Conflict in the Crease

[roboturner 562]

Here's my take on the situation.

It's no secret I haven't been a huge fan of Howard (or rather Howard's play since he's been with the Wings, I've got nothing against him personally). Didn't like him, wanted Mrazek, ect.

Mrazek's first full season with the Wings ('14-'15) he was 22 years old (turned 23 mid-season) Howard's first full season with the Wings ('09-'10) he was already 25 years old! (26 mid-season)

Mrazek will be 25 at the start of next season. He'll have been with the Wings for two entire seasons at the age that Howard was out of options and had to be with the Wings. It's because of this (among other things) that I'm willing to deal with some (seemingly wild) inconsistency in his playing. He's still young, still learning...

I think it will have to be Howard who gets moved at some point before or up to the time when Mrazek needs a new contract (The only way I would consider moving Mrazek was if he was going to be traded for somebody who immediately makes the Wings with Jimmy contenders again. Anything short of that and it isn't really worth it to keep Jimmy, who's already 32).

That being said, they're both still here. Jimmy is playing really well and it appears he actually put in some work and can handle the puck now. Petr looks to be on the upswing here again while Jimmy is out. They are both here right now; there is no reason to not take advantage of it.

[chaps80 1,591]

15 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Howard's hit from a butout+ quality backup goalie doesn't save much, if anything. That would be stupid, especially given Mrazek hasn't been nearly consistent enough yet.

Didn't say a buyout should happen. Just saying it's an option.

[chaps80 1,591]

15 hours ago, roboturner said:

Here's my take on the situation.

It's no secret I haven't been a huge fan of Howard (or rather Howard's play since he's been with the Wings, I've got nothing against him personally). Didn't like him, wanted Mrazek, ect.

Mrazek's first full season with the Wings ('14-'15) he was 22 years old (turned 23 mid-season) Howard's first full season with the Wings ('09-'10) he was already 25 years old! (26 mid-season)

Mrazek will be 25 at the start of next season. He'll have been with the Wings for two entire seasons at the age that Howard was out of options and had to be with the Wings. It's because of this (among other things) that I'm willing to deal with some (seemingly wild) inconsistency in his playing. He's still young, still learning...

I think it will have to be Howard who gets moved at some point before or up to the time when Mrazek needs a new contract (The only way I would consider moving Mrazek was if he was going to be traded for somebody who immediately makes the Wings with Jimmy contenders again. Anything short of that and it isn't really worth it to keep Jimmy, who's already 32).

That being said, they're both still here. Jimmy is playing really well and it appears he actually put in some work and can handle the puck now. Petr looks to be on the upswing here again while Jimmy is out. They are both here right now; there is no reason to not take advantage of it.

I agree. He mentioned that Howard can't be moved because he has a NTC. Just saying that he can be traded since his contract is now an M-NTC. No reason to move Howard unless there's a decent return now that he's playing well again.

15 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Why would u buy out or waive your best goalie?

Not even gonna get into this anymore. Lol

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

50 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I agree. He mentioned that Howard can't be moved because he has a NTC. Just saying that he can be traded since his contract is now an M-NTC. No reason to move Howard unless there's a decent return now that he's playing well again.

Not even gonna get into this anymore. Lol

Thing about Howard is sure you can waive or buy him out, but we all know that won't happen unless he takes a serious nosedive.

He has the modified NTC sure, but here's my list of teams if I am him:

1. Pittsburgh
2. Tampa
3. NYR
4. Boston
5. NJ
6. Nashville
7. Toronto
8. Washington
9. Montreal
10. Florida

Good luck getting that deal done Ken

[LeftWinger 5,153]

That list is just ludicrous. Why would he list only teams where he would be a backup? He wants to be a #1. He would most definitely list other teams, like Calgary, where he would be starter.

Also, at the time of his injury Jimmy was playing better, but he is not our best goalie. When they're both on their game, Mrazek is the better goalie. Hands down.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

59 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

That list is just ludicrous. Why would he list only teams where he would be a backup? He wants to be a #1. He would most definitely list other teams, like Calgary, where he would be starter.

Also, at the time of his injury Jimmy was playing better, but he is not our best goalie. When they're both on their game, Mrazek is the better goalie. Hands down.

Oh lord. The point is listing teams who don't want or need goalies that way you can't be traded because a deal will never get done.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Yes but, the point is getting traded to a team where you will be the starter. Petr will be the #1 here. Howard wants to be #1, he would list teams where he would be the #1. He is not the #1 here.

[chaps80 1,591]

16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Oh lord. The point is listing teams who don't want or need goalies that way you can't be traded because a deal will never get done.

But why would he not want to be traded? He's sharing time with Mrazek right now, but only cause Mrazek had a rough stretch for a couple games and he (Howard) is playing the best he has in years, which was very unexpected. Had that not happened, he wouldn't have played much so far. I'm sure he'd like to go to a team where he will play more and can take over the top spot for good. Plus the Wings are in the middle of a rebuild. Why stick around for that?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Yes but, the point is getting traded to a team where you will be the starter. Petr will be the #1 here. Howard wants to be #1, he would list teams where he would be the #1. He is not the #1 here.

I wouldn't say either is the clear number 1 right now. They're both fighting for that spot still.

You don't know that that is Howard's priority. He originally negotiated an NTC into his contract because he DID NOT want to be traded. Can that situation change? Sure. But you don't know that it has. He has played his entire professional career in Michigan. He has a wife and young kids. There's good reasons why he worked that NTC into his contract.

6 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

But why would he not want to be traded? He's sharing time with Mrazek right now, but only cause Mrazek had a rough stretch for a couple games and he (Howard) is playing the best he has in years, which was very unexpected. Had that not happened, he wouldn't have played much so far. I'm sure he'd like to go to a team where he will play more and can take over the top spot for good. Plus the Wings are in the middle of a rebuild. Why stick around for that?

I think fans lose sight of players being real people with families and lives outside of hockey. I've moved around the states quit a bit because of work. It's fun when you're young, but once you get older and have kids that's often far from the case.

Simply put, you leave dollars on the table to get an NTC so you know you won't have to go through a trade to a new team and new city. Howard is playing well this season, and there's nothing to suggest he wants out of Detroit. The power is in his hands.

[chaps80 1,591]

NTCs get worked into contracts as a way of the player having control of where he plays, not necessarily because he wants to stay where he signed forever. A player can waive his NTC if a trade to a certain team would be beneficial to him, or he wants a change of scenery, etc. If he doesn't want to go, he can refuse it and stay put. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

NTCs get worked into contracts as a way of the player having control of where he plays, not necessarily because he wants to stay where he signed forever. A player can waive his NTC if a trade to a certain team would be beneficial to him, or he wants a change of scenery, etc. If he doesn't want to go, he can refuse it and stay put. 

You're not wrong. But there's absolutely zero to suggest Howard wants a change of scenery. He signed a long deal with an NTC here. That's indicative of a player not interested in moving. Can that situation change? Sure.

The point I'm trying to make is that I would certainly not count on or expect Howard to waive that NTC, or list realistic trade partners. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by ChristopherReevesLegs
Assume the worst. Assume this contract is unmovable.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Who's to say he won't end up beating Mrazek out anyway? It's not like the kid has a been lights out consistently.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

45 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Who's to say he won't end up beating Mrazek out anyway? It's not like the kid has a been lights out consistently.

Seriously. its very possible Jimmy wins the starting spot back. Mraz is the new hot young thing so everyone sees him as future Hasek but he certainly hasnt proved that yet

[kickazz 5,459]

24 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Seriously. its very possible Jimmy wins the starting spot back. Mraz is the new hot young thing so everyone sees him as future Hasek but he certainly hasnt proved that yet

$2000 says he'll never be the future Hasek. At best future Jonathan Quick or Carey Price--ish. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, kickazz said:

$2000 says he'll never be the future Hasek. At best future Jonathan Quick or Carey Price--ish. 

Carey price is trash 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Price is a witch, we should burn him! He turned me into a newt!

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Safe for some injuries I think price is going to do what King Henrik did

[LeftWinger 5,153]

11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Carey price is trash 

That says it all right there.

 

Let's see...

Last three games for Mrazek:  .954 SV%  1.66 GAA

It seems he has picked it up...

 

BTW, Price: 17 games .946 SV% 1.71 GAA...utter trash. 9, 9, 9...  

Edited December 3, 2016 by LeftWinger

[Dabura 12,232]

There is no conflict. There is only Coreau.

[marcaractac 3,963]

6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

There is no conflict. There is only Coreau.

 

 

 

and he is starting tonight. 

 

Also, holy hell the state of the name of the Pens arena. Little Caesar's Arena is a blessing in comparison. 

PPG Paints Arena. Rolls right off the tongue sure. 

Edited December 3, 2016 by marcaractac

[Dabura 12,232]

Just now, marcaractac said:

and he is starting tonight. 

Hallelujah!

2 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

PPG Paints Arena. Rolls right off the tongue sure. 

I've taken to calling it "Pee-Pee Pants Uria." More thematically appropriate, IMHO.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

That says it all right there.

 

Let's see...

Last three games for Mrazek:  .954 SV%  1.66 GAA

It seems he has picked it up...

 

BTW, Price: 17 games .946 SV% 1.71 GAA...utter trash. 9, 9, 9...  

Carey Price is a mess 

[chaps80 1,591]

16 hours ago, kickazz said:

$2000 says he'll never be the future Hasek. At best future Jonathan Quick or Carey Price--ish. 

No one will ever play like Hasek did. He had his own way, which was pretty simple in theory. Just stop the puck, whatever it takes. There was no "style" involved. Every goalie has fundamentals that they learn and build off of and for the most part stick to. Hasek didn't. From dropping his stick to grab the puck with his blocker hand to racing out to mow down a player on a breakaway (Anyone remember his move on Gaborik? LOL), he just invented as he went.

I guess cause they're both Czech natives, comparisons get made. But the way they each play isn't even close close similar. Closest to Hasek's way would have been Martin Prusek, who was his backup in Ottawa for a time.

[kliq 3,763]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

No one will ever play like Hasek did. He had his own way, which was pretty simple in theory. Just stop the puck, whatever it takes. There was no "style" involved. Every goalie has fundamentals that they learn and build off of and for the most part stick to. Hasek didn't. From dropping his stick to grab the puck with his blocker hand to racing out to mow down a player on a breakaway (Anyone remember his move on Gaborik? LOL), he just invented as he went.

I guess cause they're both Czech natives, comparisons get made. But the way they each play isn't even close close similar. Closest to Hasek's way would have been Martin Prusek, who was his backup in Ottawa for a time.

My very first memory of Hasek was when he was a backup in Chicago. Someone on the Wings had a breakaway and was coming up the right side and Hasek just went right at him and essentially took out his legs like a baserunner sliding into second base.

As a kid I had never seen anything like that before. He was definitely a once in a lifetime talent, and in my opinion at his peak the best goaltender that ever played. Other goaltenders may have had better overall careers when it comes to career totals, but nobody was as dominating in their prime as him.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Carey Price is a mess 

Some things never change...except names.