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SerenityNow

Am I missing something? (re: Tootoo)

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Forgive me if this has already been discussed.. But am I missing something as far as Tootoo is concerned? Isn't he exactly what we need right now? Energy, hard forechecking, toughness, able to spark the team with a big hit or a fight if the situation calls? Does his style of play irritate the front office or something? I realize he isn't great defensively and he isn't gunna score a million goals but put him on a line with a couple guys who are and that seems like a pretty complete energy line to me. Call me crazy but it seemed like he got in trouble whenever he fought somebody, when he came back up from Grand Rapids for his "last chance" he promptly got in a fight and was never seen again lol Thoughts? Or answers for that matter?

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I imagine it comes down to utility. If you're going to play in Mike Babcock's bottom six, you need to be able to do stuff. You have to play solid defense. You have to be a solid PKer. You have to be good in any and all key situations. You have to be good in a demanding shutdown role, going head-to-head with the opposition's big guns. You have to chip in offensively every now and then. You can't be a liability (unless you're Cleary).

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That was going to be my next point lol. Cleary is none of those things, is a turnover machine and provides no spark. Yet he gets all kinds of playing time, I'd take Tootoo over cleary every day of the week. Granted I understand playing the young guys who provide a scoring threat. But you still need energy guys with a little snarl. It's a hockey fact

fixxxer likes this

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I imagine it comes down to utility. If you're going to play in Mike Babcock's bottom six, you need to be able to do stuff. You have to play solid defense. You have to be a solid PKer. You have to be good in any and all key situations. You have to be good in a demanding shutdown role, going head-to-head with the opposition's big guns. You have to chip in offensively every now and then. You can't be a liability (unless you're Cleary).

As far as I'm concerned Babcock does not like an enforcer, agitator In the lineup otherwise it's veryyyyyyt hard to bench cleary Bert eaves miller emmerton etc over hin

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Isn't that what Babcock was when he played? Lol I thought he was a tough guy

Edited by SerenityNow

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As far as I'm concerned Babcock does not like an enforcer, agitator In the lineup otherwise it's veryyyyyyt hard to bench cleary Bert eaves miller emmerton etc over hin

I agree with Dabura. I don't think that it is the enforcers or agitators that Babcock doesn't like. It is guys that can ONLY do those things and can not contribute beyond that.

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My point is, very few players in this league do it all.. Score, defend, forecheck, kill penalties and provide spark (fight/big hits) so that being the case they should have a couple guys that do a few of the things and come together as a team.

esteef likes this

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I still don't understand why they signed him in the first place? Holland and Babcock hate those types of players.

He did have one season where he hit 30 points in Nashville, but if you look at his career stats, that's an anomaly. Otherwise, he's played exactly the style that he played in Nashville. I'm not sure what else they expected from him? To be a great PK man and score many goals? That's never been his game.

Then again, they signed Cleary expecting him to apparently play well this season. Don't know why they thought that. Same thing with Sammy.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I still don't understand why they signed him in the first place? Holland and Babcock hate those types of players.

He did have one season where he hit 30 points in Nashville, but if you look at his career stats, that's an anomaly. Otherwise, he's played exactly the style that he played in Nashville. I'm not sure what else they expected from him? To be a great PK man and score many goals? That's never been his game.

Then again, they signed Cleary expecting him to apparently play well this season. Don't know why they thought that. Same thing with Sammy.

That's my issue.

I don't care that they're not playing him. I don't think he adds much other than staged fights and the occasional big hit, which often takes him out of position. I think Trotz basically benched him in the playoffs right before the Wings signed him, so I'm not sure what Holland was thinking. It's like he never even consulted Babcock or something. Throw on top of that the overpayment for him on too long of a term.

I also modified the thread title a bit to give some indication of what the thread is about.

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It is odd. Babcock fought Holland to bring him-or someone like him, here in the first place. Once here, he doesn't play him.

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cleary has 12 takeaways and only 6 giveaways this year, while Z has 27 takeaways and 25 giveaways, and toots is a solid 0-0. most of our players are - in the differential, while cleary is a plus 6. take it for what it is worth i guess.

source: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-turnover-plus-minus/2013/

Cleary doesn't have giveaways because he never has the puck.

With Tootoo I wonder if there was an off ice issue.

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The younger guys that we've been bringing up are also cheaper.

Not saying that's the only reason; just saying that it's a factor.

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I wonder if there was an off ice issue.

That was my thought as well. I get the vibe they told him not to fight and instigate because "that's not our thing" and he more or less told them to piss up a rope.

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We will never know for sure what Babs and Holland are thinking in not playing Tootoo, but I did notice that many of his hits came at the expense of losing his positioning; usually an offensive zone turnover where the Wings begin to transition into defensive hockey. Tootoo would step up and go for a hit instead of fall back and clog up center or take away a passing lane. I've wondered whether that was against Babcock's strategy, and Babs would rather play the situation by trying to get the puck back through a center ice turnover, or a retrieval off a dump in.
As you guys have mentioned, Babs and Holland wanted Tootoo here, and he's done just about everything we've expected him to. The only thing I can think of is that he cant (or won't) fit into the type of team hockey that the coaching staff have been establishing for the squad this year.

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I agree with Dabura. I don't think that it is the enforcers or agitators that Babcock doesn't like. It is guys that can ONLY do those things and can not contribute beyond that.

That strikes to my point tootoo is a valuable fourth liner all he can do is pk if you thinks that's his position that they need to pk well I think it's too narrow Edited by cnot19

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It is odd. Babcock fought Holland to bring him-or someone like him, here in the first place. Once here, he doesn't play him.

Is that true? I never read or heard that Babcock fought for this.

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That was going to be my next point lol. Cleary is none of those things, is a turnover machine and provides no spark. Yet he gets all kinds of playing time, I'd take Tootoo over cleary every day of the week. Granted I understand playing the young guys who provide a scoring threat. But you still need energy guys with a little snarl. It's a hockey fact

you have to understand Cleary has been taking up space for 3 years now. If Tootoo had been here 3 years and useless than of course he'd have an NTC. It's all about quantity not quality.

cleary has 12 takeaways and only 6 giveaways this year, while Z has 27 takeaways and 25 giveaways, and toots is a solid 0-0. most of our players are - in the differential, while cleary is a plus 6. take it for what it is worth i guess.

source: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-turnover-plus-minus/2013/

going to have to call buls*** on that stat, how is falling down and handing the puck over not considered giving the puck away?

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IMO we have too many "utility" guys and not enough diversity in our line up and they wonder why we don't score goals, our PP blows,defense is leaky, and we can't crash the net. Putting all your eggs in one basket don't work. Luckly we have some change with the young guns.

When our team is healthy there is barely any difference between our bottom six players.... maybe even parts of the bottom nine.

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Tootoo cleared a roster spot, but not a lot of cap space. They have almost $1 mil of dead space because of his contract.

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I seem to remember Tootoo's line creating a lot of scoring chances last time he was up.

esteef

His lines usually do. Tootoo is actually a pretty deft passer. It's a seriously underrated part of his game.

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Tootoo cleared a roster spot, but not a lot of cap space. They have almost $1 mil of dead space because of his contract.

But it's still $925k freed up. Means a lot when you need it. And the only people we have that would clear more are people who are much more valuable.

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