So, Evander Kane...

[Scott R Lucidi 443]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Where did I mention anything about money?

But keep drinking the Kool Aid if you can't see the issues with the current system. 

The only reason you "see" issues is the media, and Bark pointed out that the media has a huge bias and political angle in what they show you.  So who's really drinking the Kool Aid here, Marc?  I would say you are the perfect CNN target.

[kipwinger 8,521]

LOL, so cops killing unarmed/innocent people isn't a problem because the media reports on it?

I realize that you MAGA weirdos tie yourselves in knots trying to figure out how the media is to blame for everything, but even you have to admit that when the cops murder a guy for passing a counterfeit $20 bill it's fairly newsworthy right? Or should the media just stick to sports?

Edit: Also, don't half of you support the same group that stormed the Capital and beat a bunch of cops half to death? I love you pretend to care about cops (when you wanna own the Libs) but then you also don't seem to give a damn about them when your own angry mob tries to murder them. Hypocrites. At least I hate cops all the time.

Here's how much conservatives think "blues lives matter"...

https://images.app.goo.gl/pPC7heQc9zymDgL57

Edited August 10, 2021 by kipwinger

[marcaractac 3,962]

5 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

The only reason you "see" issues is the media, and Bark pointed out that the media has a huge bias and political angle in what they show you.  So who's really drinking the Kool Aid here, Marc?  I would say you are the perfect CNN target.

I would say you're sipping hard on the Kool Aid yourself. Not being an ostrich with my head in the sand does not make me a CNN target. I don't watch the news. I form my own opinions based in research and common sense. It's why I'm vaccinated, after all. But who am I kidding. You're the type who thinks a strong stock market means everything is fine. I would say you are the perfect Tucker Carlson target.

Edited August 10, 2021 by marcaractac

[Scott R Lucidi 443]

3 hours ago, marcaractac said:

I would say you're sipping hard on the Kool Aid yourself. Not being an ostrich with my head in the sand does not make me a CNN target. I don't watch the news. I form my own opinions based in research and common sense. It's why I'm vaccinated, after all. But who am I kidding. You're the type who thinks a strong stock market means everything is fine. I would say you are the perfect Tucker Carlson target.

You're a CNN junkie.  It's ok! 

[Scott R Lucidi 443]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

LOL, so cops killing unarmed/innocent people isn't a problem because the media reports on it?

I realize that you MAGA weirdos tie yourselves in knots trying to figure out how the media is to blame for everything, but even you have to admit that when the cops murder a guy for passing a counterfeit $20 bill it's fairly newsworthy right? Or should the media just stick to sports?

Edit: Also, don't half of you support the same group that stormed the Capital and beat a bunch of cops half to death? I love you pretend to care about cops (when you wanna own the Libs) but then you also don't seem to give a damn about them when your own angry mob tries to murder them. Hypocrites. At least I hate cops all the time.

Here's how much conservatives think "blues lives matter"...

https://images.app.goo.gl/pPC7heQc9zymDgL57

I voted Jorgenson.  But I know that cops, like all professions, are plagued by a certain group of bad apples.  And what's funny is that you guys think that is an absurd concept.  In my office of 12 people, we have a stinker or 2.  Police units are composed of 100's of people.  Of course there are going to be substandard employees in sample sizes like that.  But as Bark pointed out, the ill effects of bad police officers are not limited to those of color.  Bad cops discharge their weapons unnecessarily on all shapes, sizes, and colors of people.  That's because they are bad cops.  Not because cops are bad.  The media only reports white on black incidents, however.  This is done with the intent of keeping our people in disharmony.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

10 hours ago, kipwinger said:

LOL, so cops killing unarmed/innocent people isn't a problem because the media reports on it?

I realize that you MAGA weirdos tie yourselves in knots trying to figure out how the media is to blame for everything, but even you have to admit that when the cops murder a guy for passing a counterfeit $20 bill it's fairly newsworthy right? Or should the media just stick to sports?

Edit: Also, don't half of you support the same group that stormed the Capital and beat a bunch of cops half to death? I love you pretend to care about cops (when you wanna own the Libs) but then you also don't seem to give a damn about them when your own angry mob tries to murder them. Hypocrites. At least I hate cops all the time.

Here's how much conservatives think "blues lives matter"...

https://images.app.goo.gl/pPC7heQc9z

 

Yeah. A few hundred rioters represent the entirety of 75 million Trump voters. Just cant help yourself with the group identity politics. That is so MSM. The actual truth is that the majority of GOP voters do not support what happened on Jan 6th. 

Is a Police shooting newsworthy? Absolutely. Does it justify the entire ACAB narrative? Of course not. But the MSM pushes that narrative anyway. Does the 0.0000027% of Police interactions that result in the death of a civilian prove a systemic problem or a broken system? Okay LeBron.

14 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Where did I mention anything about money?

But keep drinking the Kool Aid if you can't see the issues with the current system. 

Where did I say there weren't problems? I didn't. I said the system isn't "broken". Because it isn't. Show me any real data that says otherwise. No "system" is perfect. Improvements can and should always be made. That's a big difference.

[marcaractac 3,962]

12 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

You're a CNN junkie.  It's ok! 

I'm Canadian. Why would I watch an American news network?

But hey, you keep doin' you with your whole being a cop murderer apologist and all.

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Where did I say there weren't problems? I didn't. I said the system isn't "broken". Because it isn't. Show me any real data that says otherwise. No "system" is perfect. Improvements can and should always be made. That's a big difference.

A system that allows any literal idiot to hold a weapon with authority seems pretty broken to me. And I really shouldn't have to do your research for you. 

[marcaractac 3,962]

12 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I voted Jorgenson.  But I know that cops, like all professions, are plagued by a certain group of bad apples.  And what's funny is that you guys think that is an absurd concept.  In my office of 12 people, we have a stinker or 2.  Police units are composed of 100's of people.  Of course there are going to be substandard employees in sample sizes like that.  But as Bark pointed out, the ill effects of bad police officers are not limited to those of color.  Bad cops discharge their weapons unnecessarily on all shapes, sizes, and colors of people.  That's because they are bad cops.  Not because cops are bad.  The media only reports white on black incidents, however.  This is done with the intent of keeping our people in disharmony.

The difference is the stinker or two in your office aren't ******* murdering innocent people. 

[kipwinger 8,521]

8 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yeah. A few hundred rioters represent the entirety of 75 million Trump voters. Just cant help yourself with the group identity politics. That is so MSM. The actual truth is that the majority of GOP voters do not support what happened on Jan 6th. 

Is a Police shooting newsworthy? Absolutely. Does it justify the entire ACAB narrative? Of course not. But the MSM pushes that narrative anyway. Does the 0.0000027% of Police interactions that result in the death of a civilian prove a systemic problem or a broken system? Okay LeBron.

Where did I say there weren't problems? I didn't. I said the system isn't "broken". Because it isn't. Show me any real data that says otherwise. No "system" is perfect. Improvements can and should always be made. That's a big difference.

I live in DC and work blocks from the Capital. If you think it was "a few hundred rioters" you're on crack. But I'm not surprised you'd bend reality to fit a political narrative. Your people literally thrive on it.

[F.Michael 4,590]

y'all are f-ing retarded

[marcaractac 3,962]

13 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Most regular cops make like 40K a year. But they can boost that to 80K+ a year if they work overtime. Which is happening a lot, since there isn't exactly a rush to become a police officer in the United States right now.

The fix in my mind is you make being a police officer a standard 60K-80K job. With the job requiring some type of college equivalency. Like a 4 year program that is half police academy, and half academics with a focus in criminal justice. Make the job more attractive to educated earners, and weed out the morons with education.

Problem is most intelligent people don't wanna be patrol/beat cops. They're going to push for detective or higher federal departments.

I don't disagree with this at all. Perhaps have the new cops coming out of college do the patrol s*** and earn their way up after a few short years? Like, you'll get there, you just have to pay your dues type of deal. Much like everyone SHOULD have to do time working in customer service when young to curb the Karen epidemic. 

Hell, despite getting my Engineering degree in 2019, I still have to put in 4 years before I can take the test to become a professional engineer. So there is precedence for such a thing. 

[kipwinger 8,521]

17 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

That's a bit disingenuous. I'm sure 99% of "Libs" don't identify with antifa or BLM disrupting city centers and attacking people. Just like most "MAGA" don't identify with Qtards storming the capital.

As a side note, I find the constant "JAN 6 WAS A LITERAL COUP TAKEOVER OF THE GOVERNMENT" narrative, possibly one of the most retarded narratives. These are people who believe the earth is flat, anyone with over a million dollars is a reptile, and proceeded to stand around and take selfies once they were inside the capital building. Largely unarmed, disorganized, with no real goal in mind protesters/vandals.

Hell, antifa did a better job for a few weeks (though still laughable) in Seattle when they took over a few city blocks and declared their own nation.

Most regular cops make like 40K a year. But they can boost that to 80K+ a year if they work overtime. Which is happening a lot, since there isn't exactly a rush to become a police officer in the United States right now.

The fix in my mind is you make being a police officer a standard 60K-80K job. With the job requiring some type of college equivalency. Like a 4 year program that is half police academy, and half academics with a focus in criminal justice. Make the job more attractive to educated earners, and weed out the morons with education.

Problem is most intelligent people don't wanna be patrol/beat cops. They're going to push for detective or higher federal departments.

I'm not a Lib, so I don't speak for them. However,  I would say that most Libs I know DO support BLM or Antifa. That's the point I'm making. MAGA folks claim to respect the cops when it's a convenient argument to beat the Libs with, but we all saw (in person or on national tv) how much they respect cops when it mattered. Libs don't say they support BLM one day and then join a mob and beat black guys with flag poles the next. And if some Lib DID do that the rest of them would probably brand him a racist and ostracize him.

As far as keeping cops accountable, there are SO many ways to do it. Here's a couple. You could require licensure like nurses have. Lose your license for being a dips*** and you don't get to be a cop anymore. Nurses CONSTANTLY think about the consequences of their actions because they don't want to lose their license. Second, you could have a separate criminal justice system for armed police like we do for the military. They hide behind "our job isn't like any other jobs". Okay, well now you've got your own unique set of consequences (which are more strict). Third, you could require all cops to do equipment checks before and after their shift (like the military). You don't get paid until your camera is on and functional. It's not hard...

Know why we don't have these types of measures? Because police unions fight TOOTH AND NAIL to make sure cops AREN'T held accountable, that's why. There isn't some internal fight in police stations between good and bad cops. ALL COPS want to do whatever they want with minimal oversight. It's pretty much exactly what you described in your first post about having a gun and power.

Edited August 11, 2021 by kipwinger

[kipwinger 8,521]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Do they support BLM and antifa when those groups are setting fires, smashing and robbing retail stores, occupying city blocks, and assaulting people? If they do, they're just as nuts as any MAGA who supports Jan 6th.

There's been plenty of instances of antifa/BLM assaulting black folks who disagree with them btw. Plenty of them destroying black owned businesses as well.

If you want to ascribe the actions of folks on jan 6th to every republican, then follow through and ascribe the actions of every professional antifa rioter on to every democrat.

That's 100% the case. For every profession really.

One of the cops on my local force is the DUI/impaired-driving specialist. AKA he has special training to detect impairment of alcohol and other drugs, so they call him in for any type of DUI. Ironically he's also a raging alcoholic who drives his personal vehicle around drunk almost everyday. Has been beating his fiance for the past year (she finally left him recently) and she never called the cops on him because it would wreck his career and they'd probably just cover it up it up anyway. And there's some good guys on my local force.

Not sure how you break up that old boys club.

Nope. Don't agree. There are different degrees of criminality. Supporting rioters is wrong. Supporting rioters who are trying to interrupt the peaceful transfer of governance is worse. Both are bad but there's a difference of degree here. Let's not sugar coat what happened on July 6th. Those people weren't rioting because the cops killed an innocent black guy (again!). They were rioting because they didn't want Congress to certify the results of an election because their guy lost. Those are NOT the same thing.

[kipwinger 8,521]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

You're showing your bias all over this one. You're pointing at the substance behind the riot. That doesn't matter. Burning, looting, attacking civilians, attacking police, storming government building, isn't justifiable in either parties cause. No matter how strongly or fairly you feel ones position is over the other.

Again, I find the reactionary flipping out over the "jan 6th attempted coup" humorous. Antifa took over a neighborhood in Seattle for a month and the city did nothing and just let the idiots grow tired and dissipate. I'd contend the same would have happened with the capital riot had it not been a federal gov building. The Qtards would have taken their selfies, grown tired, and gone home. But in the DC instance you have idiot onlookers going "OMG THEYRE TAKING OVER THE GOVERNMENT" and in the Seattle instance "OMG THE COMMUNISTS ARE TAKING OVER". But anyone with half a brain looks at both and sees a buncha retarded LARPers doing stupid ineffectual s***. I think conflating either is pretty pointless.      

Of course I'm biased. I think MAGA f*ckwads are the worst. But that's not really the point. Crimes directed at the State, involving attempts to interrupt or otherwise subvert the functioning of our government are worse. Like, literally worse. As defined by law. You're acting like Jan. 6th wasn't serious because it was largely unsuccessful and because feckless dips***s participated in it. But that's missing the bigger picture. The ENTIRE reason they were at the Capital was to interrupt the process of government. No it wasn't a successful military coup or something. But it was DEFINITELY an attempt to obstruct the validation of a democratically held election because they didn't like the results of that election. That, by definition, is an attack on the State.

[kipwinger 8,521]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

And antifa/BLM has seized, occupied, and destroyed multiple government buildings. Obstructed and disrupted federal roadways. They declared their own secessionist nation state and operated said state unimpeded for over a month.

I don't find folks very genuine when they go out of their way to express concern over one, but not the other. There's an obvious problem on both sides of the fence. And arguing about which one is or isn't worse is just semantic dick measuring for folks with a bias.

FYI I agree with how the feds handled the Qtards at the capital. I wish cities like Minny and Seattle would show the same use of force and mass arrest on folks who riot and burn as well. 

Your efforts to create a false equivalence are admirable but misguided. As I've repeatedly said, under existing law one of those two things is worse than the other. It's not my opinion, it's the legal code. A person who burns down a government building is guilty of arson. A person who burns down a government building because they want to start a revolution is guilty of arson AND sedition (which is what many of the Jan. 6th conspirators have been charged with). There is no such crime as sedition against the state of Washington or the city of Minneapolis. Only against the United States. Hence why, legally, Jan. 6th was worse. But something tells me that you're probably not willing to be convinced no matter how much I educate you on how the law actually works.

 

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

You're showing your bias all over this one. You're pointing at the substance behind the riot. That doesn't matter. Burning, looting, attacking civilians, attacking police, storming government building, isn't justifiable in either parties cause. No matter how strongly or fairly you feel ones position is over the other.

Again, I find the reactionary flipping out over the "jan 6th attempted coup" humorous. Antifa took over a neighborhood in Seattle for a month and the city did nothing and just let the idiots grow tired and dissipate. I'd contend the same would have happened with the capital riot had it not been a federal gov building. The Qtards would have taken their selfies, grown tired, and gone home. But in the DC instance you have idiot onlookers going "OMG THEYRE TAKING OVER THE GOVERNMENT" and in the Seattle instance "OMG THE COMMUNISTS ARE TAKING OVER". But anyone with half a brain looks at both and sees a buncha retarded LARPers doing stupid ineffectual s***. I think conflating either is pretty pointless.      

Yeah, CNN makes it sound like the French Revolution or something.  How long did those drunken fools even occupy that building before they were thrown out?  Two, three hours?  If that's the worst insurrection in U.S. history, we're lucky.  It sucks people were killed but that's not infrequent in riots.  The police were completely unprepared and the building should have been much better defended.  

[kipwinger 8,521]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Yes there is.

Washington: Chapter 38. Section 696. Subdivision (1b).

"With intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition"

Minnesota: Chapter 609. Section 385. Subdivision (1).

"Levying war" includes an act of war or an insurrection of several persons with intent to prevent, by force and intimidation, the execution of a statute of the state, or to force its repeal. It does not include either a conspiracy to commit an act of war or a single instance of resistance for a private purpose to the execution of a law.

Please continue.

Sweet google search bro. I bet you're awesome with WebMD as well. Sedition is a federal crime. For jurisdictional purposes federal laws are also enshrined in states' legal codes. This is so that revolutionary dipsh*ts arrested by the DC metro police (for example) can legally be held until they're transferred to federal authorities. So, for the second time, a person cannot be guilty of sedition against the state of Washington or city of Minneapolis. Why does this matter? Because it would be pretty hard to make the case that Antifa jackoffs occupying city blocks in Washington were trying to "prevent, by force or intimidation, the execution of the statute of the state". However, it IS NOT hard to make that case as it pertains to MAGA dipsh*ts storming the US Capital building to stop the validation of a federal election. Especially when so many of them livestreamed and/or made facebook posts saying they were taking part in a revolution or other words to that affect.

Fortunately for the country, and not for MAGA dummies, you don't have to be convinced that the Jan. 6th riot was a legally worse infraction. A federal judge and grand jury in the District of Columbia need to be convinced. And take a wild guess what all those people were doing on Jan. 6th? Hint: they weren't watching the attacks on TV.

Edit: You're trying to make the case that Antifa occupations are analogous to the Capital riots, when in reality they're analogous to when those Oregon ranchers occupied federal lands in 2016 and declared themselves sovereign citizens. All of which are illegal, but only one is sedition.

Edited August 11, 2021 by kipwinger

[kipwinger 8,521]

Just now, BarkBurgerman said:

Occupying several blocks of a major American city, declaring it autonomous from the United States, walling it off and then setting up separate governance of said area for over a month isn't rebellion/sedition now? Seems like the textbook definition of it to me. Especially when, in your own words, 'so many of them livestreamed and/or made facebook posts saying they were taking part in a revolution or other words to that affect.'

Not to mention national guard was mobilized, and the attorney general pushed for sedition charges, including on the mayor of Seattle for allowing the insurrection to take place and continue undeterred.

I don't think DC or Seattle are anything other than a buncha ineffectual morons getting together to do dumb s***. With no realistic threat to the nation or their respective cities. But if MAGA does DC is sedition/treason then antifa does Seattle is too. 

Legally it isn't, no matter how many times you say so.

[kipwinger 8,521]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Seizing by force American territory and declaring an autonomous government from that of the United States isn't sedition.

You're either stupid or nuts man.

Yep, it's totally that and not that you have no idea how the law is interpreted. Wanna know the difference between you and me as it pertains to this? I get paid by the United States Congress to interpret the law, and you're an opinionated guy on the internet. Get wrekt dork.

[kipwinger 8,521]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Opinionated guy on the internet attempts appeal to authority on another opinionated guy on the internet.

You can be charged with sedition in this country just for plotting what was done in Seattle. Are your fellow chief justices aware of this?

It's not an appeal to authority. I AM an authority. I'm falling back on my expertise, something you definitely don't have. But again, keep saying it and maybe it will be true. I wish you conservatives would just stick to sports.

[F.Michael 4,590]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I live in DC and work blocks from the Capital....

 

EDITED

Edited August 11, 2021 by F.Michael

[marcaractac 3,962]

46 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yep, it's totally that and not that you have no idea how the law is interpreted. Wanna know the difference between you and me as it pertains to this? I get paid by the United States Congress to interpret the law, and you're an opinionated guy on the internet. Get wrekt dork.

[kipwinger 8,521]

13 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I wish you would lean on argument other than "I say so"

I guess the Michigan Militia can rest easy knowing the libs will be on their side when they start seizing infrastructure and form their own autonomous state.

I explained the legal difference as best as I could. That wasn't good enough for you. Then you said I was "stupid or nuts", at which point it became necessary to remind you (and everyone else) that only one of us actually knows what he's talking about. One of us has a law degree and a career interpreting the law for the federal government, and the other guy is you.

If the Michigan militia seizes infrastructure and form their own autonomous state (like the Oregon ranchers did) they will be charged with quite a few crimes, but sedition won't be one of them because...wait for it...they didn't commit the crime of sedition. Many of the Capital rioters likely did based on the evidence available.

13 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Wanna know how I know it was more than "a few hundred rioters" who stormed the Capital? Because 550 people have been charged with crimes related to the incident. So unless every single person at the Capital that day has been arrested and charged (they haven't) you can bet the number was a good deal greater than "a few hundred".

Edited August 11, 2021 by kipwinger

[kipwinger 8,521]

Just now, BarkBurgerman said:

Why not?

I've already explained why. Go back and reread the posts where I explained the difference earlier. Then read it again. It's not like you're suddenly going to get it if I make a Powerpoint presentation or whatever your preferred communication style is. I doubt that's even the point. You'd rather argue than shut up and learn something.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Just now, BarkBurgerman said:

"A person who burns down a government building is guilty of arson. A person who burns down a government building because they want to start a revolution is guilty of arson AND sedition (which is what many of the Jan. 6th conspirators have been charged with)."

The Seattle autonomous zone outwardly and openly declared they were trying to start a revolution.

And? If I said I murdered John F. Kennedy it wouldn't make it so. Also, you're still angling for an argument. If you genuinely want to know the difference you can DM me and say "Hey Kip, no bullsh*t I'm genuinely interested in the difference between the two" and I'll be happy to break it down for you.