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Shawn Thornton attacks Orpik (leaves game on stretcher)

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So your a big fan of womans hockey then. Checking will never be out of the game. It moves to fast to not touch anyone.

Hi - I'm F.Michael - maybe you don't know me all to well so let me take the time to introduce myself...

For those who've been here these past several years knows that I'm a proud member of the 'Knuckle Dragger Club' (well it's sorta unofficial)...Anywho - I am one of a handful of dinosaurs here at LGW who loves a good fight between 2 willing combatants, and still feels it to be beneficial to have a handful of guys on the roster who can take a reg shift, and get their noses dirty when needed.

Now - with that being said...As expected - there's disgust of what we had seen with last night's game...My point was that if we wish to see this form of behavior removed from the game at the NHL level - we may as well go ahead, and eliminate checking from the game along with fighting...Many may forget that much of these violent acts begin with what may be deemed a dirty hit from an opponent, and as both GMR, and Nev pointed out to me - Orpik has a habit of injuring opponents with questionable body checks, and is generally not well liked.

Long story short - eliminating fighting from the game won't keep it 'clean' to a level that some would prefer; as you rightfully pointed out - the speed of todays game combined with physical play via checking will most likely cause some injuries, and heated exchanges between opponents...I myself don't mind seeing these sorts of rivalries form since IMHO it creates some of the best hockey to watch (Red Wings vs Avalanche anyone?).

Well - that's my take on that.

Edited by F.Michael

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Marchand’s a ****.

Neal’s a ****.

Thorton’s a ****.

Orprik’s a ****.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

(suspend them all)

This, although I actually like Thornton. Both teams have guys that stir it up good then run away so this is not surprising. Too bad we didn't have Thornton when Datsyuk was "accidentally elbowed in the jaw".

esteef

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F. Michael,

You're being a little disingenuous by framing your argument like that. You just declared that as long as hitting is in the game, then stuff like this will always happen. Therefore, we should either take out hitting or leave fighting to help mitigate these types of situations. Of course, almost no one wants to take out hitting, so we have to conclude that fighting must be in the game. However, the situation is not as you say it is. Look at Cooke. He has had his face punched in many times because of his cheap shots. What actually caused him to change his game? A lengthy suspension. When you go after these guys' paycheck, then they'll start paying attention.

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Someone said on the other page "to all of you questioning if Orpik was hurt" (sorry, quote function on the site is not working for me or I'd quote it)

I don't think anyone was questioning if he got KO'd or not. The question was more of why he got taken off on a stretcher for it. I'll be honest, I thought the exact same thing, since it looked like he just got briefly knocked out. (which know now, is exactly what happened) Players get KO'd pretty much weekly in the NHL, and none of them get taken off in stretchers for it, so it is a legitimate question IMO.

And while Thornton was out of line, lets be real here, if Orpik wasn't taken off in a stretcher, this would have been a non-issue, and all of the focus would have been on Neals dirty hit instead.

I also agree that Neal should receive just as long of a suspension as Thornton for his vicious knee.

In fact he should receive a longer suspension IMO, that play was super dirty and an intentional attempt to severely injure another, unlike Thornton. But as the league is a joke when it comes to discipline, I fully expect Thornton to get the book thrown at him while Neal gets a slap on the wrist.

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If you think what Crosby did was dirty you need to re-evaluate your definition of dirty. I dislike Crosby as much as the next guy, but come on dude, he was playing the puck and tripped a guy. Let's not be the site that makes up s*** Crosby does when there is plenty he does that we don't have to exaggerate. You also need to look up what a slew-foot is. A good example is what Thornton did to Orpik before he started punching.

And you need to look up what exaggeration is, after all I posted a video look of another angle. I saw a skate hit a skate, I guess it was accidental right? I guess that's why he hauled his ass off the ice so fast instead of staying at the side of his injured teammate which was the point of my post.

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And you need to look up what exaggeration is, after all I posted a video look of another angle. I saw a skate hit a skate, I guess it was accidental right? I guess that's why he hauled his ass off the ice so fast instead of staying at the side of his injured teammate which was the point of my post.

After watching it again I think I can man up and say... yes, you are still exaggerating.

Yes, it looked accidental. May not have been accidental, but he was turning (which usually causes a leg to stick out), and trying to poke the puck away (which usually causes the stick to stick out). It looks like their skates connect and Marchand trips over Crosby's skate and stick. Probably should have been called a trip by the trailing ref. Nothing too menacing or underhanded, even if done deliberately.

After the contact, Crosby skates to the bench for a line change. At this point he had been on the ice for an average amount of time. He made his way toward the bench but stopped short of going off because of the whistle from the Neil kneeing. He lingered for a moment then got off the ice, this occured during the scrum in the Pens zone but BEFORE Thornton grabbed Orpik. He got off the ice and was replaced by another player, THEN Thornton attacked Orpik.

So, thanks for making me defend Crosby. Are you happy? I feel like Johnny Cochran.

Edited by Wings_Dynasty

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I hate the Pens as much as the next Wings fan, but what Thornton did was uncalled for and def not part of the hockey 'code.' Seems almost certain that he will be suspended. Hopefully Orpik is okay.

When I made the thread about bringing the law in, this is what I had in mind. Absolutely intending to injure and gutless. Thornton should not be allowed to play if he can't control himself. My stomach just turns seeing this stuff.

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When I made the thread about bringing the law in, this is what I had in mind. Absolutely intending to injure and gutless. Thornton should not be allowed to play if he can't control himself. My stomach just turns seeing this stuff.

So should Neal then because he intended to injure.

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F. Michael,

You're being a little disingenuous by framing your argument like that. You just declared that as long as hitting is in the game, then stuff like this will always happen. Therefore, we should either take out hitting or leave fighting to help mitigate these types of situations. Of course, almost no one wants to take out hitting, so we have to conclude that fighting must be in the game. However, the situation is not as you say it is. Look at Cooke. He has had his face punched in many times because of his cheap shots. What actually caused him to change his game? A lengthy suspension. When you go after these guys' paycheck, then they'll start paying attention.

Well - I'm not privy to the discussions in the Wild locker room, nor what took place between the Wild GM, and Cooke as he signed on with them as a UFA, but I would not be too surprised if Cooke's new GM/teammates/coaching staff advised him to 'tone things down a bit'.

But what you mentioned earlier - the suspensions, and heavy fines might be just what the league needs.

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I know neither players history regarding suspensions in the past; if I were placing a bet on this - I'd say Neal might get a 'slap on the wrist' (as in no games, or maybe 3, or 4 games max), and since Thornton's a legit 'tuff guy' he'll get nothing less than 5 - probably closer to 8 to 10 games.

Thornton has never been previously suspended, however I know for a fact Neal has been suspended at least one time in the past for a dirty hit in that crazy playoff series with the Flyers. Even though he's a repeat offender, I am sure you're right about the suspension lengths even though I think Neal's punishment should be just as much if not more than Thornton's.

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Thornton has never been previously suspended, however I know for a fact Neal has been suspended at least one time in the past for a dirty hit in that crazy playoff series with the Flyers. Even though he's a repeat offender, I am sure you're right about the suspension lengths even though I think Neal's punishment should be just as much if not more than Thornton's.

Thanks for the info :thumbup:

Now - I'd like to ask the LGW community here what their thoughts are on this...I can understand how many loathe what Thornton did to Orpik - however our very own McCarty jumped an unsuspecting Lemieux back in 1997...After learning more about Orpik's tendency of borderline hits, and not answering the bell (although I think we can all agree Lemieux was far more despicable) - do some here find what McCarty did as 'acceptable', or was it a cheap shot along the same level of what we saw with Thornton?

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So pathetic - the NHL is reviewing Neal's "kneeing" incident within the rule for kneeing? How is this any different that a deliberate elbow to the head blindside? So what if it was a knee. Should be an in person hearing with over 5 games suspension. He will get 2 for a dirtier play than most - a lot of head shots can be unintentional and end up being penalized a lot worse.

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Thanks for the info :thumbup:

Now - I'd like to ask the LGW community here what their thoughts are on this...I can understand how many loathe what Thornton did to Orpik - however our very own McCarty jumped an unsuspecting Lemieux back in 1997...After learning more about Orpik's tendency of borderline hits, and not answering the bell (although I think we can all agree Lemieux was far more despicable) - do some here find what McCarty did as 'acceptable', or was it a cheap shot along the same level of what we saw with Thornton?

Like I said earlier, the result makes everything look worse. Think Bertuzzi on Moore.

If McCarty beat Lemieux into a stretcher with those punches (which I'm sure he wouldn't have minded doing), the entire situation would be looked upon differently. Instead of seeing it as a great hockey memory, a lot of people would see it as another instance of hockey brutality with a tragic result.

Also, remember Weber ramming Zetterberg's head in the glass. If Zetterberg was taken away on a stretcher, I can see Weber getting 10 games out of that. Instead, he got s***.

Here, we have gloved punches which seriously hurt a player. We see gloved punches all the time that don't do nearly as much damage, if at all. I do think Thornton should be suspended, but this incident wouldn't even be on the news if Orpik didn't get hurt so badly.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I think Claud Julien nailed it, basically said:

Thornton obviously crossed the line, but so did team Bettman known as the Penguins.

If Shanahan wants to send a message:

Thornton: 10 games - disgusting and he knows it

Neal: 8 games - that wasn't kneeing this was an intent with the head as principal point of contact according to rule #48 ..didn't even show any remorse what an idiot

Orpik: phone hearing = less than 5 games

I am sure it's also just bad luck, that everytime a game goes out of hand the Penguins are involved...maybe thats the Mario L. & Sindy C. bonus...

Personally, I still love the type of grit and caring McCarty has shown that's the type of team bounding I love to watch. Like Downey said, you can hit the players but if you cross the line someone will come out and make you pay for it. Sometimes I think people are forgetting, that this hockey not a sport for the soccer mums and dads of the world :)

Edited by frankgrimes

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I think Claud Julien nailed it, basically said:

Thornton obviously crossed the line, but so did team Bettman known as the Penguins.

If Shanahan wants to send a message:

Thornton: 10 games - disgusting and he knows it

Neal: 8 games - that wasn't kneeing this was an intent with the head as principal point of contact according to rule #48 ..didn't even show any remorse what an idiot

Orpik: phone hearing = less than 5 games

I am sure it's also just bad luck, that everytime a game goes out of hand the Penguins are involved...maybe thats the Mario L. & Sindy C. bonus...

Personally, I still love the type of grit and caring McCarty has shown that's the type of team bounding I love to watch. Like Downey said, you can hit the players but if you cross the line someone will come out and make you pay for it. Sometimes I think people are forgetting, that this hockey not a sport for the soccer mums and dads of the world :)

You think you could knock off the baiting, it's obnoxious?

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I think Claud Julien nailed it, basically said:

Thornton obviously crossed the line, but so did team Bettman known as the Penguins.

Did he really call them Team Bettman?

And kipwinger is right, you need to knock it off with the Soccer Moms schtick, it does your arguments no favour.

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Unbelievable that Thornton is going to get more than Neal. That knee by Neal is a classic example of what the league wants to get rid of. It was intentional, he made no effort to avoid it, and the principle point of contact was the head. If Marchand was taken off on a stretcher, Neal would've got a hell of a lot more time off than he will. This is the problem with making calls and handing out suspensions based on the end result.

What Thornton did to Orpik was cheap. However, if Orpik gets up after that, Thornton might not even be suspended for it. Orpik throws big hits and plays on the edge, but he has his gloves superglued to his hands. He'll get into scrums and talk s*** but runs away when challenged to drop the gloves. He never answers the bell for anything.

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Did he really call them Team Bettman?

And kipwinger is right, you need to knock it off with the Soccer Moms schtick, it does your arguments no favour.

Nope team Bettman is my nickname for that team, after all the stuff they are getting away with.

Doesn't matter to me, its just annoying reading the same headlines everytime something like this is happening. If people don't like the game fine, don't watch it but stop pushing an agenda.

Neals hit could have been way worse the guy is skating with protectors on his knee through the head of a player, who happens to lay down on the ice that's disgusting and extremely dangerous. The department of player safety needs to look at the intent and then at the result, if Thornton is getting extensively more than Neal something in this league is really really wrong..if this happened to Crosby Mario and the whole Penguins organization would cry bloody murder.

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