jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Would anyone on here support me saying id be okay with bringing quincey back for less money? He's really not that bad, he just needs a solid shutdown d man to cover his mistakes and to try to get him scoring. Bi mean were not grtting our first rd pick back for him. May as well bring him back on a short/cheap deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Would anyone on here support me saying id be okay with bringing quincey back for less money? He's really not that bad, he just needs a solid shutdown d man to cover his mistakes and to try to get him scoring. Bi mean were not grtting our first rd pick back for him. May as well bring him back on a short/cheap deal. although i'd really rather not.. maybe i'd bring him back for about 2 years, 2 mill per if we can't find anyone else. 1 jimmyemeryhunter reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadgerBob 297 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Would anyone on here support me saying id be okay with bringing quincey back for less money? He's really not that bad, he just needs a solid shutdown d man to cover his mistakes and to try to get him scoring. Bi mean were not grtting our first rd pick back for him. May as well bring him back on a short/cheap deal. No thanks. He seems to bring out the worst in whoever he's paired with. 1 jimmyemeryhunter reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Would anyone on here support me saying id be okay with bringing quincey back for less money? He's really not that bad, he just needs a solid shutdown d man to cover his mistakes and to try to get him scoring. Bi mean were not grtting our first rd pick back for him. May as well bring him back on a short/cheap deal. On a one year deal for half his salary, sure. He's not as bad as a lot of people think, and I think most of that has to do with the idea that he's replacing Lidstrom or Stuart, that they traded a 1st rounder for him, and his salary. 1 jimmyemeryhunter reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Regardless of whether Detroit want Quincey back or not, I feel like he wants to explore UFAgency. In any case, if a defensemen is signed, it should be for 2 years. In 2 years one or two of Marchenko, Ouellet, or Sproul (or Jensen or Backman) should be ready. My money is on Kenny signing a older veteran or two to a short-term deal this July. A Scuderi/Zidlicky/Boyle type guy that's not going to be looking for a 5-7 year deal. 1 jimmyemeryhunter reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 I am absolutely amazed by the responses i got back, even the people who didn't want him back had diligent reasons. So thanks for that guys. I'm kinda thinking he'd be back for about 2 and 2. But knowing kenny, he may bring in an older vet in place of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadgerBob 297 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Regardless of whether Detroit want Quincey back or not, I feel like he wants to explore UFAgency. In any case, if a defensemen is signed, it should be for 2 years. In 2 years one or two of Marchenko, Ouellet, or Sproul (or Jensen or Backman) should be ready. My money is on Kenny signing a older veteran or two to a short-term deal this July. A Scuderi/Zidlicky/Boyle type guy that's not going to be looking for a 5-7 year deal. Dan Boyle sure would be nice! I donno if he's going to leave SJ though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyemeryhunter 2,747 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 No thanks. He seems to bring out the worst in whoever he's paired with. I agree to am extent. But he's playing a lot of hard minutes, 20:00+ per game and getting pk time. So its hard for me to blame everything on him. On a one year deal for half his salary, sure. He's not as bad as a lot of people think, and I think most of that has to do with the idea that he's replacing Lidstrom or Stuart, that they traded a 1st rounder for him, and his salary. That's what im saying man. He was brought in at a bad time, they over paid for him and he's overpaid, but none of that is his fault. He's not producing like he did in colorado, but he's been decent. It baffles me though,sometimes he makes some great, absolutely great defensive plays, and then gives the puck away right after. Ha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 God no to Quincey re-signing...not at half his salary, not at a quarter of his salary... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nawein 324 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 I wouldn't be too opposed to Quincey coming back. He has been better lately and he's not our worst defenseman. That said though I don't think he fills a need that we have. I know most of you won't agree with this but I think the bigger hole here is at a number 2 defenseman. E would be a great number 4 but I don't see him as a number 2. He still make too many boneheaded mistakes. If we could bring in a number 2 defenseman (Boyle on a short deal in the offseason) we could play DK with Kronner and #2 with E. That would be a solid top 4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 My money is on Kenny signing a older veteran or two to a short-term deal this July. A Scuderi/Zidlicky/Boyle type guy that's not going to be looking for a 5-7 year deal. I firmly believe this is the way to go, assuming we can't get a young stud. Boyle, Timonen, Salo - a high-class veteran stopgap who can play in the top four, if not on the top pairing. I'd actually take it a step further and say Girardi + a vet. Load up on D. Two additions, one long-term and one short. (Even when [insert promising Griffins defenseman] is ready, he's going to be a rookie. That's realistically two or three more seasons - on top of his rookie season - until he's the real difference maker we need. See: Brendan Smith.) On a related note - I had a really interesting chat with a Blues fan yesterday. (I have friends in low places.) He had a good, surprisingly well-informed (I'm thinking maybe he's a closet Wings fan) take on why we keep losing these games that we should be winning. He said, if you look at all of the aforementioned losses, e.g. this latest one to the Bolts, what do they mostly come down to? Is it that we just don't have enough firepower up front? Is it that Howard is clearly an AHL goalie? Or is it that our defense isn't up to snuff and is prone to making costly mistakes? Like, the Bolts game - were we overpowered by their monstrous forward corps? Were our forwards clearly clueless, no match for St. Louis, Killorn et al.? Or did the Bolts weather the storms they needed to weather defensively, then capitalize on their opportunities, which they knew our mediocre blue line would be giving them in bunches? I look at the Superbowl game against the Caps - we can score, we can't defend. I look at the most recent loss to the Panthers, 5-4 in the shootout - we can score, we can't defend. I look at the 'hawks game - it should've been done in regulation, but Brendan Smith is Brendan Smith. We can score, but we can't defend. Even without our top goal-scorer (Franzen) and a second-line center, we can score. Yet, even with a fully healthy blue line, we can't defend. I know this isn't really a revelation to anyone here, but I think it's interesting that we're starting to get a better idea of what our team really looks like, and all those scoring woes we thought might be the death of us really aren't much of a concern at this point, at least in relation to our defensive woes. I also think it's interesting that we seem to be going against the grain/conventional wisdom in thinking we can compete for the Cup without a rock-solid defense and/or goalie. Boston's got a rock-solid defense and a world-class goalie. The Blues have got a rock-solid defense and a very good goalie. The Rangers have got a rock-solid defense and a world-class goalie. The Blackhawks have got a rock-solid defense and a very good goalie. One thing I have to wonder is, Why would Alfie burn all of his bridges in Ottawa to win a Cup with us when our blue line isn't where it needs to be (as demonstrated last season)? I guess what I'm wondering is if he might've asked something to the effect of "That defense...will you be looking to bring someone in?" Perhaps he knows something we don't. Perhaps Holland has been planning on adding someone at the trade deadline all along. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) The issue with Quincey is that he's playing out of his depth. He's a third-pairing defenseman right now and we need him to be one of our better, more reliable, more clutch defenders. He should not be in the top four. He should not be playing big minutes. Because he's not high-end. Inevitably, he'll make a boneheaded mistake or two or three and it will cost us dearly. Because he's Quincey. Unfortunately, Ericsson's been hitting the bottle, Kronwall hasn't been all there, DeKeyser's a rookie, Smith sucks, and Kindl sucks. So what we have is a controlled mess. I do agree that he's been better lately, but let's not start pretending he's just this terribly misunderstood gentleman who, 200 years from now, scholars will agree was awesome. He has singlehandedly cost us games this season on mistakes that didn't need to be made. I mean, if he can keep getting better to the point where he's ultimately far and away one of our better defensemen, then sure, re-sign him (assuming there isn't a better option). But as things stand right now...I have a hard time saying, "But how are we going to replace Kyle Quincey?!?!?!" Edited February 10, 2014 by Dabura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 The belief was that Kindl and Smith would progress. They haven't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 The belief was that Kindl and Smith would progress. They haven't. Sure, there was hope that they'd progress. But if The Powers That Be were planning on any one of Smith/Kindl/Quincey really stepping up and solidifying our top four...that's not erring on the side of caution. It wasn't even a given that DeKeyser would continue to be a stud, or that Ericsson wouldn't regress. I mean, if it turns out we can't add anyone to our top four, and the line is, "Well, we really thought this was gonna be Smitty's year"...meh. Sorry, Alfie, we really thought this was gonna be Smitty's year. *shrug* I think if anything, we should be overstocking on quality D, even if it's at the expense of our forward corps. Granted, I wasn't saying this in the summer, because I now have the benefit of knowing our defense is unequivocally NOT where it needs to be this season. So I can't necessarily fault Holland for rolling with this blue line. Though now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I wasn't comfortable with Smith/Kindl/Quincey rounding out our top four. I'm not really sure why anyone would be. If we're trying for Cup contention, we need an actual top four, not a sort of elite-by-committee thing where every man is counted on to play lights-out every night just to get us into positive goal differential territory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Regardless of whether Detroit want Quincey back or not, I feel like he wants to explore UFAgency. In any case, if a defensemen is signed, it should be for 2 years. In 2 years one or two of Marchenko, Ouellet, or Sproul (or Jensen or Backman) should be ready. My money is on Kenny signing a older veteran or two to a short-term deal this July. A Scuderi/Zidlicky/Boyle type guy that's not going to be looking for a 5-7 year deal. i'd take zid for a couple years.. i've always thought he was pretty solid. (assuming there's no way boyle leaves the sharks) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) If you are talking a vet to be a stop gap and give some veteran presence then lets not leave out these: Willie Mitchell, Derek Morris, Stephane Robidas, Chris Phillips and I am not so sure that Holland won't give a shot to Doug Murray given the Swedish connection... others I wouldn't mind seeing in our top 4 are: Orpik, Girardi, Klesla, Matt Greene and Niskanen. All of which I would rather have than Q...or K for that matter. Boyle would be a good Vet to have in the locker room and on the ice, but not for anywhere near his current salary. Maybe, $4M per for 1 or 2 years. Edited February 10, 2014 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Sure, there was hope that they'd progress. But if The Powers That Be were planning on any one of Smith/Kindl/Quincey really stepping up and solidifying our top four...that's not erring on the side of caution. It wasn't even a given that DeKeyser would continue to be a stud, or that Ericsson wouldn't regress. I mean, if it turns out we can't add anyone to our top four, and the line is, "Well, we really thought this was gonna be Smitty's year"...meh. Sorry, Alfie, we really thought this was gonna be Smitty's year. *shrug* I think if anything, we should be overstocking on quality D, even if it's at the expense of our forward corps. Granted, I wasn't saying this in the summer, because I now have the benefit of knowing our defense is unequivocally NOT where it needs to be this season. So I can't necessarily fault Holland for rolling with this blue line. Though now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I wasn't comfortable with Smith/Kindl/Quincey rounding out our top four. I'm not really sure why anyone would be. If we're trying for Cup contention, we need an actual top four, not a sort of elite-by-committee thing where every man is counted on to play lights-out every night just to get us into positive goal differential territory. Dude, I'm going to call you out...I don't want to...but I HAVE to. Our very lives depend upon the telling of the truth. You were on the Smith bandwagon HARD all summer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I still believe in Smith, but I have lost all hope in Kindl. I hated when they drafted Kindl, never really liked him throughout his career, but like most others, got a little excited for him with his progression last season. Boy was I fooled! I actually thought for a moment that Q would be good for us too...soured on him pretty quickly though. So, for now I am for keeping Smith and dumping Q and K for what we can get for them. If nobody wants Q, I am for letting him walk away July 1st. We cannot waste another penny or that valuable roster spot on him... Edited February 10, 2014 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Either the Wings give players a chance to take a bigger role, or they continue to sign vets and keep the young players in smaller roles. A lot of fans seem to want them to do both. If they sign a vet, they complain that they're screwing the young players. If they open the spot up, then they're being cheap and/or lazy because they didn't go out and get a vet. Based on what they've done, it was reasonable to assume that one of Smith or Kindl would be a solid #4 defenseman this year. Further, because of salary cap restrictions, they could have signed Alfredsson or a defenseman. Alfredsson was the right choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Yeah, can't blame Kenny for not going after a defenseman last summer, since we were actually good in our own end and Dekeyser seemed to work so well. Now though, I think it's obvious that Q just can't be productive in our offense, and he's not reliable enough on defense to make up for it. Kindl looks like a lost cause; so disappointing after last year. I think we need a vet stop-gap, both a stay at home guy and an offensive guy. Zidlicky (doubt Boyle goes anywhere) and Greene would be great. Hopefully a couple years later, Smith would be ready for a top 4 spot, Deke a #1 shut-down, and two of our five prospects that will be out of options will be ready for a 3rd pair spot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 Callahan wants 7M and some dumb team will pay that. He has a whopping 10 goals and is 4 feet tall. All for Girardi though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 The belief was that Kindl and Smith would progress. They haven't. The difference is that Kindl has a couple seasons and a 100+ more games experience than Smith. Kindl apparently isn't going to be anything more than the soft inconsistent D man he is. There's still some hope for Smith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) The difference is that Kindl has a couple seasons and a 100+ more games experience than Smith. Kindl apparently isn't going to be anything more than the soft inconsistent D man he is. There's still some hope for Smith. Didn't like the pick back then and don't like it now either, he just isn't NHL material. As for Callahan wanting 7 million a year it's a lot of money, but the guy does it all I'd rather pay him 7 million (the guy has intangibles) instead of Vanek 9 ...I still think, Wings should have been in on Marc Frazer giving up a 6 rounder for a rugged physical defenseman, who can win a fight also is like nothing. Edited February 10, 2014 by frankgrimes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted February 11, 2014 No on Callahan. he isn't worth it. Always hurt, has he ever scored 30 goals in a single season? No. as for team needs, what? Our O is ranked 19th, the D is ranked 15th. What do we need to improve? How about the ST's? The PP is 22nd and the PK is 10th. Please stop with the injuries, both/all have been hurt. Forwards, D, and G. Again, go back to 08 and 09 when we made/won cups. top 3 in O both years. Top 5 in D one year and 20th in D the other. It is all about scoring goals. Scoring 3+ goals a game is king in the NHL. We win 75%+ of our games when we score 3 or more goals. We lose 90+ % of our games when we score 2 or fewer goals per game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted February 11, 2014 I'd take Callahan for 5x5 but no more money or term. He brings a lot to the table other than scoring. 1 Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
