GDT 3/16 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 4

[rick zombo 3,739]

Well I am not that upset because I expected a loss. Personally I've said it last year an I'll say it again it was a good run but it is really time for some serious changes. This has nothing to do with making the playoffs or not it simply can't be the Wings goal to just squeeze into the playoffs. This team went from: being the superior class of the NHL to a good team to behind the pack to a team fighting for the playoffs....that's not Wingsstyle it's unacceptable, period. Players are expected to perform to the highest levels night in and night out so should GMs. If I am the owner I'm telling Holland listen: This is your offseason to turn this team into the right direction, we need to get bigger, meaner and the defense needs a fix spend whatever it takes just do it...if you aren't willing to do so I am more than happy to promote you to become VP and let Steve Yzerman run the show. Maybe missing the playoffs will be the best possible outcome longterm, because no more signing over the hill and undersized guys it would (hopefully) lead to housecleaning. Imagine if this team would have been still in the west they might be competing with the Oilers, Flames...for one of the top 5 picks *lol*

I don't think Holland has ever not been given permission to spend to the cap. Beyond that, he can't throw money at this team's problems. I know you know this, so I'm not clear why you'd say "spend whatever it takes". We aren't the Sens. There's no internal cap.

The only reason I mention this is that sometimes we think there's an easy fix, or that Holland's not trying/dosn't give a hit anymore.

I know Holland has made his GMs share questionable moves. But I need to ask this question: if Illitch or whomever is now running the empire took Holland aside and threatened his job, what exactly could Holland d differently? Do we think he'd suddenly be like "oh s***, I better trade for Weber" as if he hasn't already tried?

It will take some time to get things moving in the right deirection, unfortunately. You can thank the NHL owners and Count Cap-ula's "parity".

Not like we were killing it with them in the lineup though.

That's true. But losing them didn't help at all.

[Richdg 267]

It was midway through the second before I even realized that Alfie was playing. He was a non factor. but then again he is 40+. Guys do run out of gas. Kronwall was -2 for the game after getting an assist on our goal.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Very glad to see this morning that Teemu Pulkkinen wasn't injured by Duncan Keith's hit to his head. Keith is a repeat offender, but the refs have "wing blinders" on when it comes to our guys getting this sort of treatment - evidenced by Cowen's (Ottawa) unpunished head shot on Datsyuk, November 23, 2013 - better known as the end of the Red Wings' season.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/16/5516474/blackhawks-vs-red-wings-duncan-keith-high-hit-on-teemu-pulkkinen

[wingfan1991 221]

We were 13-12. Definitely not top conference material.

Not surprising when you have guys like Bert, Abby and Cleary rotating between the top two lines.

Not sure where you're getting your stats we were 13-7-5.. And top 3 like I said. Even with Cleary and Weiss in lineup. No chance we be this bad or fighting with datsyuk zetterberg and helm fully healthy to compliment franzen Alfie Nyqvist Tatar etc.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Very glad to see this morning that Teemu Pulkkinen wasn't injured by Duncan Keith's hit to his head. Keith is a repeat offender, but the refs have "wing blinders" on when it comes to our guys getting this sort of treatment - evidenced by Cowen's (Ottawa) unpunished head shot on Datsyuk, November 23, 2013 - better known as the end of the Red Wings' season.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/16/5516474/blackhawks-vs-red-wings-duncan-keith-high-hit-on-teemu-pulkkinen

Barking up the wrong tree on this one. Keith has been suspended several times. He's not getting any sort of special treatment as your post suggests.

Also, Datsyuk is not in the lineup because of a knee injury. It had nothing to do with the Cowen hit. So that's a bit off base as well.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Roenick nailed it last night post game.

Fact is, we have no talent. You can't plug 3rd and 4th liners on the top lines and expect it to work, as the 3 goals in last 4 games illustrates.

Guys like Nyquist and Tatar are future solid 3rd liners, but let's face it, they're no superstars. The only prospect that has superstar potential is Mantha.

Even if we let all the old guys go in the off season, I don't see us doing much better next season. It will be a mix between declining vets and 3rd line kids....

Don't know how we are gonna get better anytime soon.

[roboturner 562]

OK, but does THEIR aim blow too? Or just THEY'RE aim?

Or if you said "the hair" really quickly it sounds like Their or They're. They all mean the same thing anyway but I would want facts to get in the way of ignorance. What the hell right?

[roboturner 562]

Roenick nailed it last night post game.

Fact is, we have no talent. You can't plug 3rd and 4th liners on the top lines and expect it to work, as the 3 goals in last 4 games illustrates.

Guys like Nyquist and Tatar are future solid 3rd liners, but let's face it, they're no superstars. The only prospect that has superstar potential is Mantha.

Even if we let all the old guys go in the off season, I don't see us doing much better next season. It will be a mix between declining vets and 3rd line kids....

Don't know how we are gonna get better anytime soon.

Are you really relegating those two to the 3rd line for the rest of their careers already??

They've played one season with the Wings.

They will improve their game.

Datsyuk was a 3rd line player his first year in the league, would you really have left him on the 3rd line as he got more comfortable in the league and improved his game?

[rrasco 1,312]

Guys like Nyquist and Tatar are future solid 3rd liners, but let's face it, they're no superstars. The only prospect that has superstar potential is Mantha.

Yeah, you know, because Nysquist has 17 goals in 42 games, good for most on the team. Let's put him on the 3rd line!

[SDavis35 140]

Roenick nailed it last night post game.

Fact is, we have no talent. You can't plug 3rd and 4th liners on the top lines and expect it to work, as the 3 goals in last 4 games illustrates.

Guys like Nyquist and Tatar are future solid 3rd liners, but let's face it, they're no superstars. The only prospect that has superstar potential is Mantha.

Even if we let all the old guys go in the off season, I don't see us doing much better next season. It will be a mix between declining vets and 3rd line kids....

Don't know how we are gonna get better anytime soon.

Guys like Nyquist and Tatar are close to scoring 20 goals this season. Nyquist as a top liner has more goals than Zetterberg in fewer games. I'm not saying they're future superstars like Zetterberg/Datsyuk, but they're going to be really good players for many years. We need to have a top line though, Nyquist-Franzen-Alfie are second line guys right now.

This team is working hard, doing good things but has no finish. When you get good chances you need to finish them, that's why we're in the spot we are. The players are a part of the issue, but next year they will all be better. We need leadership from guys who can get the job done offensively, and those guys are injured. We have a seriously good team when healthy, easily top 3 in the division. I'm looking forward to our future team, cause these guys are fun to watch.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I don't think Holland has ever not been given permission to spend to the cap. Beyond that, he can't throw money at this team's problems. I know you know this, so I'm not clear why you'd say "spend whatever it takes". We aren't the Sens. There's no internal cap.

The only reason I mention this is that sometimes we think there's an easy fix, or that Holland's not trying/dosn't give a hit anymore.

I know Holland has made his GMs share questionable moves. But I need to ask this question: if Illitch or whomever is now running the empire took Holland aside and threatened his job, what exactly could Holland d differently? Do we think he'd suddenly be like "oh s***, I better trade for Weber" as if he hasn't already tried?

It will take some time to get things moving in the right deirection, unfortunately. You can thank the NHL owners and Count Cap-ula's "parity".

That's true. But losing them didn't help at all.

I'm not talking about the cap, more about some assets. Hate to bring up the Legwand trade up again but if you package Jarnkrok + a good pick + a B level prospect maybe Buffalo would have started listenting ? I get it I really do, our centers are hurt and this team is having a hard time right now but this trade was only a shortterm fix, the main focus should have still been on the defense. This season is toast anyways I mean even if they make the playoffs facing Pittsburgh or Boston with that defense? Oh my.

What Holland can and needs to do differently is getting his priorities straight, he seems to be overpaying for depth but not for real good players for whatever reason. Also creating a fourth line others teams respect and fear really isn't too much to ask for, those guys aren't expensive and plenty of them can be found around the league. He just has to stop this stupid notion that a fourth line needs to rack up points that's simple not what a fourth line is supposed to do.

I agree with you about the cap NHL hockey has never been this unexciting in terms of UFA, trade deadline and even draft days maybe at some point the NBA, NFL commissioner will be moving on, so a certain new york weasellike lawyer can ru(i)n another league.

Please don't think I'm not thankful for what Holland has done, he did a lot of great things for this franchise but I think it's time for a "fresh" approach and a different type of Wingsteam, because let's be honest even if we would get Vanek/Moulson non of them is skilled to play the puck posession style. Also I don't see it as threatening his job he wouldn't be fired just moved up to become the VP so basically THE guy responsible for checking the GMs moves (boss).

Edited March 17, 2014 by frankgrimes

[LeftWinger 4,962]

Ok, Hossa's performance last night just proves that "The Choice" was wrong...fine, I knew it. BUT there is nothing to do about that now, except get someone to make up for it. Franzen, for all he does in spurts and spots, is not what Ken Holland thought he would be, so not only does Holland need to get a #1/#2 defenseman, he needs to throw top dollar out there to a big time scorer and game breaker.

I don't know if one is available, but even with Dats and Z in the lineup, we lack that pure scorer that can take over a situation on a dime. I love that Mantha is tearing up the Q, but even if he made the club next season that is a lot to put on a rookie. Looking at the UFA's for the summer, that Hossa-type just isn't out there. We will probably have a top 12 if not top 10 draft pick, and that would do wonders in a trade package to help acquire one, but who?

Anyhow, not to derail this thread I will save those comments for the other thread concerning next season's needs. I will comment here and saying how disappointed I am in last night's performance. Did I expect a win? Not really, but I did expect some compete. I didn't expect more overplaying pucks by Howard, I didn't expect to be embarrassed so much, I didn't expect to yet again give up a back breaking goal in the last 20 seconds of the period...or wait, did I? It's a sad day for me to watch this team struggle and not even compete anymore. Injuries are a huge problem yes, but the D and the G are bigger issues that NEED to be addressed...along with finding that shooter.

[VM1138 1,921]

Roenick nailed it last night post game.

Fact is, we have no talent. You can't plug 3rd and 4th liners on the top lines and expect it to work, as the 3 goals in last 4 games illustrates.

Guys like Nyquist and Tatar are future solid 3rd liners, but let's face it, they're no superstars. The only prospect that has superstar potential is Mantha.

Even if we let all the old guys go in the off season, I don't see us doing much better next season. It will be a mix between declining vets and 3rd line kids....

Don't know how we are gonna get better anytime soon.

Over a full season Nyquist would be pushing 30 goals in his rookie season. Maybe he's not flashy, but he's going to be a Franzen-type player. Not your #1 star but definitely the third part of the triumvirate of star forwards every team has.

Tatar is similar. His numbers aren't as good but he spent the first 20 games getting 6 minutes a night.

With Datsyuk, Z, and Franzen, that gives us five top forwards in future seasons when most teams have three. Then if Weiss gets back to where he was and Legwand continues to be steady, we are absolutely stacked at forward next year.

I'm excited about next year so long as we change at least three defensemen. It needs an overhaul.

[motorcitykid 42]

Very disheartening to see the final score after watching this team play some of their best positional coverage and defensive play in a long, long while. First 30-35 minutes of the game, I was so ecstatic because THAT was the gameplan going in, and they played it off to perfection. They worked as a team and I saw good things. But boy oh boy, we are in the quicksand now, and while NOT AN EXCUSE, this team is so banged up I really don't know if we can make it into the playoffs.

Anything can happen once the real season starts - yes, but Pavs and Hank are not 100% and they need the rest of the year off. Coming back to face Boston perhaps in the first round [yes, I know we've played them well] does not look promising. By no means am I writing this team off, like some and I am 100% NOT saying we have bottom of the barrel players ala SHANAHANMAN above me [is he on crack?], but I am not feeling very positive knowing the road ahead.

As for next season, it is cool to see all the Griffins up here showcasing themselves. Pulkinnen looks like a keeper after only 2 NHL games, as well. I'm not asking for much, aside from ridding ourselves of Bertuzzi and Sammuelsson.

We better beat Toronto tomorrow though, goddammit!!!!

[motorcitykid 42]

Very disheartening to see the final score after watching this team play some of their best positional coverage and defensive play in a long, long while. First 30-35 minutes of the game, I was so ecstatic because THAT was the gameplan going in, and they played it off to perfection. They worked as a team and I saw good things. But boy oh boy, we are in the quicksand now, and while NOT AN EXCUSE, this team is so banged up I really don't know if we can make it into the playoffs.

Anything can happen once the real season starts - yes, but Pavs and Hank are not 100% and they need the rest of the year off. Coming back to face Boston perhaps in the first round [yes, I know we've played them well] does not look promising. By no means am I writing this team off, like some and I am 100% NOT saying we have bottom of the barrel players ala SHANAHANMAN above me [is he on crack?], but I am not feeling very positive knowing the road ahead.

As for next season, it is cool to see all the Griffins up here showcasing themselves. Pulkkinen looks like a keeper after only 2 NHL games, as well. I'm not asking for much, aside from ridding ourselves of Bertuzzi and Sammuelsson.

We better beat Toronto tomorrow though, goddammit!!!!

[ShanahanMan 473]

Wow, quite a lot of push back.

Okay okay, so maybe 2nd liners at best. Sorry, but I don't see either of them being potential top line guys. Don't forget, it's not just about scoring but also defensive coverage as well and though Nyquist has been relatively solid in this regard, Tatar, Jurco and Sheahan can be pretty brutal in their own ends a lot.

Edited March 17, 2014 by ShanahanMan

[wings4thecup06 504]

As frustrating as this season has been, and continues to be, I think we're all lacking a little bit of appreciation right now. Our top 5 Cs are out, we've got a lineup full of rookies (practically) and banged up regulars who are punching way above their playing weight against guys who are better than them, night in night out.

What I have seen from this team the last month is nothing to be ashamed about. They have been and continue to be in every game. I see a team that is still competing hard and playing well, but because they are human and are without a legitimate 1st line and possibly 2nd line, can't put the puck in the net and make little errors that come back to bite them in a big way usually costing the game.

I believe as well that this team, when healthy is top 3 in the East. While many of you think this season is gone, and are quick to can Holland AND Babcock (the latter of which I find crazy), I actually think it's incredible we're still in it at this point which is a testament to this team and the coaching of Babcock (why he shouldn't be canned). Success comes in cycles and luck plays a huge factor into that too. This season is just one of those where things haven't gone our way and yes while we have some things that need repairing (D!) and guys that need to be waved goodbye (Cleary, Bert, Samuelsson, Q) this team is looking incredibly bright for the future with the guys we have coming up and the guys who we can put out there when healthy. Yes its frustrating as hell to see this team get busted by the Hawks, but last night it was to be expected.

[roboturner 562]

Wow, quite a lot of push back.

Okay okay, so maybe 2nd liners at best. Sorry, but I don't see either of them being potential top line guys. Don't forget, it's not just about scoring but also defensive coverage as well and though Nyquist has been relatively solid in this regard, Tatar, Jurco and Sheahan can be pretty brutal in their own ends a lot.

Well could you give them more than 60 NHL games to adjust to the higher standards of the league?

Up until this season they were playing against AHL level competition so it only makes sense that they are not used to covering NHL caliber forwards.

They won't ever pass that threshold if you don't let them get experience against top line guys.

Sure they might make a mistake here and there along the way, but if you don't make mistakes then you don't know what you have to improve about your game.

[wings87 1,290]

After taking a look at the standings, its not doom and gloom not quite yet... We are only 3 back and have 2 games in hand on both the Rangers and Capitals.

So LGW take a step off the ledge, wrap yourself in a warm blanket, and enjoy a hot cup of cocoa; because the Wings are still in the playoff hunt.

[Shaman 713]

After taking a look at the standings, its not doom and gloom not quite yet... We are only 3 back and have 2 games in hand on both the Rangers and Capitals.

So LGW take a step off the ledge, wrap yourself in a warm blanket, and enjoy a hot cup of cocoa; because the Wings are still in the playoff hunt.

As of today their chances of making the playoffs stands at around 30%. Is it better to try to rush the injured players back, risk further complications to improve that to 50%? Or if they do make it for them to get bounced in the first round? It's time to decide to shut Zetterberg and Datsyuk down for the season, let them use this period to get 100% healthy, and start fresh next season.

[wings87 1,290]

As of today their chances of making the playoffs stands at around 30%. Is it better to try to rush the injured players back, risk further complications to improve that to 50%? Or if they do make it for them to get bounced in the first round? It's time to decide to shut Zetterberg and Datsyuk down for the season, let them use this period to get 100% healthy, and start fresh next season.

I'm sure that's already been decide, neither of them is coming back unless we make the playoffs, if at all. What we have now is the team that will either get us to the playoffs or not, but I've rooted for them through 67 games, I'm not going to abandon them now.

[number9 3,297]

None of us can say fersure what caliber of player any of them will be. We can all agree they're capable 3rd liners right now. Is there a chance some will become 2nd line caliber? Yes. Is there a chance some will become 1st liners? Yes. The chance of being a 1st liner is slimmer but the chance is still there. Jurco is 21 for Pete's sake. He's just getting a taste and has been dependable, and still has around 5 years to grow and mature. He's big, fast, skilled. Got to think he has a lot of potential to rise above the 3rd line. Tatar's 23, still 3 years to grow, and he's been reportedly ready for NHL duty long b4 this year. His puck possession isn't great, and isn't outstanding at D yet, but wow is he dynamic, hard working, and hungry. I see him wanting to be a high caliber star more than any of them. Nyquist is the oldest and best all around. Right now he feeds off guys like Zetterberg and Franzen and has lots of success. I see him being mentored by a guy like Z to become another leader on this team, much like how Z himself was mentored by our other past vets. Sheahan has surprised me the most. Many said he was a career 3rd line C, but he's having a lot of success at that very early. Gotta think there's a possibility he can grow into a 2nd line roll

[Shaman 713]

I'm sure that's already been decide, neither of them is coming back unless we make the playoffs, if at all. What we have now is the team that will either get us to the playoffs or not, but I've rooted for them through 67 games, I'm not going to abandon them now.

When Luke Glendening and Drew Miller are getting third line nods, and their names were heard more than most of your 2nd and 1st liners, there is a problem. It's not about abandoning them, I would root for them if they were 0-67 right now, but I also know that this team needs this wake up call.

[wings87 1,290]

When Luke Glendening and Drew Miller are getting third line nods, and their names were heard more than most of your 2nd and 1st liners, there is a problem. It's not about abandoning them, I would root for them if they were 0-67 right now, but I also know that this team needs this wake up call.

I think there's a misunderstanding I didn't imply that you are abandoning them. What I meant was that I'm getting hope alive until they are mathematically eliminated.

[T.Low 1,011]

My first random hockey thoughts today were not if we'll make the playoffs or not, rather who all is going down to GR for the Calder Cup run?

Always look on the bright side of life.