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Trade deadline fast approaching - who should we target?


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#561 kipwinger

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:35 AM

Imagine a line of Ville Leino and Linus Omark.  Buffalo just can't help stock piling all the talent.


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#562 number9

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:11 AM

i said before the olympics started that we should look at the other Austrian on the Isle's roster. Well after the Austria team were knocked out by the minnows from Slovenia today, Vanek's performance was shall we say, unnoticeable. In fact he has had a mare of a tournament and finished the comp with just a single assist -4 in 4 games. Grabner lead his team in scoring 5+1 in 4 games with a -2. As far as im concerned if we are to trade id go for the younger faster Grabner whose cap hit is half of Vaneks, and although he has 2 years left on his contract may well be the cheaper option in any trade. This Olympics hasn't done anything for Vaneks stock.


I agree with ur line of thought. Thing is we got our main pieces when healthy: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Alfredsson, Franzen. We need complimentary players like grabner or maybe Moulson. Are they amazing? No, just look at grabners NHL season and Moulsons time in buffalo. But look at what a guy like Moulson did when he was with Tavares. He was the wrist shot to Tavares's pass and setup, and it worked extremely well. (Snow got fleeced in that trade, as always). We need to build around our already existing core, not add more high contract core players like Vanek (this isn't the no cap area where you bring in Brett hull's). And I think we're doing that with Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, and Sheahan right now. Just look at how Nyquist does next to Z. It's very much like Moulson Tavares. Is Nyquist a superstar (yet)? No, but he plays like one with Z.

When healthy lines should be:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Tatar-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Sheahan-Weiss-Jurco
Miller-Helm-Abdelkader

The top line can stay poised and compete against any other teams top line, aka the crosbys, toews, ovechkins.
2nd line exploits Tatars and nyquists chemistry, as well as Zetterbergs and Nyquist chemistry. Bottom line is Z Carrys others like Datsyuk - while more talented - does not. Our immediate future core of Nyquist and Tatar should be playing with and learning from Z. He's our Yzerman right now.

3rd line is similar to the 2nd. Exploits Jurco and sheahans chemistry. Yet it also works for Weiss. In a 3rd line role he gets less pressure on him but also enough ice time to build his confidence. It also puts him with 2 young players, a sort of leadership role he's used to.

4th line: 3 guys with a history of chemistry together. All very speedy, all defensively superb, helm and Abby bring a slight offensive threat, and Abby brings grit. But the key is their defensive prowess. You can run them against other teams scoring lines and shut them down, giving our scoring lines better match ups against oponent lines.

Of course this ignores all our current cap issues and injury problems, but i think it would be a good starting point for next year. IMO there is zero need for a "top sniper" as many here suggest. We have our forward core and the complimentary pieces are emerging quickly. The glaring need is at D. We have our #1 guy in Kronwall, a complimentary piece in Ericsson, and another emerging Ericssonesque piece in DeKeyser. The rest are just blah right now and who knows if they'll ever step up or not. If we add, we add at D. And if Smith and Kindl can't hold their own right now, I don't expect Griffins and co to hold up either.

I'd add an offensive D in the offseason. Kronwall needs pressure off him in the quarterback deptarment. Even a guy like Corvo/Zidlicky would be a good bottom pairing PP specialist that we could use for puck movement while the young D transitions to the big club.

Frankly, Kronwall is good, but he's not a offensive d man type guy. More than ever guys like Smith and Kindl need a Lidstrom/Rafalski or like I said a Corvo/Liles to learn from.

#563 Dabura

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:35 AM

I'm thinking a package for Ott would probably have to include Kindl. His cap hit is very close to Ott's.


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#564 Dabura

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:45 AM

Re: Moulson - Most people don't realize this, but he was producing as an Isle both with and without Tavares. Played on a number of different lines, just kept scoring. And he's been good as a Sabre.


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#565 number9

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:05 AM

Re: Moulson - Most people don't realize this, but he was producing as an Isle both with and without Tavares. Played on a number of different lines, just kept scoring. And he's been good as a Sabre.


I have no idea about NYI line combos, just heard he and Tavares were prime together. He's done a lot worse in buffalo though (not that most wouldn't) his scoring average has dropped from around 0.8 - 0.9 to about 0.6.

#566 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:39 AM

So if Moulson produced with Taveres and not doing as good in Buffalo, then it would stand to reason he may produce again with Datsyuk/Zetterberg? I think so!

 

I am all for a package trade to acquire Ott and Moulson and even Tyler Myers if they want to throw him in! :lol:

 

That's $11.6M in salary coming our way, so we'd have to send some back and bet on Zetterberg going LTIR....and Franzen.  So, pretty much, ya, no, that won't be a trade that will be happening...but it sure would be nice!

 

So in all honesty, what do you think it would cost?  Assume that Kindl and Quincey are going back their way.  Almqvist can go with them as one of the prosepects.  What else?

 

 

edit: Salary could work if Z goes LTIR and Q and K are gone.  I think Andersson would be an involved player, we'd especially need his roster spot...


Edited by LeftWinger, 18 February 2014 - 11:43 AM.

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#567 number9

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:55 AM

So if Moulson produced with Taveres and not doing as good in Buffalo, then it would stand to reason he may produce again with Datsyuk/Zetterberg? I think so!

 

I am all for a package trade to acquire Ott and Moulson and even Tyler Myers if they want to throw him in! :lol:

 

That's $11.6M in salary coming our way, so we'd have to send some back and bet on Zetterberg going LTIR....and Franzen.  So, pretty much, ya, no, that won't be a trade that will be happening...but it sure would be nice!

 

So in all honesty, what do you think it would cost?  Assume that Kindl and Quincey are going back their way.  Almqvist can go with them as one of the prosepects.  What else?

 

 

edit: Salary could work if Z goes LTIR and Q and K are gone.  I think Andersson would be an involved player, we'd especially need his roster spot...

Not that I don't like Ott, I just don't see him being a player Babs wants in his system.

IMO Myers is terrible and not worth what we'd have to give up for him.

Buffalo wants picks and I believe Moulson will probably go for a 1st round pick straight up. If Zetterberg goes to LTIR (I believe Franzen will be back) then we could fit him in. As long as we're comfortable giving up that 1st rounder... which could be worth it. Weak draft class and we're already loaded on good prospects.

I don't want to move any D-men (Kindl) either unless we're getting something at D in return. We're already too weak there.



#568 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

I can see your point 9.  If all we got was Moulson, then that would work too! I admit, I do not know too much about Myers, but if our needs are a top line Defender, who do you think fits the bill and would we be able to afford to pick him up?

 

Lets say you traded our #1 for Moulson....now we need to address our glaring need at D.

 

Bogosian? Yandle? Visnovsky? Someone else? Cost?


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#569 number9

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:26 PM

I can see your point 9.  If all we got was Moulson, then that would work too! I admit, I do not know too much about Myers, but if our needs are a top line Defender, who do you think fits the bill and would we be able to afford to pick him up?
 
Lets say you traded our #1 for Moulson....now we need to address our glaring need at D.
 
Bogosian? Yandle? Visnovsky? Someone else? Cost?


IMO don't see any of them being available.

Zidlicky and Pitkanen could be available and would be decently inexpensive rentals, unless they do well we could always re-sign them too. Both move the puck well, which I believe is what we need

#570 Son of a Wing

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 03:58 PM

Why does everyone keep bringing up Bogosian?  He was just signed to a big (albeit fair) contract and has a full NMC.

 

The Jets have publicly stated before he's a piece they're building around and there hasn't been a single rumour anywhere he will be traded.

 

I get people like him, but there is literally 0% chance he's dealt.  


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#571 kipwinger

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:18 PM

Why does everyone keep bringing up Bogosian?  He was just signed to a big (albeit fair) contract and has a full NMC.

 

The Jets have publicly stated before he's a piece they're building around and there hasn't been a single rumour anywhere he will be traded.

 

I get people like him, but there is literally 0% chance he's dealt.  

 

Bogo's a good player, but he's not a superstar by any stretch.  I'd rather have Trouba.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#572 Buppy

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:32 PM

IMO don't see any of them being available.

Zidlicky and Pitkanen could be available and would be decently inexpensive rentals, unless they do well we could always re-sign them too. Both move the puck well, which I believe is what we need

Isn't Pitkanen out for the season? Or did something change?

 

Zidlicky would be a good fit, and workable under the cap if we move Quincey. I'd have to think NJ would want help up front though, they're too close to being in a playoff spot to really be considered a seller. We don't really have a lot to spare, especially if Hank is going to miss much time.



#573 number9

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:38 PM

Isn't Pitkanen out for the season? Or did something change?
 
Zidlicky would be a good fit, and workable under the cap if we move Quincey. I'd have to think NJ would want help up front though, they're too close to being in a playoff spot to really be considered a seller. We don't really have a lot to spare, especially if Hank is going to miss much time.

Yeah ur right about Pits injury, forgot about it

IMO NJ should be selling

Edited by number9, 18 February 2014 - 04:41 PM.


#574 LeftWinger

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:18 PM

Kindl, Andersson, Almqvist to NJ for Zids and Jagr...one rental, one to re-sign...

 

Trade Q to whoever wants him for whatever they offer....( :lol: that so I don't mention Morrow again!)

 

Waive Sammy again, Bert and Cleary both sit and Franzen is still injured.  Z is LTIR, even if he wasn't it would still fit under the cap...until Weiss gets back that is...

 

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Jagr

Abdelkader - Helm - Alfredsson

Jurco - Sheahan - Tatar

MIller - Glendening - Eaves

 

Kronwall - Zidlicky

Ericsson - Dekeyser

Smith - Lashoff

Marchenko

 

...when Weiss comes back you waive Eaves again or send Glenny back down. If Z plays, then you have to waive Cleary and Bert and send down Jurco...unfortunately


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Nestrasil, yes...Cleary....No!

Dump Q and K Now!


#575 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:27 PM

I have no idea about NYI line combos, just heard he and Tavares were prime together. He's done a lot worse in buffalo though (not that most wouldn't) his scoring average has dropped from around 0.8 - 0.9 to about 0.6.

Makes me think he'd be just as good with the Magic Man.


 

Bogo's a good player, but he's not a superstar by any stretch.  I'd rather have Trouba.

Trouba's the Jets franchise Dman.  Completely off the table.  He and Scheifele are the future of that teams youth.


Why does everyone keep bringing up Bogosian?  He was just signed to a big (albeit fair) contract and has a full NMC.

 

The Jets have publicly stated before he's a piece they're building around and there hasn't been a single rumour anywhere he will be traded.

 

I get people like him, but there is literally 0% chance he's dealt.  

If you want a trade with the Jets for D, you're not gonna get far with Bogo or Trouba offers.  Enstrom, Stuart and Buff apparently can be had at the right price.  But the Jets also want to push for the playoffs this season.  So whoever they trade, they want to do it in a way to stay competitive and in the playoff hunt.


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#576 Dominator2005

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:22 PM

I would offer E and Tatar for Bogosian. Jets are looking for LHD.

I like Tatar but Bogosian is Bogosian.
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#577 kipwinger

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:49 PM

I would offer E and Tatar for Bogosian. Jets are looking for LHD.

I like Tatar but Bogosian is Bogosian.

 

Personally, I think you're way overpaying for Bogo.  He's never really lived up to all his potential.  He was supposed to be like Shea Weber, a guy who does it all.  And while they're stylistically similar, Bogo doesn't score nearly as much and drops coverage more than he should.  He's certainly not bad, pretty good even, but Tatar will score 30 goals in one of the next two years, I don't trade him for any d-man that doesn't produce any more than Bogo does.


Edited by kipwinger, 18 February 2014 - 06:50 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#578 GoWings1905

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:21 PM

For once, I wouldn't care if Holland stands pat. If Z is out any extended period of time (which seems like a foregone conclusion), I don't see the Red Wings making the playoffs. Not only Z missing, but Franzen hasn't skated either. There isn't anybody available at the deadline that screams impact player and do we really want to give up assets for a rental on a borderline playoff team?

 

Play Sheahan and Jurco the rest of the season. Continue with Nyquist and Tatar developing for the future. I don't want too many more "transitional years" since the Euro Twins are approaching the end, but I'm not sure this team was a contender even with a full contingent of healthy bodies. 

 

Build for next season. The dead weight will be gone and there is ample cap space to address glaring needs like the defense. 


 
 
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#579 dirtydangles

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:48 PM

 

Personally, I think you're way overpaying for Bogo.  He's never really lived up to all his potential.  He was supposed to be like Shea Weber, a guy who does it all.  And while they're stylistically similar, Bogo doesn't score nearly as much and drops coverage more than he should.  He's certainly not bad, pretty good even, but Tatar will score 30 goals in one of the next two years, I don't trade him for any d-man that doesn't produce any more than Bogo does.

He is 23 - still growing as a Dman and has done very well playing big minutes. He will peak like most Dmen do later in his 20s (I actually don't remember Weber being a top dman at 23 and if he was a good as Weber we couldn't acquire him). He is big and a good skater. Having said that I agree Tatar is too much to add to E - I would offer something around Pulkkinen + E + 2nd. Having developed so many prospects I would prefer to include our 1st over our prospects so if E + 1st + 3rd did it I would be happier. 


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#580 pucktividi

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

About the same time last year Tatar was involved in every trade proposal on LGW,cause he's a smallish guy.

 

The history repeats,except Pulkinnen is the guy now.Let's see him first playing the big club games.Last I've checked he's doing pretty well on the Griffins.


Edited by pucktividi, 18 February 2014 - 08:59 PM.






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