Rumors Thread

[Dabura 12,207]

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-detroit-red-wings-mike-green-mrazek-nyquist-new-york-islanders/2017/12/23/

Ansar Khan of MLive: (mailbag) If the Red Wings fall over ten points out of the playoff race, it would be hard for them to make up, and they’ll be open for business. They’d start listening to trade offers, but likely won’t start selling right away.

Defenseman Mike Green will be their biggest trade chip at the deadline. thinks that they could get a low first round pick (from a playoff team) for Green. If they can’t get first, maybe two second-round picks. They got a second and third round picks for Brendan Smith last year.

It’s doubtful that they’d trade Tomas Tatar after signing him to a four-year extension. Could see them trying to trade Gustav Nyquist, but he has a no-trade clause. Nyquist will be a free agent after next season.

The Red Wings will look to trade goaltender Petr Mrazek if they are out of the playoff race. They likely wouldn’t get more than a third- or fourth-round pick. The Wings won’t qualify Mrazek at $4 million, so they will look to get a pick for him if they can. Moving Mrazek would be easier than Jimmy Howard who has a year left on his deal at $5.3 million.

[Buppy 1,720]

9 hours ago, Richdg said:

The Oilers used to say the same things. It will not go on for long.... we were great.... we can rebuild strictly through the draft..... It didn't work. It still isn't working. Every year they have a top 5 pick, take players rated in the top 5 by everyone, and they still suck. Yes they are the best example of sucking there is, no doubt. Chicago, LA, Boston etc.... All have rebuilt much quicker. Those teams also have added big time UFA's and made trades to add in their rebuilds. None of those teams did it 100% through the draft. You need great young talents and great vets in the prime of their careers. That is the part we are missing. Look at our last 5 1st round picks. All are talented and look promising. I guarentee that not all of them will make it. Injuries, failure to develop, over rated talent does happen to every team. There are no sure things in the draft. To say nothing of the later rounds. We have yet to have a guy from the second round or later taken in the 2013 drafts till now to turn into anything. Maybe someone does there is some talent. But again that is 5 years worth of drafts. We have 2 players from the last 5 drafts that have produced. Mantha and Larkin, that is it. Why do we expect the next 5 drafts to be better?

There are still only 3 ways to get talent: draft, trade, and sign UFA's. Teams that limit themselves to only 1 method are doomed. You have to use all tools available to win.

None of that has anything to do with what I said. 5 years of mediocrity doesn't even put us close to league laughingstock status. It's just a normal down cycle that every team goes through. For the record, Kings missed the playoffs 11 times in 17 years prior to their Cup, not to mention had been mostly irrelevant since joining the league in 67. Boston had been mediocre or worse for 15 years. So was Chicago. At least try to be a little objective.

Furthermore, no one is suggesting to rebuild strictly through the draft. (And by the way, Edmonton has plenty of UFAs and trade acquisitions as well.) We go after UFAs every year, and will continue to do so. Some people may not want Carlson specifically, and most probably don't want Cole or de Haan (and shouldn't, because they aren't notably better than what we have), but that doesn't mean anyone is against UFAs. 

Trades are another matter. We can't get the kind of players we need without creating other holes just as large. Best we could do is trade for prospects then hope they develop into something, but that strategy isn't anything all that different from drafting. Shuffling our middling players for different middling players isn't likely to do much either, though once we're sure of what core players we have that can be done to tweak things. But we're not at "tweak" stage yet. Anyone we move should be for picks or prospects.

But the bottom line is 5 years of mediocrity and adding the pieces we have is doing very well, no matter what some spoiled fans think. Even just a couple top picks in the next couple years could conceivably get us heading back toward the top. It's pretty remarkable actually, considering we haven't really even had any particular luck in the draft. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 12/23/2017 at 4:07 PM, kliq said:

Nobody wants De Haan and Cole other then you, lets move on.

A few years ago he was obsessed with bringing in Mark Fayne. I honestly dont think he watches these guys play at all. Theres absolutely zero reason to be over the moon about any of these players.

[Euro_Twins 4,477]

Rumour has it ken Holland has created a cloning device and has made several clones of dehaan and Cole and they will now be our entire team. 

[LeftWinger 4,963]

Nah, he bought a Doofenschmirtz clonenenator and accidently cloned Sammuelsson and Bertuzzi.

Edited December 27, 2017 by LeftWinger

[Euro_Twins 4,477]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Nah, he bought a Doofenschmirtz clonenenator and accidently cloned Sammuelsson and Bertuzzi.

"Accidentally"

[Dabura 12,207]

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-ny-islanders-john-tavares-toronto-maple-leafs-mike-green-red-wings/2017/12/26/

Maple Leafs Hot Stove: Pierre McGuire on TSN 1050 was asked if he thinks Red Wings defenseman Mike Green would be a good fit for the Maple Leafs.

“I would. He is a puck transporter. He shoots the puck as well now as when he was a youngster. He has always been an offensive catalyst going back to when he played for Saskatoon in the WHL.

I think the biggest thing is Mike (Babcock) would know how to manage him and that’s a really important part of it when you get a player like that. He’s obviously a high-octane player.

I would be encouraged but you’ve got to think the price point for that player would be pretty high as far as what Detroit would potentially want. And I think Detroit sees themselves as in the mix as a potential playoff team, so I don’t think they’re in a rush to do something that might break up what is an important part of their team.”

It's Pierre and TSN, so, y'know, grain of salt. But there's nothing else out there on the Red Wings Trade Rumors front, so I'll take what I can get.

[Richdg 267]

I realize it is impossible for any fan to know every player on every team. So lets take a look at some numbers.

Over the last 3.5 seasons Trouba-everyones favorite white whale has produced the following:

243 games, 23 goals, 65 assists, +18 +/-, 415 hits, 489 blocks, 107 takeaways

Over the same period of time De Haan has produced:

252 games, 9 goals, 56 assists, +32 +/-, 452 hits, 583 blocks, 76 takeaways

Just for reference the overall rank for De Haan in the NHL is #33 in hits #5 in blocks #6 in takeaways. It might be safe to say that De Haan is a legit top 20 defensive Dman. Subjective yes. But the numbers do back that up.

Now what about Carlson? Over the same 3.5 seasons:

247 games 32 goals-24th, 126 assists-13th, +30, 203 hits-not his game, 507 blocks-17th, 139 takeaways-11th. Those are legit top 20 Dman numbers for the league.

I am not expecting for us to land either. That would be too aggressive of moves for Holland. Both would make us much better.

For reference over the last 3.5 seasons our top Dman in each stat:

Dekeyser 258 games

Ericsson 368 hits

Dekeyser 403 blocks

Dekeyser 50 takeaways

Green 25 goals

Kronwall 77 assists

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Richdg

[kliq 3,755]

36 minutes ago, Dabura said:

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-ny-islanders-john-tavares-toronto-maple-leafs-mike-green-red-wings/2017/12/26/

Maple Leafs Hot Stove: Pierre McGuire on TSN 1050 was asked if he thinks Red Wings defenseman Mike Green would be a good fit for the Maple Leafs.

“I would. He is a puck transporter. He shoots the puck as well now as when he was a youngster. He has always been an offensive catalyst going back to when he played for Saskatoon in the WHL.

I think the biggest thing is Mike (Babcock) would know how to manage him and that’s a really important part of it when you get a player like that. He’s obviously a high-octane player.

I would be encouraged but you’ve got to think the price point for that player would be pretty high as far as what Detroit would potentially want. And I think Detroit sees themselves as in the mix as a potential playoff team, so I don’t think they’re in a rush to do something that might break up what is an important part of their team.”

It's Pierre and TSN, so, y'know, grain of salt. But there's nothing else out there on the Red Wings Trade Rumors front, so I'll take what I can get.

I read the other day on TSN that Kasperi Kapanen and a 3rd was what they thought the Wings could get from T.O. Anyone here know much about Kasperi Kapanen? Star potential? Or is there even top 6 potential?

18 minutes ago, Richdg said:

I realize it is impossible for any fan to know every player on every team. So lets take a look at some numbers.

Over the last 3.5 seasons Trouba-everyones favorite white whale has produced the following:

243 games, 23 goals, 65 assists, +18 +/-, 415 hits, 489 blocks, 107 takeaways

Over the same period of time De Haan has produced:

252 games, 9 goals, 56 assists, +32 +/-, 452 hits, 583 blocks, 76 takeaways

Just for reference the overall rank for De Haan in the NHL is #33 in hits #5 in blocks #6 in takeaways. It might be safe to say that De Haan is a legit top 20 defensive Dman. Subjective yes. But the numbers do back that up.

Now what about Carlson? Over the same 3.5 seasons:

247 games 32 goals-24th, 126 assists-13th, +30, 203 hits-not his game, 507 blocks-17th, 139 takeaways-11th. Those are legit top 20 Dman numbers for the league.

I am not expecting for us to land either. That would be too aggressive of moves for Holland. Both would make us much better.

For reference over the last 3.5 seasons our top Dman in each stat:

Dekeyser 258 games

Ericsson 368 hits

Dekeyser 403 blocks

Dekeyser 50 takeaways

Green 25 goals

Kronwall 77 assists

 

You lost me at the bold. Nobody other then you would call him a #1 D-man (which is what a top 20 D-man in the league is).

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, kliq said:

I read the other day on TSN that Kasperi Kapanen and a 3rd was what they thought the Wings could get from T.O. Anyone here know much about Kasperi Kapanen? Star potential? Or is there even top 6 potential?

Huh, interesting. Kapanen's high on my list of desirable targets in a Green trade. He should become a solid top-six scoring winger, at minimum.

[kliq 3,755]

18 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Huh, interesting. Kapanen's high on my list of desirable targets in a Green trade. He should become a solid top-six scoring winger, at minimum.

If we trade Nyquist it would be nice to have a guy to just jump in and replace him.

This is where I heard the discussion https://www.tsn.ca/video/should-the-leafs-try-to-package-kapanen-for-mike-green~1290581

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by kliq

[Dabura 12,207]

14 minutes ago, kliq said:

If we trade Nyquist it would be nice to have a guy to just jump in and replace him.

Not sure he could fully replace Nyquist's production right away, but turning a Gustav Nyquist into a Kasperi Kapanen is definitely the kind of move that an organization in the Wings' position should be looking to make, IMO. Nyquist's best days are likely behind him. Kapanen is 21, very talented, and very promising.

EDIT: Thanks for the link!

Edited December 27, 2017 by Dabura

[LeftWinger 4,963]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-ny-islanders-john-tavares-toronto-maple-leafs-mike-green-red-wings/2017/12/26/

Maple Leafs Hot Stove: Pierre McGuire on TSN 1050 was asked if he thinks Red Wings defenseman Mike Green would be a good fit for the Maple Leafs.

“I would. He is a puck transporter. He shoots the puck as well now as when he was a youngster. He has always been an offensive catalyst going back to when he played for Saskatoon in the WHL.

I think the biggest thing is Mike (Babcock) would know how to manage him and that’s a really important part of it when you get a player like that. He’s obviously a high-octane player.

I would be encouraged but you’ve got to think the price point for that player would be pretty high as far as what Detroit would potentially want. And I think Detroit sees themselves as in the mix as a potential playoff team, so I don’t think they’re in a rush to do something that might break up what is an important part of their team.”

It's Pierre and TSN, so, y'know, grain of salt. But there's nothing else out there on the Red Wings Trade Rumors front, so I'll take what I can get.

You mean we could actually "rape" a divisional team this season at the deadline? 1st and a 2nd please, thanks Toronto.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, Richdg said:

I realize it is impossible for any fan to know every player on every team. So lets take a look at some numbers.

Over the last 3.5 seasons Trouba-everyones favorite white whale has produced the following:

243 games, 23 goals, 65 assists, +18 +/-, 415 hits, 489 blocks, 107 takeaways

Over the same period of time De Haan has produced:

252 games, 9 goals, 56 assists, +32 +/-, 452 hits, 583 blocks, 76 takeaways

Just for reference the overall rank for De Haan in the NHL is #33 in hits #5 in blocks #6 in takeaways. It might be safe to say that De Haan is a legit top 20 defensive Dman. Subjective yes. But the numbers do back that up.

Now what about Carlson? Over the same 3.5 seasons:

247 games 32 goals-24th, 126 assists-13th, +30, 203 hits-not his game, 507 blocks-17th, 139 takeaways-11th. Those are legit top 20 Dman numbers for the league.

I am not expecting for us to land either. That would be too aggressive of moves for Holland. Both would make us much better.

For reference over the last 3.5 seasons our top Dman in each stat:

Dekeyser 258 games

Ericsson 368 hits

Dekeyser 403 blocks

Dekeyser 50 takeaways

Green 25 goals

Kronwall 77 assists

 

Even most hardcore fans don't know who you're talking about when you bring up De Hann. The only reason we do is because you won't shut up about him. 

And yet you think he's top 20? Just drop it. No one's buying, or interested in talking about him... and no one trusts your numbers without doing loads of fact checking anyway.

Let's talk about something else.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, kliq said:

I read the other day on TSN that Kasperi Kapanen and a 3rd was what they thought the Wings could get from T.O. Anyone here know much about Kasperi Kapanen? Star potential? Or is there even top 6 potential?

I'd personally prefer a late first round pick, but Kapanen would be a decent return IF we're offloading a winger. I just don't see Holland trading Nyquist or any other roster players under contract beyond this season. I hope I'm wrong. I hope Holland is very active this trade deadline and next year's draft...

[LeftWinger 4,963]

 

Anything less is pointless. Get picks/prospects all while cutting $20M-$25M in cap PLUS what we already had for next year.

Edited March 14, 2018 by LeftWinger

[Dabura 12,207]

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/12/28/16825704/nhl-trade-rumors-anthony-duclair-coyotes-2017

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-letangs-situation-complex-season-deal/

5. I always wonder about Detroit whenever a top defender is available.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

If they'd take Nyquist or Tatar in a deal for Duclair, I'm in.

I would take a pass of Letang, it'll cost a fortune to acquire him.  Well, at least more than I would like to give up.

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

If they'd take Nyquist or Tatar in a deal for Duclair, I'm in.

I would take a pass of Letang, it'll cost a fortune to acquire him.  Well, at least more than I would like to give up.

We have enough projects on this team without adding another. Letang injury history and price tag really doesn't make sense for our team.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

To rid us of much needed cap, I'd get rid of Nyquist or Tatar for a project. But you're right, it's not as if we need him.

[Wingnut1989 165]

Pens shopping letang

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 12/23/2017 at 7:02 AM, krsmith17 said:

1. I completely agree with this.

2. It's unclear if you're talking about Carlson or De Haan / Cole here. If it's the former, he absolutely is a top pair defenseman, it's just debatable whether he's a true number one, or a number two. If it's the latter, I completely agree. We do not need to overpay for more of these type players.

3. I'd be shocked if Cole signs for much more than $4M, but your point stands. At this point, I'd rather keep Ericsson, rather than move him and retain salary, especially with his much improved play. However, if we could move him without retaining any salary and actually gain an asset (this isn't as crazy as some "Errorsson bashers" might think), I'd do it in a heartbeat.

4. I somewhat agree with this. More so to the point that kliq made, about showing weakness, or like you said, other GM's smelling blood in the water. But I don't think the return would effect Green's decision to re-sign or not. There's no way a team doesn't offer significantly better than just a 3rd though.

5. I think Green would be open to re-signing here, but I don't think it's a sure thing. We weren't quite as bad as we are now when he originally signed here, and he's getting up there in age now (for an athlete). He'll probably only sign another one or two contracts, and he may want to chase a Cup at this point.

6. I agree that we shouldn't overpay for any UFA's, but I don't think $7Mx7 is overpayment for a legit top pair defenseman. However, I do agree with kliq and Dabura's point about trying to offload a bad contract or two first. I think Kronwall may actually finish out his contract at this point (maybe), but if he went the way of LTIR(etire), and we were able to offload Nielsen's contract, that would make that $7M very doable, even if he is at worst a number two defenseman.

First bold: Yes, I was referring to Cole, de Haan, etc. not Carlson. I am not opposed to signing Carlson btw, I agree that he is a top pairing D (on any team), but he's more of a 2nd tier guy. My concern is that he ends up getting top tier pay. Wings can't afford to get into that sort of bidding war. 

2nd bold:  In terms of Cole's salary, he signed a 3 year deal for 6.3 mil. DeHaan's deal was for one year. Somehow in my brain that turned into Cole making 6.3 mil on a one year deal  . Which would be a lot for a 2nd pair guy for sure, but that's where I got that number from. Although considering recent deals for defensemen last year, I think he gets more than 4 mil. That would be less than what Brendan Smith and Ericsson are getting. Cole's better than both, IMO. Based on that, I think he gets 4.75 or more.

3rd bold; I agree. I also think the chances of him coming back are better than people think.

https://www.si.com/nhl/2015/11/15/mike-green-detroit-red-wings-washington-capitals

4th bold: 7x7 is not a bad deal at all, but I would be more comfortable with 5 years, and I don't think he would sign for that. Besides, it only takes one idiot GM to overpay beyond that. Holland should walk away at that point.

3 hours ago, Wingnut1989 said:

Pens shopping letang

Maybe we could pair Leturnover with Errorson. 

[Dabura 12,207]

https://www.nhl.com/standings

The playoff race is shaping up to be really interesting. Could be very profitable for sellers.

The rise of Vegas, Winnipeg, New Jersey means we could be looking at several should-be-contenders being on the outside looking in from here on out. Currently not occupying a playoff spot: Calgary, Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh. All four of those organizations are in "We want the Cup" mode and all four of the respective GMs are willing to make big trades.

Additionally, one or two or all three of the aforementioned Knights, Jets, Devils could decide to go all in on a Cup push.

[kliq 3,755]

26 minutes ago, Dabura said:

https://www.nhl.com/standings

The playoff race is shaping up to be really interesting. Could be very profitable for sellers.

The rise of Vegas, Winnipeg, New Jersey means we could be looking at several should-be-contenders being on the outside looking in from here on out. Currently not occupying a playoff spot: Calgary, Anaheim, Chicago, Pittsburgh. All four of those organizations are in "We want the Cup" mode and all four of the respective GMs are willing to make big trades.

Additionally, one or two or all three of the aforementioned Knights, Jets, Devils could decide to go all in on a Cup push.

Nice to see some new blood. Hopefully LA, Chicago, and Pittsburgh all get bounced first round this year.

I would love to see the Jets make a run.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Vegas making the Finals in year one would be interesting