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haroldsnepsts

Jonathan Quick on snipers, including Datsyuk

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Jonathan Quick has a piece in the Player's Tribune on snipers in the NHL. It's a good read an an interesting perspective on goaltending. He picks Datsyuk as one of the snipers to highlight.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jonathan-quick-kings-snipers/

Most guys have a little tell. You look at where the puck is in relation to their feet, or the way they’re bending their knees to get ready to shoot, and you just know what’s going to happen before it happens. But the problem with Datsyuk is that he fools you with his intentions. He will be way out on the wall with his hands, feet, and eyes positioned for a cross-ice pass — and it’s the right decision. It’s what 99 percent of players will do in that situation. So you instantly start cheating your eyes over to where he’s going to pass. Next thing you know — what the hell? — the puck is behind you in the net. He shot it. Who shoots from there? Datsyuk shoots from there.

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Datsyuk is also highlighted in the Players' Tribune article on elite centers as well. I read all of them, about the offensive guys and the defense too. Some of them are informative, others just seem to be all about pumping other guys' tires. It's a toss up. I like Quick's because it's a goalie talkingabout forwards and not a defenseman talking about defensemen (for example). I'd like to see one about goalies, written by a scoring forward. That would be pretty sweet.

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Good read, although i felt like the Toews part was a bunch of bs and its the usual way of overrating him.

Or is it really that he's a great player getting his props, and people are trashing him because they simply don't like him? It's not like one guy is constantly saying "Toews is amazing, top 5 player", it's pretty widespread that he's being praised, which makes me think it's most likely true. Especially when it's current players saying it.

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Or is it really that he's a great player getting his props, and people are trashing him because they simply don't like him? It's not like one guy is constantly saying "Toews is amazing, top 5 player", it's pretty widespread that he's being praised, which makes me think it's most likely true. Especially when it's current players saying it.

Or not.

Toews is one of the best leaders in the league and one of the best complete forwards. However; his offensive ability is no where near the level of guys like Ovie, Stamkos, Crosby, Datsyukian vision, Kane stickhandling, Perry, Getzlav, Thornton's vision (before he started sucking this past year), Malkin, and many others.

Notice how in the article he mentions "Kane and Toews". Yet it mostly talks about Kane specialties which are very unique. Toews is mentioned as "constantly moving, constantly working" etc. Those are some very generic words that could be applied to lots of players in the league. None of the stuff mentioned about him really stands out to me as related to "Elite Snipers 101" as the article is titled.

Toews is a hot commodity and is often times mentioned for the sake of being mentioned. He's emerging into the face of this league. This happens in tons of sports, it's nothing unusual.

I actually respect Toews. I just don't like it when players are overrated for things they shouldn't be.

It was the same thing when Yzerman told the media that "Toews is a better player than I ever was". I mean really? Lol

Everyone knows thats bs. Toews himself basically said it (in a nice way).

Edited by kickazz

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Toews is not overrated. He's like zetterberg. He's got superior

Defense, puck control skills, vision, and competitiveness, and above average everything else. He's just not flashy, which makes everybody go gaga but doesnt make someone one iota more "elite". Kopitar is the same way.

Edited by kipwinger

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Toews is not overrated. He's like zetterberg. He's got superior

Defense, puck control skills, vision, and competitiveness, and above average everything else. He's just not flashy, which makes everybody go gaga but doesnt make someone one iota more "elite". Kopitar is the same way.

I agree about the type of player he is. I just take issue with giving him more credit about certain parts of the game than he deserves. He's not a "sniper" as this article's subject is imo. Nothing that Quick mentioned about him really convinced me how Toews is an elite sniper. All he said was that he is "constantly moving, constantly working".. just sounds like unrelated praise to me. Which is fine but not truly related. I guess it was good to use Toews in the article to segway into the Toews/Kane chemistry. The Kane stuff he mentioned was right on point; he does go between the stick and legs A LOT and get's goals quite a bit with it.

Edited by kickazz

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I can't remember which game but it was in 2013 playoffs against the Ducks. We had a two goal lead for most of the game. A must win and in the third Annaheim got a goal and they had all the momentum and you could just see Dats willed the team to victory and ended up regaining the two goal lead quickly with one of my favorited snipes. I bet we lose that game and the series if we hadn't regained the two goal lead quickly

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I'm not sure which one you're talking about but these were my two fav snipes that series:


If you look at the 1st goal, you see him look at Z and tap his stick twice on the ice for a pass and Z knows exactly what Pav wants to do. Score a goal. Insane backhand.

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I'm not sure which one you're talking about but these were my two fav snipes that series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kBfK5LUVEM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnghGetqR6Q

If you look at the 1st goal, you see him look at Z and tap his stick twice on the ice for a pass and Z knows exactly what Pav wants to do. Score a goal. Insane backhand.

Yeah it was the second video I was thinking of. That was such a huge goal in that series

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Yeah.

Z's a decent sniper, he's got a hell of a slapshot and backhand. But I'm not surprised he wasn't mentioned. He's been on a downward trend for the last 2 years or so and his goal scoring is bad.

The Pav stuff Quick mentioned gave me goosebumps <3. So true.


I was watching some Ovie highlights and it's so easy to forget how frickin good of a sniper he is. Slap, wrist or snap his shot is sooooo powerful it's ridiculous. Def top 5 all time imo.

Edited by kickazz

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Or not.

Toews is one of the best leaders in the league and one of the best complete forwards. However; his offensive ability is no where near the level of guys like Ovie, Stamkos, Crosby, Datsyukian vision, Kane stickhandling, Perry, Getzlav, Thornton's vision (before he started sucking this past year), Malkin, and many others.

Notice how in the article he mentions "Kane and Toews". Yet it mostly talks about Kane specialties which are very unique. Toews is mentioned as "constantly moving, constantly working" etc. Those are some very generic words that could be applied to lots of players in the league. None of the stuff mentioned about him really stands out to me as related to "Elite Snipers 101" as the article is titled.

Toews is a hot commodity and is often times mentioned for the sake of being mentioned. He's emerging into the face of this league. This happens in tons of sports, it's nothing unusual.

I actually respect Toews. I just don't like it when players are overrated for things they shouldn't be.

It was the same thing when Yzerman told the media that "Toews is a better player than I ever was". I mean really? Lol

Everyone knows thats bs. Toews himself basically said it (in a nice way).

I agree it never mentions Toews individually, but is it a way of saying Toews is integral to making Kane an elite sniper? I know in terms of this article it may be overrating him, but he's in no way an overrated player.

Toews is overrated for sure no matter which way you slice it. Zetterberg is better then Toews.

Debatable. Z is still beast, but runs out of gas more and more. As has been said he is on a downward trend, yet I do still think he's a league leader. Also the two statements have nothing to do with one another. Even if it was unanimously agreed that Z was better that Toews, that in no way means Toews is overrated. He's still a damn fine player.

Yeah it was the second video I was thinking of. That was such a huge goal in that series

He also scored an almost identical goal the next season if I remember?

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I agree it never mentions Toews individually, but is it a way of saying Toews is integral to making Kane an elite sniper? I know in terms of this article it may be overrating him, but he's in no way an overrated player.

Debatable. Z is still beast, but runs out of gas more and more. As has been said he is on a downward trend, yet I do still think he's a league leader. A

Yeah we see eye to eye on the first point you made.

So I guess this Z and Toews comparison is brought up.

My opinion is that if we were comparing the two at their primes then Z in prime >>>>> Toews in prime. Like, it's not even close. Both offensively and defensively. Powerplay, shooting ability, penalty kill, takeaways. Except probably faceoffs.

Z in 2013 > Toews in 2013

Z in 2015 < Toews in 2015

Future? Who knows; I think last season for Z could be an outlier just like his 2012 season and he could perform his usual PPG this upcoming season. We will have to see.

I still think if the two were matched up against each other; a 34 year old Z would still dominate a 27 year old Toews. But as far as overall season + playoffs, Toews just has fresh legs to keep him going. Z been on a downward trend for a few years now.

I was sitting behind the bench in one of the last games of the season (i dont remember which one to be honest) and Z did NOT look like he was in good shape even while on the bench. Heavy breathing, extremely short shifts, just slow as hell.

Edited by kickazz

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I Love inside articles like this. Great job by Quick yeah I guess having to guess what a magician like Pasha can do in a split second is tough for every goalie. OV has a cannon of a shot but he isn't a dangler like Pasha or Kane. With Crosby it seems like everyone knows what's coming but they can't do anything because of his speed and ridiculous strong backhand.

The sad thing is father time and that serious back injury really cut Z's prime short he sadly isn't even close to be as good as he once was and well Toews is one of the best 5 maybe 3 players oh the game.

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Yeah.

Z's a decent sniper, he's got a hell of a slapshot and backhand. But I'm not surprised he wasn't mentioned. He's been on a downward trend for the last 2 years or so and his goal scoring is bad.

The Pav stuff Quick mentioned gave me goosebumps <3. So true.

I was watching some Ovie highlights and it's so easy to forget how frickin good of a sniper he is. Slap, wrist or snap his shot is sooooo powerful it's ridiculous. Def top 5 all time imo.

I don't think of Toews or Z as snipers. I can kind of see what Quick is getting at regarding Toews, but he doesn't really belong in the elite sniper conversation. He's an all around great player, but if he were as great at being in the right place at the right time as Quick makes it sound, he'd be a more prolific goal scorer. Toews is very good at everything but not elite in the scoring department. Because he's Canadian and the captain on a multiple Cup winning team he does get overrated a bit with "intangibles." Kopitar is a similar kind of player but doesn't get nearly the same amount of hype.

I thought the Getzlaf example was really interesting as well. It shows so clearly how elite players manage to get a shot off by pulling it in and changing the angle so quickly. It keeps it from getting blocked and catches the goalie off guard. Whereas an average forward would've ripped a shot right into the defenseman's stick or skates.

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I think Z has his sniper moments and I'd consider him a sniper/playmaker in his prime. 7 years later (today) he def isn't a sniper anymore. Too slow and his bad angle shots to trick goalies don't work like they used to.

Do we consider this a snipe? lol. He probably scored on those types of angles atleast 20-30 times in his career.


His accuracy is very good. Just can't do anything with it like he used to.

Pav still can it seems like even at this age.

Edited by kickazz

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I agree it never mentions Toews individually, but is it a way of saying Toews is integral to making Kane an elite sniper? I know in terms of this article it may be overrating him, but he's in no way an overrated player.

Debatable. Z is still beast, but runs out of gas more and more. As has been said he is on a downward trend, yet I do still think he's a league leader. Also the two statements have nothing to do with one another. Even if it was unanimously agreed that Z was better that Toews, that in no way means Toews is overrated. He's still a damn fine player.

He also scored an almost identical goal the next season if I remember?

Or his insane backhand against the Sharks in game 7 where we came back from 3-0. Gave us a chance to win that game. We were down 2-0 I believe

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Or his insane backhand against the Sharks in game 7 where we came back from 3-0. Gave us a chance to win that game. We were down 2-0 I believe

That may be my favorite goal of all time. Top shelf, far-side backhand from the perimeter of the zone. Just filthy.

To add to that, Datsyuk's backhand shot may be the best I've ever seen, and it probably goes unnoticed or is underrated cuz Dats is generally known for his playmaking and stickhandling.

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That may be my favorite goal of all time. Top shelf, far-side backhand from the perimeter of the zone. Just filthy.

To add to that, Datsyuk's backhand shot may be the best I've ever seen, and it probably goes unnoticed or is underrated cuz Dats is generally known for his playmaking and stickhandling.

I honestly think Crosby's backhand may be better, I dislike him, but its pretty damn good. Datsyuk is definitely up there though, and he gets it off so ridiculously quick...

Its beautiful.

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I agree it never mentions Toews individually, but is it a way of saying Toews is integral to making Kane an elite sniper? I know in terms of this article it may be overrating him, but he's in no way an overrated player.

Debatable. Z is still beast, but runs out of gas more and more. As has been said he is on a downward trend, yet I do still think he's a league leader. Also the two statements have nothing to do with one another. Even if it was unanimously agreed that Z was better that Toews, that in no way means Toews is overrated. He's still a damn fine player.

He also scored an almost identical goal the next season if I remember?

They do have everything to do with one another. Multiple sources including TSN and NHL put Toews as a top 3 player in the NHL. If you don't think that's overrating I would like to see your definition of it.

Toews last 3 years in the NHL:

2012-2013

47GP 48P

2013-2014

76GP 68P

2014-2015

81GP 66P

Zetterberg

2012-2013

46GP 48P

2013-2014

45GP 48P

2014-2015

77GP 66P

And no the defense is not widely the difference. I remember Zetterberg shutting down Toews and making Toews cry in the penalty box in playoff series we played against them.

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They do have everything to do with one another. Multiple sources including TSN and NHL put Toews as a top 3 player in the NHL. If you don't think that's overrating I would like to see your definition of it.

Toews last 3 years in the NHL:

2012-2013

47GP 48P

2013-2014

76GP 68P

2014-2015

81GP 66P

Zetterberg

2012-2013

46GP 48P

2013-2014

45GP 48P

2014-2015

77GP 66P

And no the defense is not widely the difference. I remember Zetterberg shutting down Toews and making Toews cry in the penalty box in playoff series we played against them.

One thing that people often forget with Toews is this: when the game matters he turns it up another notch his last 3 playoff performances: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=8792

Points: 14, 17 and 21

Zetterberg: 12, 2 and 3

Sure the Hawks made it all the way but sadly right now Toews is the better player and that's by far nothing against our captain and to be honest it pisses me off seeing how much impact that damn back had on that once unbelievable two way center known as Z :(

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