Just saying.

 

I'm not sure what you're "just saying". 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#111 kipwinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:39 AM

i wish thornton wouldn't have did what he did so the focal point in the media would have been how big a ******-canoe neal is. i wish he would have ended up with the longer suspension out of all of this. what he did was totally cowardly.

 

i think how it played out is really unfortunate. orpik goes off on a stretcher from a couple gloved punches so it makes thornton out to be the worst dude in the history of the world, but since marchand is disliked by most and was able to get off the ice, his injury was no big deal.

 

i wish the league punished more for intent an not on theatrics. thornton shouldnt have slew footed and he shouldnt have punched a guy thats down. but at the end of the day he was trying to fight a guy that had made a borderline dirty hit. i can understand someone getting caught up in the passion of the game and making the mistake he did. whereas neal's actions just make me not want to be a hockey fan when people can get away with dirty plays like that. honestly that is worse thaneven lemiuex on draper IMO.

 

Unquestionably Neal should get a huge suspension, and he probably will considering he's been suspended before.  They're both hugely chickens*** attacks on defenseless targets. 

 

But I disagree about Orpik's hit being borderline dirty.  In no way was that a dirty hit.  He hit him in the chest, not high, and he was already too committed to the hit to pull up after Eriksson failed to play the puck (although it did hit him, so even then the hit is legal). 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#112 dobbles

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:46 AM

 

Unquestionably Neal should get a huge suspension, and he probably will considering he's been suspended before.  They're both hugely chickens*** attacks on defenseless targets. 

 

But I disagree about Orpik's hit being borderline dirty.  In no way was that a dirty hit.  He hit him in the chest, not high, and he was already too committed to the hit to pull up after Eriksson failed to play the puck (although it did hit him, so even then the hit is legal). 

 

fair enough. i think i had a poor word choice there. i think questionable would have been the better choice. but in fairness to thornton, he didn't have the benefit of replay like we do.


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#113 Mckinley25

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

 
but in fairness to thornton, he didn't have the benefit of replay like we do.


Which is why he should not have done anything.

#114 toby91_ca

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:01 AM

 

 

Bylsma has no problem with the hit from Orpik, maybe they should have asked him about the Neal thing, I am sure he doesn't have a problem with that either if it happened to Malkin or Crosby he would sing a different tune. That's exactly the reason why I can't stand the Penguins they are so talented but extremely hypocrites, Julien was honest and of course right.

Maybe I'm missing something, but are you referencing a question that wasn't asked, to which you are assuming a particular answer and then using that as a reason why you can't stand the Penguins?  Bizzare.

 

I'm coming late to the party here, but my take on things:  I must say, I haven't spent any time looking for replays, I only saw the kneeing and the Thornton incident.

 

Kneeing - if someone asked me who I thought was the dirtiest penguin, it's probably Neal.  If you watch any player in NHL away from the puck...little dirty stuff goes on all the time, so I don't think many of the other Penguins are dirtier than the average NHLer....Neal is a bit different though.  He's a skilled player, so he doesn't do it all the time like a Marchand (even though he has some skill too).  Back to the kneeing.  Looked really bad to me....looked like he tried to make it look accidental, but it cleary wasn't.  What I can't tell is how much force there was.  What is keeping me from coming down too hard is that it was Marchand and it looked like he was milking it as I don't think he missed a shift.  That's not all that fair though.  I haven't seen the play in real time, which would probably help me judge better.

 

Thornton - that was disgustingly dirty.  To come up from behind, pull a guy back and kick out his feet is really bad.  That's what I hated more so than the blows to the head when he was on his back, but that doesn't help the matter.

 

Thornton will clearly get more games and I think deservedly so, but my mind could change based on seeing the kneeing in real time.  I don't agree with giving susespensions based on results, but the NHL does and because of that, Thornton would get more games.



#115 kipwinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:10 AM

 

fair enough. i think i had a poor word choice there. i think questionable would have been the better choice. but in fairness to thornton, he didn't have the benefit of replay like we do.

 

Of course he, did they show replays all the time on the big scoreboards.  You constantly see players and coaches looking up at it during games.  Thornton should have had a good view of it too, since he immediately went to the penalty box after the hit.  Which brings me to my last point, Orpik hit Eriksson on the first shift of the game.  Thornton got ejected at the 11:00 minute mark of the first.  There was plenty of time for his team to look at the board, see that it wasn't a dirty hit, and lay off Orpik.  Certainly nobody can say that Thornton was too emotional, or pissed off, or lost his cool.  He had ten minutes to think on it.  It was deliberate and dirty, there's no other way of looking at it.


Edited by kipwinger, 09 December 2013 - 11:11 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#116 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:17 PM

 

Unquestionably Neal should get a huge suspension, and he probably will considering he's been suspended before.  They're both hugely chickens*** attacks on defenseless targets. 

 

But I disagree about Orpik's hit being borderline dirty.  In no way was that a dirty hit.  He hit him in the chest, not high, and he was already too committed to the hit to pull up after Eriksson failed to play the puck (although it did hit him, so even then the hit is legal). 

 

I wouldn't call it dirty but I think it should've been an interference penalty.  When you're going to cut the timing that closely, if the player ends up not touching the puck and you deck him, that's on you.

 

It still in no way justifies Thornton's reaction.  I just think Orpik should've gotten a 2 minute penalty.



#117 e_prime

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

 

Of course he, did they show replays all the time on the big scoreboards.  You constantly see players and coaches looking up at it during games.  Thornton should have had a good view of it too, since he immediately went to the penalty box after the hit.  Which brings me to my last point, Orpik hit Eriksson on the first shift of the game.  Thornton got ejected at the 11:00 minute mark of the first.  There was plenty of time for his team to look at the board, see that it wasn't a dirty hit, and lay off Orpik.  Certainly nobody can say that Thornton was too emotional, or pissed off, or lost his cool.  He had ten minutes to think on it.  It was deliberate and dirty, there's no other way of looking at it.

 

This.

 

The Eriksson hit is way early in the game 19:39 to be exact.  First shift of the game! 

 

No time stamp, but later in the period Thorton tries to get Orpik to fight.  Orpik declines. 

This is probably where Thorton should have just left it alone, but he's stewing not calming down.

 

Neal's knee happens at 8:59.  Which stirs the pot some more.  Thorton then sees Campbell and Orpik jawing at each other. He decides he needs to help out his teammates and his punches follow.  

 

Don't know what he was thinking when he decided to knock Orpik down to the ice and follow up with some gloved punches.

I'll disagree with you slightly Kip...  I think he was too emotional, pissed off, and lost his cool... because he'd been thinking about it since the first shift of the game. Like you said, for 10 minutes!

It doesn't justify his actions in anyway.  It just makes his behavior all the more ridiculous.

Furthermore, I don't buy his tearful "not my intention" apology.  It was his intention to punch Orpik. 

Maybe he didn't want him to be carted off on a stretcher, but he wanted to punish him with his fists.

 

DIsgusting.  All around.


Edited by e_prime, 09 December 2013 - 12:48 PM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#118 dobbles

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:50 PM

 

This.

 

The Eriksson hit is way early in the game 19:39 to be exact.  First shift of the game! 

 

No time stamp, but later in the period Thorton tries to get Orpik to fight.  Orpik declines. 

This is probably where Thorton should have just left it alone, but he's stewing not calming down.

 

Neal's knee happens at 8:59.  Which stirs the pot some more.  Thorton then sees Campbell and Orpik jawing at each other. He decides he needs to help out his teammates and his punches follow.  

 

Don't know what he was thinking when he decided to knock Orpik down to the ice and follow up with some gloved punches.

He was too emotional, pissed off, and lost his cool... because he'd been thinking about it since the first shift of the game.

It doesn't justify his actions in anyway.  It just makes his behavior all the more ridiculous.

Furthermore, I don't buy his tearful "not my intention" apology.  It was his intention to punch Orpik. 

Maybe he didn't want him to be carted off on a stretcher, but he wanted to punish him with his fists.

 

DIsgusting.  All around.

 

mccarty wanted to punish lemieux with his fists, and is revered here for it. can't have it both ways... sure the slew foot was pretty douchey, but many felt mccarty 'jumped' lemiuex similar to this altercation....

 

the only difference is the stretcher. had it not been brought out, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation...


I love Maltby, but to say he wasn't a ****** is a dis-service to his career of douchebaggery.


#119 kipwinger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:51 PM

 

I wouldn't call it dirty but I think it should've been an interference penalty.  When you're going to cut the timing that closely, if the player ends up not touching the puck and you deck him, that's on you.

 

It still in no way justifies Thornton's reaction.  I just think Orpik should've gotten a 2 minute penalty.

 

Finally, here's a video of the hit in slow motion (please disregard the crappy music and text commentary).  There's a slow mo of the hit at :46 seconds.  Play attention to the puck, it pretty clearly changes directions after hitting Eriksson's stick about a fraction of a second before the hit.  The only way this is a penalty is if someone wants to say that he targeted the head (but Eriksson's head and body moved right before the hit after Orpik had already committed) or that he charged (Orpik left his feet on the follow through).  Other than that it's just a good, well timed hockey hit.

 


Edited by kipwinger, 09 December 2013 - 01:00 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#120 e_prime

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:01 PM

 

mccarty wanted to punish lemieux with his fists, and is revered here for it. can't have it both ways... sure the slew foot was pretty douchey, but many felt mccarty 'jumped' lemiuex similar to this altercation....

 

the only difference is the stretcher. had it not been brought out, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation...

 

It's a slippery slope for sure. 


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.





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