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Andy Pred 48

UFA day looking up

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What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't? Kronwall is the better player. He's had more success. Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play). And he's a lefty, like Smith. Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).

Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre.

But a better mediocre team than last year’s with one of Boyle, Erhoff, Niskanen, or Gilbert IMO.

Add in a pinch of not-freakishly-bad health, and this team could surprise. Maybe.

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What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't? Kronwall is the better player. He's had more success. Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play). And he's a lefty, like Smith. Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).

Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre.

Just because you want to be negative doesn't negate facts. Boyle has never ever gotten less than 20 points. Even in the lockout season. Might as well say Datsyuk will get less than 40

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George Malik @georgemalik 21m

.@Mjurgh I call July 1st the "great disappointment" because even if KH signed everybody, Wings fans would still be upset.

Of course I'm disappointed when the Wings don't get the exact players I want. I'm convinced of my own good judgement in these matters lol. But I'm fully capable of settling for others, provided they're not 92 years old and clearly declining.

As for Malik...I loathe the guy. He's the absolute definition of a company man. I might put more stock in what he had to say if I hadn't spent the last 5 years reading him agree with every misstep Holland made, and then make excuses afterward as if Holland were a victim of fate and not a man who is clearly petrified by uncertainty.

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What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't? Kronwall is the better player. He's had more success. Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play). And he's a lefty, like Smith. Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).

Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre.

Okay instead of just being negative in response, why not offer up what you think they should do?

Boyle isn't mediocre, even at 38. He had an off-year last year and still posted 36 points. He is a known commodity. Niskanen is not (not saying I wouldn't like Niskanen), but I can see the inherent risk in bringing him in for 7 years at 6 per. Whereas bringing in Boyle for 2 around 5 million is much less of a risk. Ehroff is another strong candidate but who knows what he'll ask for and what kind of term he'll want. They are also gunning for a righty, so that makes things a little tougher to sort out. Basically gives you Niskanen, Boyle, and Gilbert as the top right handed candidates. I'm not so sure that Gilbert fits the top 4 d-man mold, but I could be wrong, I'm not super familiar with his style of play. In the end, your assessment of Boyle is far off base, and like any veteran, he can teach the younger guys (like ANY veteran can) if they feel so inclined. It's not a discredit to Kronwall, just an additional guy to play off of and get experience from. You're entitled to your opinion, but when the facts say otherwise, it's hard to see things the same way. We'll see.

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But a better mediocre team than last year’s with one of Boyle, Erhoff, Niskanen, or Gilbert IMO.

Add in a pinch of not-freakishly-bad health, and this team could surprise. Maybe.

Loading your team up with aging vets, and playing them a ton of minutes, INCREASES the likelihood of injury. It doesn't decrease it.

I think Ken Holland is the only person on earth who thinks that injuries are the product of magic and not wear and tear.

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if Kenny doesn't pick up a fwd then i think we can pencil in Mantha and id love to see the kid get a fair crack at it.

Without signing anyone he'd have to beat out Jurco. Also, Alfie will probably sign and we'll have this. I think it's pretty certain Mantha will start in GR.

Z-D-Alfie

Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Miller-Helm-Abby

Glendening

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Loading your team up with aging vets, and playing them a ton of minutes, INCREASES the likelihood of injury. It doesn't decrease it.

I think Ken Holland is the only person on earth who thinks that injuries are the product of magic and not wear and tear.

The only aging vet on that list is Boyle, and he's been surprisingly resilient (hasn't played less than 75 games since before the 08/09 season. They have kids that are ready for spot duty here and there, so they could supplement toward the end of the season to give the vets a break (in this scenario - Boyle).

Without signing anyone he'd have to beat out Jurco. Also, Alfie will probably sign and we'll have this. I think it's pretty certain Mantha will start in GR.

Z-D-Alfie

Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Miller-Helm-Abby

Glendening

I wouldn't say it's a certainty, he has a good chance to beat out someone, especially with how good he is. I'm happy with Jurco, but he needs to get the minutes necessary and he is the last one in that lineup that can be sent down.

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Okay instead of just being negative in response, why not offer up what you think they should do?

Boyle isn't mediocre, even at 38. He had an off-year last year and still posted 36 points. He is a known commodity. Niskanen is not (not saying I wouldn't like Niskanen), but I can see the inherent risk in bringing him in for 7 years at 6 per. Whereas bringing in Boyle for 2 around 5 million is much less of a risk. Ehroff is another strong candidate but who knows what he'll ask for and what kind of term he'll want. They are also gunning for a righty, so that makes things a little tougher to sort out. Basically gives you Niskanen, Boyle, and Gilbert as the top right handed candidates. I'm not so sure that Gilbert fits the top 4 d-man mold, but I could be wrong, I'm not super familiar with his style of play. In the end, your assessment of Boyle is far off base, and like any veteran, he can teach the younger guys (like ANY veteran can) if they feel so inclined. It's not a discredit to Kronwall, just an additional guy to play off of and get experience from. You're entitled to your opinion, but when the facts say otherwise, it's hard to see things the same way. We'll see.

I've already offered my alternative a thousand times. If you can't get Niskanen (and now Ehrhoff) then let the kids play. I'd rather miss the playoffs with Sproul than get murdered in the first round with Boyle. At least one of those things helps us in the long term (the kid getting experience). The other only gives a bunch of self congratulatory dummies another year to talk about "the streak" as if it's relevant.

Also, Boyle didn't have an "off" year. He's numbers are declining because he's old and losing his effectiveness. If anything, they're probably artificially high considering his team is WAY better offensively than ours is. If you think he's going to have some kind of a bounce back year on a team who didn't have a single 50 pt. player last year, I don't know what to tell you. Joe Pavelski had almost as many goals as our points leader had points. That's why Boyle's numbers were decent there, and that's why they'll suck here.

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I'd like Meyers as well....but it is gonna cost us Smith+....our 1st rounder is no longer in play, except next years (which hopefully stops being "The highest since 1991.")

Niskanen would be wonderful....but If we ended up trading for Myers and signing Boyle or Gilbert or even Erhoff, I think that D would be tremendously better than last years... Even if he couldn't get any help up front via UFA ( I would love to see "Chicago to buy out Hossa.") I think Mantha should get a hue looksee and I mean, stay up for every single Pre-season game and show them he is ready to net 50 goals in a Wings sweater...

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What could Boyle teach Smith that Kronwall can't? Kronwall is the better player. He's had more success. Plays a gritty/offensive game (the way we'd like Smith to play). And he's a lefty, like Smith. Boyle and Smith have very little in common aside from the fact that neither are likely to score 20 pts. for the Red Wings next year (sorry, I had to).

Like I've said before, you can justify it however you like, but adding mediocre players to a mediocre team just leaves you mediocre.

How and when to rush the puck, freewheel and create in the offensive zone. Surely you don't think Kronwall is better than Boyle at that.

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Also, Boyle didn't have an "off" year. He's numbers are declining because he's old and losing his effectiveness. If anything, they're probably artificially high considering his team is WAY better offensively than ours is. If you think he's going to have some kind of a bounce back year on a team who didn't have a single 50 pt. player last year, I don't know what to tell you. Joe Pavelski had almost as many goals as our points leader had points. That's why Boyle's numbers were decent there, and that's why they'll suck here.

To be fair, none of our scorers played enough games to get over 50. If you look on their pace, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Franzen, etc. all would have cleared 50 easy.

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

To be fair, none of our scorers played enough games to get over 50. If you look on their pace, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Franzen, etc. all would have cleared 50 easy.

And they'll get healthier with age?

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How and when to rush the puck, freewheel and create in the offensive zone. Surely you don't think Kronwall is better than Boyle at that.

he claimed kronwall could teach smith anything boyle could, and that smith and kronwall are very similar players. he then said smith and boyle were opposites (which contradicts the kronwall can teach smith anything boyle can argument) and followed up with a bold statement that boyle would get less than 20 points... it's like we've never had offensive dmen. Kronwall can put up 50 points on our "terrible" offensive team, but boyle can't put up 20 points. This is clearly a hate towards any potential moves Holland could make befoe we even see what happens and how it works out.

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To be fair, none of our scorers played enough games to get over 50. If you look on their pace, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Franzen, etc. all would have cleared 50 easy.

Better get used to it. Those guys aren't going to get any healthier as their careers go on.

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he claimed kronwall could teach smith anything boyle could, and that smith and kronwall are very similar players. he then said smith and boyle were opposites (which contradicts the kronwall can teach smith anything boyle can argument) and followed up with a bold statement that boyle would get less than 20 points... it's like we've never had offensive dmen. Kronwall can put up 50 points on our "terrible" offensive team, but boyle can't put up 20 points. This is clearly a hate towards any potential moves Holland could make befoe we even see what happens and how it works out.

It's not hate for ANY potential move. I'll all for spending money or assets on young guys. But I'll gladly admit that I don't like the idea of signing a 38 year old declining veteran. Also, the part about not getting 20 pts. was pretty clearly a joke, as evidenced by my smartassy rejoinder following it. Lighten up dude. It's hockey, we're not enemies and I'm not out to get you (or am I?). <------------- See, cocky rejoinder indicates that I'm goofing.

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So as to not be too disappointed, I'm going to say that I'd be happy with Ehrhoff and Radim Vrbata. I wouldn't be thrilled, but I could live with it.

Chances are that's asking too much as well.

We'll get Boyle and Alfie. I don't know why I bother pretending otherwise.

I'm good with Vrbata. We need a sniper like that...and then we could maybe win more than 2 shootouts.

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I'm good with Vrbata. We need a sniper like that...and then we could maybe win more than 2 shootouts.

I'd obviously much rather have someone who's harder to play against, but that's not happening, and I'd certainly rather have Vrbata than Alfie. You'd probably get the same production and hopefully Vrbata wouldn't run out of gas. For me it would all depend on the contract. Not more than 3 years, and not more than 4 million. 2 years at 3.75 would be ideal, but that's probably dreaming.

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It's not hate for ANY potential move. I'll all for spending money or assets on young guys. But I'll gladly admit that I don't like the idea of signing a 38 year old declining veteran. Also, the part about not getting 20 pts. was pretty clearly a joke, as evidenced by my smartassy rejoinder following it. Lighten up dude. It's hockey, we're not enemies and I'm not out to get you (or am I?). <------------- See, cocky rejoinder indicates that I'm goofing.

whatever dude, I'm still pissed we lost this guy

brettlebda22.jpg

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Looking at capgeek there are like a million options this years at D.

Boyle

Pitkanen

Volchenkov

Gleason

Meszaros

Ehrhoff

Salo

Orpik

Mitchell

Schultz

Tallinder

Robidas

Morris

Del Zotto

Niskanen

McBain

Stralman

Butler

Murray

Fayne

Falk

Gilbert

Corvo

Ellerby

Engelland

Wouldn't be surprised if Holland looked for a bargain deal outside of Boyle, Niskanen, and Ehrhoff

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Ehrhoff + Boyle seems to be a reasonably legit possibility (Pleiness and others have mentioned it), and we're in on Niskanen and Iginla. I think this could be a very interesting UFA Day. But I'm not getting my hopes up.

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This is kinda what I am thinking for a decent day considering KH behavior sometimes, as he may not do much ( note: not my best wish scenario, not that I wouldn't like something better than this just a guess and I don't think Iggy is coming)

sign Boyle, Erhoff, and Iggy somehows

Lines:

Nyquist - Z - Iggy

Abby - Dats - Alfie

Legwand - Weiss - Franzen

Glendening - Helm - Sheahan

edit: the Myers kid from buff is interesting by the comments their gm has made, and what some of their fans think is that he is worth a 1st, dman, and a forward or plug may be too much

D:

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Erhoff

Smith - Boyle

assuming we lose Tatar and some D men

My first line thread be gentle :scared:

And yes makes us older I noticed some folks not fond of it. A short term with a mix of good vets and good kids may get us further. And better goaltending.

Edited by yztheman

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