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Nice article on Mantha


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#1 PumpkinEscobar

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:15 PM

http://www.thehockey...d-wings-roster/

#2 DickieDunn

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:29 PM

He has no real chance barring injury, especially if Alfredsson is back. Zetterberg, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, and Alfredsson have 5 of the scoring line wing spots locked up. Jurco should get the other, but Abdelkader probably will because they need to save a lineup spot for Danny Boy.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#3 Echolalia

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:38 PM

He has no real chance barring injury, especially if Alfredsson is back. Zetterberg, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, and Alfredsson have 5 of the scoring line wing spots locked up. Jurco should get the other, but Abdelkader probably will because they need to save a lineup spot for Danny Boy.

I agree that his chances are essentially zero, but I think I read Holland mention something about willing to play him in the top 9 in the NHL, not top 6 like was originally thought.

#4 DickieDunn

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:27 PM

He's so d the same thing about a lit of prospects. 95% of what coaches and GMs say is pretty meanngless

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#5 RusDRW

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:32 AM

Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

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#6 Nev

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:48 AM

Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...

 

This sentence makes no sense.  What are you talking about?


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#7 Rivalred

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:55 AM

Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...


Need to add "world junior"
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#8 Son of a Wing

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:48 AM

Why do people love to bring his 11pt is juniors as a kind of special success? He actually dissapeared in important games...

 

Sorry he's not Wayne Gretzky....

 

It was merely pointing out he exceeded expectations.  Which he did, and was named to the All-star team.

 

What exactly were you expecting?


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#9 RusDRW

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:10 AM

 

Sorry he's not Wayne Gretzky....

 

It was merely pointing out he exceeded expectations.  Which he did, and was named to the All-star team.

 

What exactly were you expecting?

 

He's not Gretzky for sure. He is not even young Zetterberg or Hossa in terms of impact on the ice. He succeeds basically because of his big frame and basic hockey instincts which is ok for juniors and not really sufficient to become an impactful pro. All he did against well organized opponents is took the puck and tried to go through 2+ defenders. Obviously, it didn't work but he tried it again and again.  But yes, he got his 11pts. If he does not improve his hockey IQ, at best, he could be a version of Blake Wheeler which is not that bad after all. Those juniors were kind of dissapointing for me as I expected a lot more from him. I remeber guys like Carter Ashton and Zack Kassian leaving similar impressions...


Edited by RusDRW, 02 September 2014 - 11:19 AM.

Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#10 Euro_Twins

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:17 AM

 
He's not Gretzky for sure. He is not even young Zetterberg or Hossa in terms of impact on the ice. He succeeds basically because of his big frame and hockey instincts. All he did against well organized opponents is took the puck and tried to go through 2+ defenders. Obviously, it didn't work but he tried it again and again.  But yes, he got his 11pts. If he does not improve his hockey IQ, at best, he could be a version of Blake Wheeler which is not that bad after all. Those juniors were kind of dissapointing for me as a fan of the Red Wings.


Zetterberg wasn't even a young version of Zetterberg. He small undersized and got pushed around too much. Once mantha adds some weight to his big frame, defenders will move out of his way or get plowed. The fact that he is willing to take the route none of the current wings roster will take is very promising in itself.

#11 RusDRW

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:30 AM

Zetterberg wasn't even a young version of Zetterberg. He small undersized and got pushed around too much. Once mantha adds some weight to his big frame, defenders will move out of his way or get plowed. The fact that he is willing to take the route none of the current wings roster will take is very promising in itself.

 

honestly, I would be glad to be wrong with my assesment. Right now I see him taking the same development route as those guys I mentioned. 


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#12 hooon

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:43 AM

As excited as I am about Mantha - if we're being honest, his presence on the Wings this season affects our cup chances exactly 0%. He isn't going to put us over the top, so I really don't mind giving him one transitional year in the AHL, a league that I believe he can he can score a lot a points in, while refining the other parts of his game.

 

We all want to see him play, but the last thing I want is for him to get small minutes on the bottom two lines with the Wings with non-offensive linemates when he could be getting big minutes in GR with other offensive and two-way guys. 


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#13 Echolalia

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:21 PM

As excited as I am about Mantha - if we're being honest, his presence on the Wings this season affects our cup chances exactly 0%. He isn't going to put us over the top, so I really don't mind giving him one transitional year in the AHL, a league that I believe he can he can score a lot a points in, while refining the other parts of his game.

 

We all want to see him play, but the last thing I want is for him to get small minutes on the bottom two lines with the Wings with non-offensive linemates when he could be getting big minutes in GR with other offensive and two-way guys. 

Or cripple the guy's confidence if he comes up and gets destroyed, for that matter.  I'm more than comfortable with letting him ripen up in the AHL.



#14 Dabura

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:24 PM

We all want to see him play, but the last thing I want is for him to get small minutes on the bottom two lines with the Wings with non-offensive linemates when he could be getting big minutes in GR with other offensive and two-way guys. 

 

I'm hoping we roll three scoring lines.


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#15 brett

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:05 PM

lets just say id be much more interested in watching this season if he is on the team.



#16 13dangledangle

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 09:08 AM

I don't get why people say "11 points in the world juniors..." The kid scored 120 points with Val last year, he had 20 more points then the next player on the team an 30 on the one after that. Babs and Holland have both said how exciting it is to have a natural goal scorer like him in our system, and the first one in a LONG time! I'm stoked for how this kid is going to compliment our current kids Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#17 toby91_ca

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:50 AM

I'm cautiously excited about Mantha...however, I don't put much stock at all in his 120 points in the QMJHL.  I am a bit excited though as the production didn't completely come out of nowhere...he was seen to have enough ability to be drafted at 20th overall.

 

In terms of Junior stats though, I almost always ignore them unless they are put up by someone in their first couple years in junior and are clearly leading the pack (e.g. Crosby, Lindros, etc.).  If you have a look at Daigle as an example....I think most think he put up huge stats, blew everyone out of the water, was drafted 1st overall and was a bust.  In reality, he never lead the league in scoring in Junior (was never top 2).  He probably went 1st overall though and came with a lot of hype because he put up very high scoring stats as a 2nd year player (even though not leading the league).

 

If you go back and look at scoring stats in junior, most leading scorers are guys in their 3rd and 4th years and most of those guys don't go on to have spectacular NHL careers.......so I really look for the ones that are putting up huge stats early in junior or I most ignore the stats (which is tough to do).



#18 krsmith17

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 11:09 AM

I agree. I really like what I've seen from Mantha thus far. I watched quite a few games he played last year and he did dominate the Q but like you said, he also had a couple years on most players in the league and size over almost everybody. The real test will be to see how he performs against men in the American League this season. I'm really looking forward to see what he can do in training camp and preseason with the Wings as well as down in Grand Rapids. I definitely won't be missing any Griffins games again this year.



#19 Euro_Twins

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 11:15 AM

I'm cautiously excited about Mantha...however, I don't put much stock at all in his 120 points in the QMJHL.  I am a bit excited though as the production didn't completely come out of nowhere...he was seen to have enough ability to be drafted at 20th overall.
 
In terms of Junior stats though, I almost always ignore them unless they are put up by someone in their first couple years in junior and are clearly leading the pack (e.g. Crosby, Lindros, etc.).  If you have a look at Daigle as an example....I think most think he put up huge stats, blew everyone out of the water, was drafted 1st overall and was a bust.  In reality, he never lead the league in scoring in Junior (was never top 2).  He probably went 1st overall though and came with a lot of hype because he put up very high scoring stats as a 2nd year player (even though not leading the league).
 
If you go back and look at scoring stats in junior, most leading scorers are guys in their 3rd and 4th years and most of those guys don't go on to have spectacular NHL careers.......so I really look for the ones that are putting up huge stats early in junior or I most ignore the stats (which is tough to do).


He was only in his second season when he put up 50 goals, and in his third season he led the league in goals and points.

#20 Son of a Wing

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 11:26 AM

I'm cautiously excited about Mantha...however, I don't put much stock at all in his 120 points in the QMJHL.  I am a bit excited though as the production didn't completely come out of nowhere...he was seen to have enough ability to be drafted at 20th overall.

 

In terms of Junior stats though, I almost always ignore them unless they are put up by someone in their first couple years in junior and are clearly leading the pack (e.g. Crosby, Lindros, etc.).  If you have a look at Daigle as an example....I think most think he put up huge stats, blew everyone out of the water, was drafted 1st overall and was a bust.  In reality, he never lead the league in scoring in Junior (was never top 2).  He probably went 1st overall though and came with a lot of hype because he put up very high scoring stats as a 2nd year player (even though not leading the league).

 

If you go back and look at scoring stats in junior, most leading scorers are guys in their 3rd and 4th years and most of those guys don't go on to have spectacular NHL careers.......so I really look for the ones that are putting up huge stats early in junior or I most ignore the stats (which is tough to do).

 

You make some great points and hit the nail on the head in terms of how elite players usually excel in the CHL right from years 1-2.

 

What I think you're forgetting (or just not mentioning) is how rare it is for a player of his size to do it.

 

A lot of the players who put up a lot of points in their later years are quite often undersized players who eventually learn how to be more effective.

 

Their success just doesn't translate as well once they hit pro and play against men.


He was only in his second season when he put up 50 goals, and in his third season he led the league in goals and points.

 

Doesn't he have a really late birthday though?  I remember in his draft year he was almost a full year older than most other high draft picks.

 

It can make a big difference at that age.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”





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