LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) Holland likes to live in the past, so maybe he thinks Richards will channel his 2004 playoff form. Holland is still thinking that 2008 Franzen will return soon... Honestly, I don't understand the thinking of this guy, and Blashill for that matter. Your top 6 playoff roster should be: Larkin - Z - Abby AA - Datsyuk - Mantha ...and I even second guess Z as the #1 center. How about Larkin - Datsyuk - Abby & AA - Helm - Mantha? Edited April 10, 2016 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 This line from Holland. Just... wow: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/10/wings-opt-andersson-over-mantha-start-playoffs/82866748/ I don't get the thought process behind saying something like that. At all. Seems like Holland just does not have faith in younger players. When the team does bad, they're the only ones who ever have to answer whether it's their fault or not. 1 nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 What has Mantha done to earn a roster spot in the playoffs? Not a thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusberg 1,256 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 What has Mantha done to earn a roster spot in the playoffs? Not a thing. Which is whatever, if Holland feels that way. People may disagree, but it's management's call. Management throwing him under the bus (again - Devellano), however, doesn't feel like it's conducive to Mantha's growth. Don't see how the jab was necessary or helpful. 3 GoWings1905, krsmith17 and Frozen-Man reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 What has Mantha done to earn a roster spot in the playoffs? Not a thing. You could say the same about athanasiou , he's got 9 goals in limited ice time but hasn't taken the league by storm The whole point of this is the wings would have a better shot with the kids getting more ice time and learning than the same old vets who have been lackluster all season , correct me if I'm wrong but the wings haven't scored too many goals this year? And we barely got in , if Boston didn't choke bye bye wings and datsyuk would be officially done as of today Time to get some guts and play the kids , that's how we make noise in the playoffs not over working hank and pav and having Richards as a go to guy ... Things might be different if nyquist and Tatar were performing like they did last year but there not, athanasiou and mantha should get more playing time Helm Richards in top 6 roles won't be enough to get us going 1 GoWings1905 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheDetroitRedWings 286 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 This line from Holland. Just... wow: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/10/wings-opt-andersson-over-mantha-start-playoffs/82866748/ I don't get the thought process behind saying something like that. At all. True, that probably wasn't the best way to phrase what he was trying to say. But on the bright side, he also said: “If we do need him in the series, he needs to be playing.” So at least he's not completely shutting the door on Mantha being called back up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings10 300 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 Well if Holland feels that way, why did he draft him in the 1st rd..Very unprofessional thing to say, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 Yeah, I love Mantha, but I don't think he's grabbed a spot yet. 3 pts. in 10 games. -6. Looked fine, but still needs to round his game out. Let him go be a star in the AHL playoffs I think Jurco would be better suited to the 4th line spot that's likely open. Some are saying that Holland's stuck in the past, but: Lark, AA, Marchenko, then Tat, Ny Shea and maybe Jurco, Pulkinnen. It's already a pretty young roster. Hopefully Mantha will grab a spot for most of next year though. There will be opportunity with Pav gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) We spread out the lines - Tatar and Nyquist are top 6 guys. Last year Johnson did the majority of damage on the 3rd line. Better to have 3 solid lines than be top heavy. I'm fine with that logic if your top-six is actually solid. The Wings top two lines aren't though, by any stretch. What has Mantha done to earn a roster spot in the playoffs? Not a thing. What have Darren Helm or Justin Abdelkader done to earn the same role with way more opportunity? Edited April 10, 2016 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadgerBob 297 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 This line from Holland. Just... wow: http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/10/wings-opt-andersson-over-mantha-start-playoffs/82866748/ I don't get the thought process behind saying something like that. At all. Unreal. Are these old farts drinking on the job? Why on earth would you throw one of your top prospects under the bus like that? Did Mantha get with his daughter? A lot of these guys are gonna wind up playing next year and he certainly gives us a better chance to win now than Andersson. Not everyone on this team can be a two way player that sacrifices offense to play D. The team needs someone that can score goals and they need it bad. 1 frankgrimes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 Unreal. Are these old farts drinking on the job? Why on earth would you throw one of your top prospects under the bus like that? Did Mantha get with his daughter? A lot of these guys are gonna wind up playing next year and he certainly gives us a better chance to win now than Andersson. Not everyone on this team can be a two way player that sacrifices offense to play D. The team needs someone that can score goals and they need it bad. Maybe Mantha is too big, too young and scoring too much. I mean, every other team in this league would clearly take the upcoming superstar Anderson over Mantha just makes sense. Also I think it's ridiculous that this organization is constantly throwing him under the bus why draft him in the first place if you don't like the guy? Such a weird situation 1 GoWings1905 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusberg 1,256 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 True, that probably wasn't the best way to phrase what he was trying to say. But on the bright side, he also said: “If we do need him in the series, he needs to be playing.” So at least he's not completely shutting the door on Mantha being called back up. Yeah, I love Mantha, but I don't think he's grabbed a spot yet. 3 pts. in 10 games. -6. Looked fine, but still needs to round his game out. Let him go be a star in the AHL playoffs I think Jurco would be better suited to the 4th line spot that's likely open. Some are saying that Holland's stuck in the past, but: Lark, AA, Marchenko, then Tat, Ny Shea and maybe Jurco, Pulkinnen. It's already a pretty young roster. Hopefully Mantha will grab a spot for most of next year though. There will be opportunity with Pav gone. Right. And I get where you're both coming from, and why Holland sent him down. I may not agree with some of Holland's roster moves, but if the situation is 6-10 minutes a night/healthy scratch or playing in the AHL, I get why Kenny chose the latter. They wanted him in a top-six role on the team, and they don't feel like he's done enough to earn that role. He's not a 6-10 minute kind of player. What I don't get is referring to one of your top prospects as a "spare part", and asking why anyone would think he'd be "the answer". I wonder if Kenny knows what the answer is... 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 Right. And I get where you're both coming from, and why Holland sent him down. I may not agree with some of Holland's roster moves, but if the situation is 6-10 minutes a night/healthy scratch or playing in the AHL, I get why Kenny chose the latter. They wanted him in a top-six role on the team, and they don't feel like he's done enough to earn that role. He's not a 6-10 minute kind of player. What I don't get is referring to one of your top prospects as a "spare part", and asking why anyone would think he'd be "the answer". I wonder if Kenny knows what the answer is... Well said, agreed. As far as the "spare part" comment, he's not wrong as he was referring to last year when Mantha had 4 points in 16 games, but regardless he shouldn't have said that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 Just seems all the kids besides Larkin are taking a step back and it's frustrating to me personally , this as a golden opportunity for mantha to learn while pavel is here and gain huge playoff experience If everyone thinks this season was tough just you guys wait till pavel is gone and un experienced mantha steps in full time with possibly guys like nosek,ouellet,sproul,pulkkinen and god knows who else It's gonna be Armageddon around here next season For all the crap people have given him, including myself, Tatar ended up doing okay. He's frustrating to watch, and I would never build the offense around him, but his stat line isn't astronomically worse than it was, and since everyone has had a worse year I'd be loathe to single him out. There's clearly something deeper going on, whether it's coaching or certain players, but once that gets fixed I'd like to see what certain players like Tatar can do. I certainly don't expect next season to be as bad as this one, provided we get a replacement for Datsyuk. But back on topic, to Mantha: I don't care about his defensive liability. The fact is we need to score, and can't win a tightly played playoff series with no offense. And Andersson didn't exactly save the team from being scored on three times yesterday, either. We need speed, skating and offense, because we're honestly not going super deep this year. Professionals like Blashill and Holland should be able to recognize this fact and realize now is the time to take a risk. Mantha needs playoff experience. It's not like he's single handedly costing us goals against. Let him play and learn from his mistakes, coach him into being a better defensive player. He's not going to cost us this series, and his offense (not yet figured out by opposing teams) might be something that could turn the scales in our favor. EDIT: I think Nyquist and Larkin have set the bar too high for our prospects, too. It's like, if you don't score 25-30 your first season, you're "not ready." 2 Frozen-Man and nyqvististhefuture reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 Mantha hasn't done much of anything in the time he was in. 2g, 3p in 10 games, spending 81% of his ice-time with Datsyuk. To say he "provides offense" is a stretch. He has potential, but let's not act like he's been anything special. .... Also I think it's ridiculous that this organization is constantly throwing him under the bus why draft him in the first place if you don't like the guy? Such a weird situation No one's throwing him under the bus. This quote isn't even critical, just a statement of fact. Funny; when Mantha failed to live up to the hype last year people said the expectations were too high. If someone were to say now that his 2 goals in 10 games was disappointing people would jump to defend him. But saying we shouldn't expect him to be the answer is throwing him under the bus? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadgerBob 297 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 But back on topic, to Mantha: I don't care about his defensive liability. The fact is we need to score, and can't win a tightly played playoff series with no offense. And Andersson didn't exactly save the team from being scored on three times yesterday, either. In fact, a goal got taken away from the Wings because this all-star was offsides. Like I said before, they can't have 18 two way forwards, you need a balance. Can't win games if all you do is play defense. That's just playing to not lose, it's boring and it doesn't work. 1 Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted April 10, 2016 In fact, a goal got taken away from the Wings because this all-star was offsides. Like I said before, they can't have 18 two way forwards, you need a balance. Can't win games if all you do is play defense. That's just playing to not lose, it's boring and it doesn't work. In fairness, it was a goal that he scored. If Mantha had scored like Larkin did in his first 10 games, he would still be in the lineup. Instead he scored like Larkin did in his last 10 games. Not to say that Andersson (or Jurco or Pulkkinen) would be any better, but I don't think it's a matter of choosing defense over offense like most people seem to think. More defense over potential offense plus bad defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 What has Mantha done to earn a roster spot in the playoffs? Not a thing. What has Andersson done to deserve one? 4 nyqvististhefuture, Hockeymom1960, wings4thecup06 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 What has Andersson done to deserve one?It's definitely his insane potential and superhuman skating ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 Buppy, I strongly disagree that it's still all just potential at this point. I think Mantha looked great in his short stint, despite the lack of production. He has provided offensive pressure and created quite a few scoring chances for himself and his teammates on his own. Although the points haven't been coming the way they probably should, he was a huge contributing factor to the success of the power-play. His size and reach alone are huge assets, and he wins a lot of board battles. It's not as if he was a defensive liability at all either and with Pav on his line, we don't need a defensive dynamo out there. Like others have mentioned, we've made the playoffs, we're not expected to go far (a round or two with a little luck) and now is the time to get these kids in the lineup to get experience and learn from their mistakes. Especially with this potentially being Datsyuk's last season, Mantha should be up, soaking in as much as he can, while he still can. If Andersson is in the lineup over Mantha and Jurco for game one, I'll lose my s***... 4 nyqvististhefuture, GoWings1905, Detroit \# 1 Fan and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 Holland's comments seem to be strategic. It's pretty out of character of him to bash a young kid. My only thought is he's trying to motivate him to be a go to guy in the AHL and a deep playoff run. Mantha needs to learn to become the offensive force of the Griffins, if not the entire AHL before we can label him a future prolific NHL scorer. He got a taste of NHL action now he needs to take another step. No excuse to be second fiddle to guys like Frk and Tangardi. It's not about if he could help this lousy Red Wings team it's about what's best for his NHL development as a high end player. He's in a really delicate time in his development where he can either accept the kind of mediocre player he is or strive to be the best. Btw don't agree with Holland calling him out at all but I'm sure Mantha has sat down with management and discussed his future and understands Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 Buppy, I strongly disagree that it's still all just potential at this point. I think Mantha looked great in his short stint, despite the lack of production. He has provided offensive pressure and created quite a few scoring chances for himself and his teammates on his own. Although the points haven't been coming the way they probably should, he was a huge contributing factor to the success of the power-play. His size and reach alone are huge assets, and he wins a lot of board battles. It's not as if he was a defensive liability at all either and with Pav on his line, we don't need a defensive dynamo out there. Like others have mentioned, we've made the playoffs, we're not expected to go far (a round or two with a little luck) and now is the time to get these kids in the lineup to get experience and learn from their mistakes. Especially with this potentially being Datsyuk's last season, Mantha should be up, soaking in as much as he can, while he still can. If Andersson is in the lineup over Mantha and Jurco for game one, I'll lose my s***... Yeah, people always see the best in players they like. But the simple fact is he hasn't proven anything. He is the definition of potential. He's played 10 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 10 games in which he's looked very good. His advanced stats, as well as the ol' eye ball test has been very good. Sure, he's benefitted playing with Datsyuk, but like I said, he's created quite a few scoring chances on his own as well. He hasn't proven anything? Has he proven that he doesn't belong or he isn't ready? Not at all in my opinion. Is Andersson more deserving of a spot in the lineup? The bottom line for me is that this could be the last opportunity for Mantha to play alongside Datsyuk and I think they should be taking full advantage of that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 Some people say he only scored two goals in his ten games. True, but he also hit a couple posts in that time frame as well. The fact our pp improved alone is reason to play him. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wings4thecup06 504 Report post Posted April 11, 2016 Argh I don't really enjoy bashing management, because I always will feel that they know better than we do, and yea I can live with Mantha being sent down, but what I can't is Andersson coming up AND being inserted into the lineup. It's driving me nuts at the moment, like, is there a plan here? It's more than obvious something here has to change. Richards is just, never even close to a top 6 player, so why is he constantly on the PP, playing is situations where goals are generally scored. He was good, but now loses puck battles, and is slow. It's no wonder this team can't generate any kind of offence because they have no forecheck as by the time the old guys have skated down to retrieve the puck, its already going back the other way. What bothers me is how AA plays only 5-8 minutes a night, and yet has looked at times one of our better forwards, has scored some good goals down the stretch too, yet consistently is labelled as bad defensively. What the f*** do they want, a team of selke trophy nominees? 2 players with big offensive potential - Pulkkinen - ok fine he hasn't been up to snuff, but he and Mantha, don't we think they ought to be given more chance instead of stuck in this system which seems to suck all the life out of our team's offensive ability. It feels like they're just realising we don't have any high end talent anymore, so they're converting to a New Jersey type suffocating D kind of game whereby we don't need any all stars and can squeeze out games. Oh. Except we don't have the D (minus DK) and goaltending. I'd really love to believe in this team, I really would. But I have to wonder who's driving the bus right now because it just doesn't seem to make that much sense. Give your kids a chance to play, let them learn, and if we miss the playoffs? So what. 3 krsmith17, frankgrimes and GoWings1905 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites