Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

So when would you make a move and what type?


  • Please log in to reply
141 replies to this topic

#1 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,949 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:54 PM

Ok, as of this afternoon the RW have played 49 games and have 52 points. There are 10 teams ahead of us in points, 1 team tied with us, and 3 more behind us within 5 points. We have the second fewest wins of all of those teams with 21. heck even Florida has 20! Yikes.

The plus side is, we have played the fewest games at 49 and have 23 left to go.

So the question becomes, when would you start making moves and what type? Do you buy or sell or both?

 

My thoughts. Even if this team is 100% healthy, it is not a SC winning team. Not enough talent to do it. Now if every other team loses their top 2-3 players due to injuries, anything can happen. If I am right, buying high priced rentals would be a mistake. Buying old vets for a cup run would be a mistake. we don't have many trade pieces as it is, so no sense wasting the parts on a futile effort.

so I would focus on selling and if the right deal comes along then buy. I would start now. No time to wait and see what we have. We know that answer to that question.

 

The real question is who can we move?

bert-no value

Sammy-no value

Alfie-value to a SC contender, if he chooses to go-2nd maybe 1st round pick...maybe

Cleary-some value to a SC contender looking for some veteran leadership-ie late round pick 

Eaves-no value

TooToo-no value

Both of those guys have already passed through waivers and nobody wanted them for FREE

franzen-typing no value is redundant......

Quincey-some value to a PO bound team looking for depth on D, which is everyone. Should be able to get a 2nd round pick for him, maybe a 1st if it is in 2015

Gustavsson-some value, mid round pick if healthy

 

man, that is a lot of players and money without much real value. Wonder why we are struggling......

 

if I could move any or all of those guys, do it! If nothing else lets the young kids play more down the stretch. Also adds more picks that can be used for bigger/better deals over the summer.



#2 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,949 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:04 PM

Some other names that I would move in the right deal:

 

kindl-has some skill, size, and yes promise. Means he has value.

Almqvist-small and skilled, but is one of many LHed D and there are better prospects behind him. We could lose him via waivers, trade him for something.

Callahan and ferraro-both need to pass through waivers this summer or be on the RW squad. Both could be moved in the right deal.

Helm-yes I know, he is the "best 3rd line C in the game", but he is also injury prone. He isn't the best anything sitting in the trainers room. With his style of play and small size, will he ever play more than 65 games a season? He has value. A decent amount as well. if the right deal comes along, yes I would move him. He also is getting to the point where he isn't going to be cheap to pay. next contract could be pushing him into the 3.5-4 million per season range.



#3 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,833 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:10 PM

There's nothing wrong with making a move at any point in the season, regardless of standings.  That's what good GM's do when the right deal comes along.

 

With that said, I'd think about moving Alfie for sure.  We're not a Cup team even when healthy, and he's shown he can still play at a high level.  I don't see why he'd mind moving to a "real" Cup contender, and I can see teams wanting him for a Cup run.  

 

Franzen is another one I'd think about moving.  His health is an issue and he's 34 years old.  His goal scoring the last two years is below average. Also, it's not like his health and work ethic will get better in the next few years.  He's past his peak.  

 

As you said, the others don't have much value.  I wouldn't touch the young players, because you only trade those if you want to line up for a Cup run. We're not in a position to do that, so we may as well keep our future assets.  

 

I know this sounds like giving up on the season, but this season is a lost cause.  We went into it thinking this team could improve on last season's 2nd round exit, and right now, that would be a good result, even if we became healthy.  

 

I like the young players we've developed in the minors, and I think we should stock up on more picks by getting rid of the only vets we have with value. Obviously, Hank, Kronwall, Datsyuk and Ericsson (did I just say that?) are untouchable.    


Some other names that I would move in the right deal:

 

kindl-has some skill, size, and yes promise. Means he has value.

Almqvist-small and skilled, but is one of many LHed D and there are better prospects behind him. We could lose him via waivers, trade him for something.

Callahan and ferraro-both need to pass through waivers this summer or be on the RW squad. Both could be moved in the right deal.

Helm-yes I know, he is the "best 3rd line C in the game", but he is also injury prone. He isn't the best anything sitting in the trainers room. With his style of play and small size, will he ever play more than 65 games a season? He has value. A decent amount as well. if the right deal comes along, yes I would move him. He also is getting to the point where he isn't going to be cheap to pay. next contract could be pushing him into the 3.5-4 million per season range.

 

Forgot about Kindl and Smith.

 

I'd actually keep them for now.  Our prospects are mostly forwards, so even though those two players are underwhelming, they give us depth.  You have to figure Quincey is gone next season, so another spot will open up.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 22 January 2014 - 02:08 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#4 wings4thecup06

wings4thecup06

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 931 posts
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

There's nothing wrong with making a move at any point in the season, regardless of standings.  That's what good GM's do when the right deal comes along.

 

With that said, I'd think about moving Alfie for sure.  We're not a Cup team even when healthy, and he's shown he can still play at a high level.  I don't see why he'd mind moving to a "real" Cup contender, and I can see teams wanting him for a Cup run.  

 

Franzen is another one I'd think about moving.  His health is an issue and he's 34 years old.  His goal scoring the last two years is below average. Also, it's not like his health and work ethic will get better in the next few years.  He's past his peak.  

 

As you said, the others don't have much value.  I wouldn't touch the young players, because you only trade those if you want to line up for a Cup run. We're not in a position to do that, so we may as well keep our future assets.  

 

I know this sounds like giving up on the season, but this season is a lost cause.  We went into it thinking this team could improve on last season's 2nd round exit, and right now, that would be a good result, even if we became healthy.  

 

I like the young players we've developed in the minors, and I think we should stock up on more picks by getting rid of the only vets we have with value. Obviously, Hank, Kronwall, Datsyuk and Ericsson (did I just say that?) are untouchable.    


 

Forgot about Kindl and Smith.

 

I'd actually keep them for now.  Our prospects are mostly forwards, so even though those two players are underwhelming, they give us depth.  You have to figure Quincey is gone next season, so another spot will open up.  

 

So you don't think Alfredsson wouldn't actually want to move? Considering he moved his family to MI? And what about our prospects next year? With a few subtracted veterans, a healthier top 6, and some more production from the young guys, why wouldn't Alfie want to be a part of that?

 

As for Franzen, I agree with your sentiment, but I don't think many GMs would take on a contract of that length. I may be wrong though. 


temp 1

 


#5 BadgerBob

BadgerBob

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 331 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:15 PM

Quincey-some value to a PO bound team looking for depth on D, which is everyone. Should be able to get a 2nd round pick for him, maybe a 1st if it is in 2015

 

I would be pretty surprised if we'd get that good of a pick for Quiincey. The guy can't be paired with anyone on this team, makes stupid mental mistakes and hasn't produced anything. I'd love for it to happen though!



#6 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,833 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:18 PM

 

So you don't think Alfredsson wouldn't actually want to move? Considering he moved his family to MI? And what about our prospects next year? With a few subtracted veterans, a healthier top 6, and some more production from the young guys, why wouldn't Alfie want to be a part of that?

 

As for Franzen, I agree with your sentiment, but I don't think many GMs would take on a contract of that length. I may be wrong though. 

 

Alfie has one or two years left in the league.  He did move his family, but at this point, he has to decide whether he wants to play for a mediocre team, or go to a serious Cup contender.  If you think this team is a serious Cup contender next year, you're seeing things I'm not.  We'll be better and hopefully younger/faster, but not ready to challenge for a Cup.  


 

I would be pretty surprised if we'd get that good of a pick for Quiincey. The guy can't be paired with anyone on this team, makes stupid mental mistakes and hasn't produced anything. I'd love for it to happen though!

 

Still can't believe Yzerman fleeced that dope Holland for a first round pick in that deal.  Did any Wings fan actually get excited when they heard what the pricetag was?

 

We'll be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for Quincey at this point.  


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#7 BadgerBob

BadgerBob

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 331 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:22 PM

Still can't believe Yzerman fleeced that dope Holland for a first round pick in that deal.  Did any Wings fan actually get excited when they heard what the pricetag was?

 

We'll be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for Quincey at this point.  

 

He owes us one for that. Stevie! Give us Stamkos and yourself, they can have Kenny and Quincey! :lol:



#8 wings4thecup06

wings4thecup06

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 931 posts
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:26 PM

 

Alfie has one or two years left in the league.  He did move his family, but at this point, he has to decide whether he wants to play for a mediocre team, or go to a serious Cup contender.  If you think this team is a serious Cup contender next year, you're seeing things I'm not.  We'll be better and hopefully younger/faster, but not ready to challenge for a Cup.  

 

Maybe. I never said we were contenders, but honestly, I truly believe that once you get in you've got as good a chance as any. Hell, who knows what would have happened last year if we'd managed to finish off the Hawks. At times this year this team has looked very good. I guess I'm just being optimistic.


temp 1

 


#9 dat's sick

dat's sick

    Fear can hold you prisoner, hope can set you free

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,347 posts
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:38 PM

I disagree with the notion that we're not a cup contender when healthy. Maybe your idea of a contender is only the teams in the top tier (Chi, Pit, Bos, Stl, SJ, Ana), but I see us as being one of few teams that can actually pull an upset against any of the top teams. We have a core of experienced guys that can still go head-to-head with the league's best and match or outmatch them, and we have a support crew of good playoff guys like Franzen and Alfie and young and hungry guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Dekeyser, Smith. 

 

Don't give up on the season before we see what this team can actually do when healthy or close to it. Tonight, we're going to have a healthy defensive lineup for what, the 5th time this season? It's a good test against the Hawks, even if our depleted forwards and lack of #1 goalie will make it more difficult. 

 

As for moves, if we do so badly up until the trade deadline that we're basically out of it then I'd be 100% for moving Quincey/Kindl/Bert/Sammy/Cleary/Andersson/Eaves/Tootoo, basically any of the guys that are expendable. A 7th round pick, a conditional 6th, maybe a 2nd or 3rd, I'd take any return we could get. Though I doubt many would be interested. Alfie would have the most value, and sure, if he's not going to have the chance for a playoff run here I hope he gets traded so he gets a shot. Maybe he can still return for next season if he wants 1 more year and doesn't want to move his family anymore. 

 

Btw, as I understand it Franzen's contract is basically unmovable under the new CBA. If he retires we'd get a cap penalty for the remaining years. He would easily have a ton of value though contrary to what this board thinks. Big goalscorer with a reputation of being huge in the playoffs? Nah, who wants that...



#10 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,949 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:39 PM

May list of untouchables is much shorter than most. Howard, Dekeyser, datsyuk and Z are about it off of the current roster. everyone else could go in the right deal. As for the prospects, only Mantha is in that category. heck the only reason Z and datsyuk are there is because we can't do it emotionally-far to many would have a cow. Other that those 5, any and all COULD go if the deal is right. let me add, it has been a long time since the RW's had this short of a list. Now some can't be moved due to their contracts: NMC and NTC etc....



#11 Internet.Unknown

Internet.Unknown

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:41 PM

I think people could be underestimating the importance of the playoff streak to the organization. The Wings are currently at 22 consecutive years. Boston holds the record at 29. No one can convince me that the Red Wings don't want that record 30 years. Thirty! That's probably longer than many of the posters here have been alive.

 

After all the Cup Finals appearances and wins in recent years, after all of the HOF players do wear the red and white jersey, what is left for the organization to accomplish (besides, of course, more Stanley Cups)? To break the playoff streak. The Wings brass may not come out and say it, but I'm sure they're looking at Boston's record and salivating. I think Holland and co. will do everything they can to keep the streak alive. And if Z's performance at the end of last season is any indication, so will he.



#12 Richdg

Richdg

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,949 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:41 PM

Franze a big goal scorer? LOL 1 season in 9 where he had over 30 goals. 1. That is not a big goal scorer, that is average. But he can be bought out, and hopefully that now happens. Get out from his terrible contract this summer.



#13 Internet.Unknown

Internet.Unknown

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 268 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:43 PM

 

Maybe. I never said we were contenders, but honestly, I truly believe that once you get in you've got as good a chance as any. Hell, who knows what would have happened last year if we'd managed to finish off the Hawks. At times this year this team has looked very good. I guess I'm just being optimistic.

Cinderellas very rarely win the championship in any sport. They might push the eventual champs to a long (seven) game series. They might even make the Finals. But they don't often win it all. (LA was a regular season underachiever, not a genuine Cinderella). Last season the Wings were Cinderella and they fared as most Cinderellas fare. They watched another team hoist the Cup.



#14 VM1138

VM1138

    Legend

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,564 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:46 PM

There's no reason to wait for a certain moment.  Holland knows what this team is.  The players who are injured are known commodities.  He doesn't need to wait and see anything.  They've played consistently inconsistent all year long.  The time to make a trade is the moment someone will agree to trade, and unfortunately that hasn't happened. I honestly don't see any trade scenario working for the Wings or anyone else.  We will have to roll with what he have.

 

EDIT: And as to the contender discussion, as long as we make playoffs anything can happen. We don't typically get dismantled by the "elite" teams.  I think we can upset them.  It's the other underdogs I'm worried out.


Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#15 wings4thecup06

wings4thecup06

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 931 posts
  • Location:London, United Kingdom

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:54 PM

I disagree with the notion that we're not a cup contender when healthy. Maybe your idea of a contender is only the teams in the top tier (Chi, Pit, Bos, Stl, SJ, Ana), but I see us as being one of few teams that can actually pull an upset against any of the top teams. We have a core of experienced guys that can still go head-to-head with the league's best and match or outmatch them, and we have a support crew of good playoff guys like Franzen and Alfie and young and hungry guys like Tatar, Nyquist, Dekeyser, Smith. 

 

Don't give up on the season before we see what this team can actually do when healthy or close to it. Tonight, we're going to have a healthy defensive lineup for what, the 5th time this season? It's a good test against the Hawks, even if our depleted forwards and lack of #1 goalie will make it more difficult. 

 

As for moves, if we do so badly up until the trade deadline that we're basically out of it then I'd be 100% for moving Quincey/Kindl/Bert/Sammy/Cleary/Andersson/Eaves/Tootoo, basically any of the guys that are expendable. A 7th round pick, a conditional 6th, maybe a 2nd or 3rd, I'd take any return we could get. Though I doubt many would be interested. Alfie would have the most value, and sure, if he's not going to have the chance for a playoff run here I hope he gets traded so he gets a shot. Maybe he can still return for next season if he wants 1 more year and doesn't want to move his family anymore. 

 

Btw, as I understand it Franzen's contract is basically unmovable under the new CBA. If he retires we'd get a cap penalty for the remaining years. He would easily have a ton of value though contrary to what this board thinks. Big goalscorer with a reputation of being huge in the playoffs? Nah, who wants that...

 

:clap:


temp 1

 


#16 MasterPavel

MasterPavel

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 405 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:58 PM

Franze a big goal scorer? LOL 1 season in 9 where he had over 30 goals. 1. That is not a big goal scorer, that is average. But he can be bought out, and hopefully that now happens. Get out from his terrible contract this summer.


This what I hope for as well. We are not getting any return out of Franzen, and his contract is going to handcuff the organization in the future. Buy him out, go for a youth movement next year, and try and stock pile picks in 2015. If we do become sellers I hope they look for picks in the 15 draft. Alfie, Helm, Q, and Kindl should be shopped for picks.

#17 DickieDunn

DickieDunn

    http://redwingsandotherthings.wordpress.com/

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Belding

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:59 PM

If the Wings are still struggling near the deadline I talk to Alfredsson about being traded to a contender.  I'm also calling around to anyone who has a big scoring winger and offering Nyquist or Tatar, plus a young d-man.  If i'm not looking good for the playoffs, I'm also going to be offering any of my UFA guys for whatever I can get, even if it's just a 7th rounder or conditional pick.  I'm not planning on having Betuzzi, Samuelsson, Cleary, Eaves, or Quincey back anyway, might as well trade them.


Edited by DickieDunn, 22 January 2014 - 03:03 PM.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#18 unsaddleddonald

unsaddleddonald

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 748 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:41 PM

What type of move?

 

A move for a goal scorer. Something that has been needed for 5 years....



#19 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,671 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:37 PM

Move?

 

When?

 

Huh?

 

Not while Holland is GM.


What type of move?

 

A move for a goal scorer. Something that has been needed for 5 years....

Hey now...We have Franzen.

 

 

{note heavy sarcasm referencing Franzen as a scoring winger which we all know is a load of BS}.



'Evolution' created by Offsides

#20 frankgrimes

frankgrimes

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,182 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

Moves right now ? Nothing major, ship out some dead weight that might have a bit of value to some teams trying to reach the cap floor next season.

 

Trade for McLaren, Anthony Peluso to revamp the fourth line and try to go after Girardi and Moulson in the offseason.


kftx.jpg

 

The Offseason of truth ...

Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users