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PumpkinEscobar

Nice article on Mantha

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He has no real chance barring injury, especially if Alfredsson is back. Zetterberg, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, and Alfredsson have 5 of the scoring line wing spots locked up. Jurco should get the other, but Abdelkader probably will because they need to save a lineup spot for Danny Boy.

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He has no real chance barring injury, especially if Alfredsson is back. Zetterberg, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, and Alfredsson have 5 of the scoring line wing spots locked up. Jurco should get the other, but Abdelkader probably will because they need to save a lineup spot for Danny Boy.

I agree that his chances are essentially zero, but I think I read Holland mention something about willing to play him in the top 9 in the NHL, not top 6 like was originally thought.

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He's so d the same thing about a lit of prospects. 95% of what coaches and GMs say is pretty meanngless

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Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...

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Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...

This sentence makes no sense. What are you talking about?

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Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...

Need to add "world junior"

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Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...

Sorry he's not Wayne Gretzky....

It was merely pointing out he exceeded expectations. Which he did, and was named to the All-star team.

What exactly were you expecting?

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Sorry he's not Wayne Gretzky....

It was merely pointing out he exceeded expectations. Which he did, and was named to the All-star team.

What exactly were you expecting?

He's not Gretzky for sure. He is not even young Zetterberg or Hossa in terms of impact on the ice. He succeeds basically because of his big frame and basic hockey instincts which is ok for juniors and not really sufficient to become an impactful pro. All he did against well organized opponents is took the puck and tried to go through 2+ defenders. Obviously, it didn't work but he tried it again and again. But yes, he got his 11pts. If he does not improve his hockey IQ, at best, he could be a version of Blake Wheeler which is not that bad after all. Those juniors were kind of dissapointing for me as I expected a lot more from him. I remeber guys like Carter Ashton and Zack Kassian leaving similar impressions...

Edited by RusDRW

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He's not Gretzky for sure. He is not even young Zetterberg or Hossa in terms of impact on the ice. He succeeds basically because of his big frame and hockey instincts. All he did against well organized opponents is took the puck and tried to go through 2+ defenders. Obviously, it didn't work but he tried it again and again. But yes, he got his 11pts. If he does not improve his hockey IQ, at best, he could be a version of Blake Wheeler which is not that bad after all. Those juniors were kind of dissapointing for me as a fan of the Red Wings.

Zetterberg wasn't even a young version of Zetterberg. He small undersized and got pushed around too much. Once mantha adds some weight to his big frame, defenders will move out of his way or get plowed. The fact that he is willing to take the route none of the current wings roster will take is very promising in itself.

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Zetterberg wasn't even a young version of Zetterberg. He small undersized and got pushed around too much. Once mantha adds some weight to his big frame, defenders will move out of his way or get plowed. The fact that he is willing to take the route none of the current wings roster will take is very promising in itself.

honestly, I would be glad to be wrong with my assesment. Right now I see him taking the same development route as those guys I mentioned.

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As excited as I am about Mantha - if we're being honest, his presence on the Wings this season affects our cup chances exactly 0%. He isn't going to put us over the top, so I really don't mind giving him one transitional year in the AHL, a league that I believe he can he can score a lot a points in, while refining the other parts of his game.

We all want to see him play, but the last thing I want is for him to get small minutes on the bottom two lines with the Wings with non-offensive linemates when he could be getting big minutes in GR with other offensive and two-way guys.

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As excited as I am about Mantha - if we're being honest, his presence on the Wings this season affects our cup chances exactly 0%. He isn't going to put us over the top, so I really don't mind giving him one transitional year in the AHL, a league that I believe he can he can score a lot a points in, while refining the other parts of his game.

We all want to see him play, but the last thing I want is for him to get small minutes on the bottom two lines with the Wings with non-offensive linemates when he could be getting big minutes in GR with other offensive and two-way guys.

Or cripple the guy's confidence if he comes up and gets destroyed, for that matter. I'm more than comfortable with letting him ripen up in the AHL.

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We all want to see him play, but the last thing I want is for him to get small minutes on the bottom two lines with the Wings with non-offensive linemates when he could be getting big minutes in GR with other offensive and two-way guys.

I'm hoping we roll three scoring lines.

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I don't get why people say "11 points in the world juniors..." The kid scored 120 points with Val last year, he had 20 more points then the next player on the team an 30 on the one after that. Babs and Holland have both said how exciting it is to have a natural goal scorer like him in our system, and the first one in a LONG time! I'm stoked for how this kid is going to compliment our current kids

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I'm cautiously excited about Mantha...however, I don't put much stock at all in his 120 points in the QMJHL. I am a bit excited though as the production didn't completely come out of nowhere...he was seen to have enough ability to be drafted at 20th overall.

In terms of Junior stats though, I almost always ignore them unless they are put up by someone in their first couple years in junior and are clearly leading the pack (e.g. Crosby, Lindros, etc.). If you have a look at Daigle as an example....I think most think he put up huge stats, blew everyone out of the water, was drafted 1st overall and was a bust. In reality, he never lead the league in scoring in Junior (was never top 2). He probably went 1st overall though and came with a lot of hype because he put up very high scoring stats as a 2nd year player (even though not leading the league).

If you go back and look at scoring stats in junior, most leading scorers are guys in their 3rd and 4th years and most of those guys don't go on to have spectacular NHL careers.......so I really look for the ones that are putting up huge stats early in junior or I most ignore the stats (which is tough to do).

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I agree. I really like what I've seen from Mantha thus far. I watched quite a few games he played last year and he did dominate the Q but like you said, he also had a couple years on most players in the league and size over almost everybody. The real test will be to see how he performs against men in the American League this season. I'm really looking forward to see what he can do in training camp and preseason with the Wings as well as down in Grand Rapids. I definitely won't be missing any Griffins games again this year.

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I'm cautiously excited about Mantha...however, I don't put much stock at all in his 120 points in the QMJHL. I am a bit excited though as the production didn't completely come out of nowhere...he was seen to have enough ability to be drafted at 20th overall.

In terms of Junior stats though, I almost always ignore them unless they are put up by someone in their first couple years in junior and are clearly leading the pack (e.g. Crosby, Lindros, etc.). If you have a look at Daigle as an example....I think most think he put up huge stats, blew everyone out of the water, was drafted 1st overall and was a bust. In reality, he never lead the league in scoring in Junior (was never top 2). He probably went 1st overall though and came with a lot of hype because he put up very high scoring stats as a 2nd year player (even though not leading the league).

If you go back and look at scoring stats in junior, most leading scorers are guys in their 3rd and 4th years and most of those guys don't go on to have spectacular NHL careers.......so I really look for the ones that are putting up huge stats early in junior or I most ignore the stats (which is tough to do).

He was only in his second season when he put up 50 goals, and in his third season he led the league in goals and points.

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I'm cautiously excited about Mantha...however, I don't put much stock at all in his 120 points in the QMJHL. I am a bit excited though as the production didn't completely come out of nowhere...he was seen to have enough ability to be drafted at 20th overall.

In terms of Junior stats though, I almost always ignore them unless they are put up by someone in their first couple years in junior and are clearly leading the pack (e.g. Crosby, Lindros, etc.). If you have a look at Daigle as an example....I think most think he put up huge stats, blew everyone out of the water, was drafted 1st overall and was a bust. In reality, he never lead the league in scoring in Junior (was never top 2). He probably went 1st overall though and came with a lot of hype because he put up very high scoring stats as a 2nd year player (even though not leading the league).

If you go back and look at scoring stats in junior, most leading scorers are guys in their 3rd and 4th years and most of those guys don't go on to have spectacular NHL careers.......so I really look for the ones that are putting up huge stats early in junior or I most ignore the stats (which is tough to do).

You make some great points and hit the nail on the head in terms of how elite players usually excel in the CHL right from years 1-2.

What I think you're forgetting (or just not mentioning) is how rare it is for a player of his size to do it.

A lot of the players who put up a lot of points in their later years are quite often undersized players who eventually learn how to be more effective.

Their success just doesn't translate as well once they hit pro and play against men.

He was only in his second season when he put up 50 goals, and in his third season he led the league in goals and points.

Doesn't he have a really late birthday though? I remember in his draft year he was almost a full year older than most other high draft picks.

It can make a big difference at that age.

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You make some great points and hit the nail on the head in terms of how elite players usually excel in the CHL right from years 1-2.

What I think you're forgetting (or just not mentioning) is how rare it is for a player of his size to do it.

A lot of the players who put up a lot of points in their later years are quite often undersized players who eventually learn how to be more effective.

Their success just doesn't translate as well once they hit pro and play against men.

Doesn't he have a really late birthday though? I remember in his draft year he was almost a full year older than most other high draft picks.

It can make a big difference at that age.

Yea he's 20 in 8 days. 50 goals as a 17/18 year old isn't half that bad.

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In terms of his birthday...yes, if he was born 1 month earlier, he would have just finished his 4th full year in junior. He turned 18 before his 50 goal season even began (so it wasn't 50 goals as a 17/18 year old).

I kinda feel like I'm putting the guy down now, which is not the intent...I'm simply suggesting that I wouldn't put much stock in his junior stats.

Going back to his birthdate and other comments around size...I'd probably even those two out. I agree that it takes a bit longer for a guy his size to develop, so being close to 1 year older than a lot in his draft year may not be as big of a deal. However, one could look at his size and suggest it is easier for him to dominate against guys that are much smaller at 17 and 18 years old....but it likely won't help when he makes the jump to the next level.

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In terms of his birthday...yes, if he was born 1 month earlier, he would have just finished his 4th full year in junior. He turned 18 before his 50 goal season even began (so it wasn't 50 goals as a 17/18 year old).

I kinda feel like I'm putting the guy down now, which is not the intent...I'm simply suggesting that I wouldn't put much stock in his junior stats.

Going back to his birthdate and other comments around size...I'd probably even those two out. I agree that it takes a bit longer for a guy his size to develop, so being close to 1 year older than a lot in his draft year may not be as big of a deal. However, one could look at his size and suggest it is easier for him to dominate against guys that are much smaller at 17 and 18 years old....but it likely won't help when he makes the jump to the next level.

No I don't think you're putting him down. Just hesitant to classify him as a budding star. And that's completely fair considering he's just coming out of junior.

A lot of factors will go into the development of this kid... can't wait to see the result.

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Definitely not classifying him as a budding star yet, I need to see him compete against pros first.

Heck, I wasn't even classifying Crosby as a star coming out of junior....he dominated from day 1 in junior as a 16 year old and looked like a sure bet, but he was on the small side and I certainly wondered how he'd make in in the NHL playing against men. It's different here though, I figured he'd be a pretty good player regardless, I just wasn't ready to suggest he was a lock at being a STAR in the NHL.

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Definitely not classifying him as a budding star yet, I need to see him compete against pros first.

Heck, I wasn't even classifying Crosby as a star coming out of junior....he dominated from day 1 in junior as a 16 year old and looked like a sure bet, but he was on the small side and I certainly wondered how he'd make in in the NHL playing against men. It's different here though, I figured he'd be a pretty good player regardless, I just wasn't ready to suggest he was a lock at being a STAR in the NHL.

Exactly. You can be the most dominant player in juniors against kids, but playing against men is a different story.

Still why I think it's better for him to get his feet wet in GR first rather than making the big club off the bat.

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