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MabusIncarnate

3/7 GDT: Devils 4 at Red Wings 7

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Anyone else think it's kind of crazy that tsn started off the season ranking the Wings around 12 and now they have them at 24th? Seriously? We're only better than 6 teams?

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4th line is nice

Miller-Andersson-Bert

There might be use for old Bert yet. Results are showing on the power play

Well... no reason to break them up right now, but I wonder if they can keep it up. They still don't look great at times, they're a slow bunch when they get stuck in the defensive zone. But all 3 are good at shielding the puck along the boards and they also all got decent vision and hands making them an okay offensive threat.

I wish Glendening could stop being an offensive black hole because just a little bit of offense from him would make him such a solid player. I wonder if Ferraro or Callahan can steal his job next year.

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Why take a guy who specializes on dealing with personnel? and make him deal with assets? I have no idea if you have experience in business, but as someone who does, my best guess is you don't

I think you misunderstood me, by no means do I think that it makes any sense to make Babs the GM. My point was that in sports a lot of times experience trumps education. There have been plenty of coaches/managers that turn out to be great front office guys. GM's deal with assets as well as personnel, same as coaches do. Babs might even make a great GM, but not only does it not make any sense for the Wings to make him the GM, I'm also pretty sure it's not something that Babs would even consider.

Edited by wings87

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Well... no reason to break them up right now, but I wonder if they can keep it up. They still don't look great at times, they're a slow bunch when they get stuck in the defensive zone. But all 3 are good at shielding the puck along the boards and they also all got decent vision and hands making them an okay offensive threat.

I wish Glendening could stop being an offensive black hole because just a little bit of offense from him would make him such a solid player. I wonder if Ferraro or Callahan can steal his job next year.

Got a good feeling about Callahan .... Glendening won't be in the league within 5 yrs guy has no skill with the puck

themcityblues likes this

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Got a good feeling about Callahan .... Glendening won't be in the league within 5 yrs guy has no skill with the puck

Solidly agree with this.

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This team could plausibly be #2 in the division and #3 in the conference come playoff time.

I have no idea how we're only two points back of the Bolts, but I'll take it!

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Got a good feeling about Callahan .... Glendening won't be in the league within 5 yrs guy has no skill with the puck

Everyone and his mom has a good feeling about Callahan. I'm not seeing it.

Glendening's no Datsyuk, but he's not supposed to be. His job is to shut down other players, kill penalties, agitate, win faceoffs, work hard, be physical. He's not the top-sixer Babcock is asking him to be.

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Jarnkrok was arguably our best prospect. People all around the hockey world weren't praising him to make Red Wings fans feel good. He's an elite young talent, and it's a big blow to lose him. That and the fact that we needed Legwand don't have to be mutually exclusive. We don't have to act like Jarnkrok's an overrated scrub who ANYONE WITH EYES could see was never a high-end player and was never going to be one. That's lame.

Along the same lines... it's easy to say now that we didn't in fact need Brunner at all and that OBVIOUSLY he was just a one-dimensional player who was gonna crash and burn blah blah blah. But, truth is, there's nothing to say he wouldn't have been a good player for us this season. Look at all the surprises we've had.

I guess I'm being a wet blanket. Apologies. I just feel like if we're gonna play the HA! EVERYONE WAS CRYING ABOUT IT BUT THE TRULY WISE AMONG US KNEW BETTER game, well, how many of us knew Sheahan would be playing and producing like a legitimate second-line pivot this season? How many of us knew Gustavsson would be the better goalie?

What has Jarnkrok done? I'm not asking at the pro level because it was obviously to earlier for that. But please explain to me in his hockey career what he has done for anyone to think he is going to be a point per game NHL player. On the 2012-13 Sweden WC A team he recorded 1 point in 10 games at -2. The year before that 1 point in 8 games. Look up Swedish players who exceled in the NHL, Zetterberg, Backstrom, etc and tell me the difference. Jarnkrok was a 4th line grinder on that team with that type of talent. Sure Jarnkrok posted somewhat similar stats in the SEL to those guys. Jarnkrok was a good prospect but I'm not believing for a minute he was going to be anything close to a Zetterberg and to be honest, this team has enough 3rd liners for the foreseeable future. We needed a real number two. Pav is going to be around for a little while and we have plenty of time to find a new number one.

On to Brunner it was actually very easy to see then. Anyone that watches the game conscious to the details with the ability to apply logic when analyzing a player could see it with ease. Although what I just described seems to be RARE now days and that is the truth. Talk about sheep, but thats another subject for a different place. Everyone was smoke screened by Brunners somewhat flashy plays he rarely pulled off and the fortunate points he was able to put up early on. The guy did put up a few at first but he scored them because of the line mates he played with. Nobody seemed to notice how many easy goals he didn't score because his shot was unreliable and weak. His lack of strength and desire to battle in corners or help out defensively. The guy sucked. For a quick moment after you ignored his clear flaws it looked like maybe he would just be one of those guys that just might somehow plug in with Z or Datsyuk and manage to produce ok points. It didn't last and once he got demoted he didn't do anything. He hasn't done much sense. I said it then and I say the same thing now.

What surpises did we have? Nyquist wasn't a surprise this year, it was clear last year this guy was serious. We seen enough of Tatar last year to know he had some serious talent too. Their stats in the AHL backed what we saw at first NHL glimpse. There was a clear difference between Nyquist and Tatar's first 8 games than compared to say Andersson or Glendenning. Talent is not that hard to spot, and when you spot talent and see hard work ethics combined with solid skating abilities and vision then you know you have something, very rarely you won't. Which Nyquist and Tatar had all of. Those guys were easy to spot from a distance. Last year I said those guys could be anywhere from top 3 forwards and at worst 4th to 6th forwards on a good team. Nyquist being likely a top 3 and Tatar more likely at the bottom of the top six. Sheahan did come as a surprise as in nobody thought he would walk in and be a guy ready to stick around from the start. Sheahan has shown no ability to ever be as good as Nyquist is going to be. Sheahan looks like maybe a really good 3rd liner. Regardless I guess he is still a nice gift for this roster to receive earlier than recently projected.

The reason I get into this guys. Is not to say anybody is stupid but let's start seeing the big picture and look at what we have going forward. Just think and analyze things, stop reading other peoples conclusions and spreading this negativity about our team and its future. A few people started this and everybody takes it for fact like it must be right. It's like social media advertising all the crap it does and people eat it up and don't question any of it. Use your own brain. Its sad really. This team and prospect pool excites me more than it has in a long time. Our team is really good and we got a lot more coming. The hardest part is going to figure out who we keep and who we trade off because of an over abundance of good players. We are not going to be able to afford it all. If we are missing a piece Holland will get it don't worry. He has been clearly trying but the right piece for the right price hasn't showed up at the right time. Free agency is hard to get a good player for a good price now days. A big piece is likely going to have to come via trade. We haven't had the chips to trade in the past. We have chips now but we need to cash those chips in on our current roster, we are re-tooling and we will have plenty of chips left over after we finish the process. That is when left over chips can be used to bring something big in that puts our team over the top. It's a very simple process to understand. It is exactly what Holland is doing. Holland didn't make that bad of moves with Sammy, Bert, etc. What happened here was simply a miscalculation. We knew Nyquist and Tatar were going to be good, but what we did not know is that they would 'already' be this good. He calculated we needed these guys to fill out roster for another season before we started cashing in the chips. Any one of us could have made that mistake. Some of you guys just have no concept of what these GM's are faced with when your trying to stay competitive, develop properly and transition these guys in at the right times. Ken Holland knows what he is doing and it becomes very clear when you break down and deeply analyze it as well as the situations he previously and will soon be faced with. This team is on a very calculated plan with constant projections of whats going to happen this year, next year, the year after. Holland knows decisions made today have to be parallel with what he has projected in three years from now for example.You just can't always make the right moves I don't care how intelligent you are. If you think Ken Holland is honestly stupid your a fool and need reevaluate your thought process and understanding of your own mind and the world around you.

Bring back the positive energy to this fan base and stand behind this promising team and for f**** sakes quit your B****ing. I just wish we could talk intelligently about hockey around these forums and not have to skim threw post of whiners every time something isn't perfect.

Oh one more thing. Remember Filppula, I told everyone here years ago how good this kid is and how important to our team he is. Look what happened when we got Weiss, most finally realized it. Fil made the Red Wings a much harder team to play against and increased our teams puck possession time. Most probably don't have the brain capacity to understand how much an extra couple minutes per game of a player on their team floating around with the puck on your teams stick increases your odds of winning games through out the season. Point here, appreciate guys like Franzen. Who only have a salary hit of 3.9 million per year who can clearly keep this team a float with two of the best players in the world injured. What a beast and what a shame for all you people who disrespect him any night he doesn't score 2 goals.

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I think Brunner had a chance to be a good player, if he could adapt to "the system" and grow into the role. Sort of like his attitude towards resigning (or his agent's), Brunner had no attutide for the team. That's why he's worthless. It's not that he doesn't have skill (remember the SO goal?)

Franzen may score goals but he seems easy to play against. Lazy, floats. Compare that to Fillipula who makes your team difficult to play against. For every goal Fil scored to every goal Franzen scored should be calculated 1.2:1.0

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Legwand has been the #1 C on a team thats biggest problem had always been forwards. I think his best line mate ever was that bum Radulov. Gotta think his numbers may increase now that he's got legit wingers.

I see a problem here. It's called negotiating new contract.

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Howard gives up 3 last night, one of which was a terrible unlucky bounce and another a complete defensive breakdown, and gets crucified by the fans after the game. The next night Gus gives up 4 and looks shakier than Howard yet the offense bails him out with 7 goals and not a peep about his less than stellar game. More proof that Wings fans will never be happy with a goaltender and will always be wanting "the next one" instead of the current one.

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Howard gives up 3 last night, one of which was a terrible unlucky bounce and another a complete defensive breakdown, and gets crucified by the fans after the game. The next night Gus gives up 4 and looks shakier than Howard yet the offense bails him out with 7 goals and not a peep about his less than stellar game. More proof that Wings fans will never be happy with a goaltender and will always be wanting "the next one" instead of the current one.

I agree. No way in hell Gus should have let Elias blast that buy him from the top of the circle no less. That started the whole thing for the Devils last night, but luckily we responded. I've liked Gus this year, he's been very very solid, and I don't know where we would be right now without him. But Jimmy is our number 1, and IMO he's played solid the last month or so.

I'd go back with Howie tomorrow at MSG.

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"Franzen has five goals and six assist for 11 points in the five games since the Olympic break"

Edited by SFwingsfan
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Howard gives up 3 last night, one of which was a terrible unlucky bounce and another a complete defensive breakdown, and gets crucified by the fans after the game. The next night Gus gives up 4 and looks shakier than Howard yet the offense bails him out with 7 goals and not a peep about his less than stellar game. More proof that Wings fans will never be happy with a goaltender and will always be wanting "the next one" instead of the current one.

Are we basing this off one game ? Howard has sucked almost all year, Gus has won us some big games.

Ekmanc and Detroit # 1 Fan like this

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Howard gives up 3 last night, one of which was a terrible unlucky bounce and another a complete defensive breakdown, and gets crucified by the fans after the game. The next night Gus gives up 4 and looks shakier than Howard yet the offense bails him out with 7 goals and not a peep about his less than stellar game. More proof that Wings fans will never be happy with a goaltender and will always be wanting "the next one" instead of the current one.

What it proves is that Wings fans, like fans of any and every other team, value winning above all else. If we're losing, everyone and everything sucks. If we're winning, everyone and everything is awesome (except for Quincey).

I will say, though: the Howard-never-makes-the-big-save argument is pretty weak. I feel like every game Howard plays there's at least one major stop that has everyone here saying, "Now that's the Howard we know!" There was definitely at least one of those in the Avs game. And then everyone turned right around and said, "He never makes the big stop!" Seriously?

Doesn't matter, though. Winning matters, and, for whatever reasons, we win with Gustavsson in net. That's mostly down to us scoring more when he's in net, but, hey, when deciding which goalie you want to ride, every consideration should be fair game. Of course, that's not how it works. Howard is getting paid an ass-ton to be a top goalie in this league and carry us to a Cup, so he's gonna get every opportunity to get back on the horse and regain the form which has mostly eluded him this season.

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Everyone and his mom has a good feeling about Callahan. I'm not seeing it.

Glendening's no Datsyuk, but he's not supposed to be. His job is to shut down other players, kill penalties, agitate, win faceoffs, work hard, be physical. He's not the top-sixer Babcock is asking him to be.

I don't expect him to be a datsyuk but when you think back to those yrs we won the cup our 4th liners chipped in key goals .... We need them to chip in at times (Daren McCarthy cup winner vs flyers) Joey kocur key goals ..... Glendening can't shoot to save his life

If he plays 3 yrs and gets 2 goals he's expendable .... Need more than penalty killing and physicality ... Our top 2 lines produce squat in a playoff round we need botto, 6 to chip in with key goals

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Howard gives up 3 last night, one of which was a terrible unlucky bounce and another a complete defensive breakdown, and gets crucified by the fans after the game. The next night Gus gives up 4 and looks shakier than Howard yet the offense bails him out with 7 goals and not a peep about his less than stellar game. More proof that Wings fans will never be happy with a goaltender and will always be wanting "the next one" instead of the current one.

It's never pretty with Gus, but all he does is get points. 15-4-3. He has more wins then Howard in 13 fewer games. Howard just hasn't been good enough this season, and it is imperative that he get going because we need him to get into the playoffs. Gus is gonna win, that's the given this season, but Babs will never hand the net to him. Howard is our guy, he needs to get wins. No excuses. They both play behind the same defense.

DatsyukianDekes likes this

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Stripping Howard of the net would be bad for his confidence, and we've invested in him long term. He's gotta know Babs still believes in him while trying to end this slump

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Are we basing this off one game ? Howard has sucked almost all year, Gus has won us some big games.

Nope. Ill be the first to say that Jimmy needs to pick up his game. What Im trying to point out is outside of the first two months Monster hasnt really been that much better. Hes getting more goal support thus hiding that fact.

Well Howard lets in bouncy crap goals last game while the 3/4 of the goals monster let in were pretty much perfect shots.

Ya its really hard to say all of those were perfect shots. When someone uses that same excuse for Howard its turned into "well he needs to come up with a big save for the team on one of those" yet the same is not true for Monster?

I will say, though: the Howard-never-makes-the-big-save argument is pretty weak. I feel like every game Howard plays there's at least one major stop that has everyone here saying, "Now that's the Howard we know!" There was definitely at least one of those in the Avs game. And then everyone turned right around and said, "He never makes the big stop!" Seriously?

Doesn't matter, though. Winning matters, and, for whatever reasons, we win with Gustavsson in net. That's mostly down to us scoring more when he's in net, but, hey, when deciding which goalie you want to ride, every consideration should be fair game. Of course, that's not how it works. Howard is getting paid an ass-ton to be a top goalie in this league and carry us to a Cup, so he's gonna get every opportunity to get back on the horse and regain the form which has mostly eluded him this season.

I agree it is a weak argument. Driving home from the Avs game all you heard on the radio was fans calling in saying Howard doesnt make the big save. Yet in OT Howard made an amazing save on the PK right before the Avs got the penalty. Then the defense completely breaks down and lets in an easy back door tap in and its all Howards fault. I agree the Wings need wins and Gus is getting them so we really should ride the hot hand for a couple games to see how it goes but people thinking Gus will be the savior that leads this team deep are delusional as the Wings wont be getting 7 a game in the playoffs but with how hes been playing Monster is likely to give up 4. It would be interesting to see Monster named the starter and how long it will take for those calling for him to be to turn on him. Id give it 2-3 weeks max.

Edited by GoalieManPat

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I think it was Dabura who mentioned that the Wings seem to score more when Gus is in net, and that inspired me to do some research and look up the actual data.

When Gustavsson is in net, the Wings score an average of 3.32 goals per game.

When Howard is in net, the Wings score an average of 2.43 goals per game.

They both have a save percentage of .912, but Gus has a lower GAA at 2.54 compared to Jimmy's 2.64.

I got the numbers from yahoo sports. Its also worth noting that there is some overlap, because I didn't do anything special to calculate exact numbers for games when one goalie is pulled in favor of the other. I just counted the goals for both goalies for those games. Anyway, that's almost a whole goal per game difference between the two.

I'm not trying to deflect the blame away from Howard (or maybe I am a bit), because he is ultimately responsible for helping this team win, but we have noticed the team plays differently depending on who is in goal, and the numbers support that claim.

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