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ChristopherReevesLegs

Two Tendies Enter. One Tendy Lives.

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Red Wings Goalie Going Forward  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. Howie or Mraz?

    • Howard
      14
    • Mrazek
      13


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mad-max-beyond-thunderdome-tina-turner.j

What an embarrassment this team is at the moment.

When I started on this board the Red Wings had the repuation of not only being annoyingly good year after year, but also being the best organization in sports. No drama, efficient drafting, highly respected players, the list goes and goes, i dont need to remind everyone of that. We could look down our noses at everyone and life was good on top, even through a down year.

The hope is gone. After the Montreal game Zberg, the last bastion of Red Wings elitism and power, said this current team has embarrassed everyone who's ever worn the winged wheel. Its true. Watching this team is like when you're running late for work and dont eat breakfast. The coffee tears youre empty stomach up all morning, but you remember you packed a delicious sandwhich for lunch. Fresh thin sliced rare roast beef. The fancy cheese you cant afford. The brioche roll. Hot damn you love to think about. Then lunch hour roles around and you find out your wife is having an affair. The snobby pride is gone, were getting screwed left n right. 

So now that that's said, naturally i wanna funnel all my frustations onto our goaltenders. Mrazek is finished here. He's sitting on a 3.62 GAA and .891 sv%. No goalie, even with bad D, survives these numbers. Its a repeat from last year and hes in a contract year. Im saying it now: Mrazek will be playing in Czech Republic next year. No team wanted him during the expansion. No team will want him next year. How long do we lie to ourselves like with Brendan Smith and say hes gonna turn it around? Hes less than Smith was at 25 already. Its over. How can anyone prefer him to Howard?

Flame on.

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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Trade them both. Seriously. It' time to tank it. If we don' the #1 or #2 trade it for a position of need plus an extra 2nd.

But if I had to choose, I'd go Mrazek. For no other reason but to ditch Jimmys cap.

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Obviously Howard because Mrazek is absolute trash. Can’t believe I thought he would be good. Guess I’ll eat crow for a few months. 

They should have kept Jim Bedard - Mrazek actually did well with him. Can’t believe we let a good goalie coach go for nothing. Thanks Blashill...

 

22 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Trade them both. Seriously. It' time to tank it. If we don' the #1 or #2 trade it for a position of need plus an extra 2nd.

But if I had to choose, I'd go Mrazek. For no other reason but to ditch Jimmys cap.

Use your head Righty. If we don’t resign MRazek we get $4 million off and one year after that we relieve another $5 million when Jimmy is gone. If we rid Jimmy now and resign Mrazek we only lose the $5 million from Jimmy and probably have to resign Mrazek to some overpaid deal.

I say we let go of Mrazek and ride out Jimmy for another year and get cheaper backup and hope one of our farm goalies makes a leap into the NHL roster. If not re-sign Jimmy for a 2 year deal for cheap (3-4 million) 

Edited by kickazz

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54 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Trade them both. Seriously. It' time to tank it. If we don' the #1 or #2 trade it for a position of need plus an extra 2nd.

But if I had to choose, I'd go Mrazek. For no other reason but to ditch Jimmys cap.

Jimmy only has next year left on his contract. I don't see the need to move Jimmy at all, because his cap hit will go down after next year as a 35+ player. We will need him in order to shelter our young goalies as well. If Jimmy is traded, it wouldn't be till next years deadline

54 minutes ago, xault said:

Where the none?

I gotta go Howard I guess, I don't know.

None isn't an option because it would be silly. Going from 2 goalies to no goalies would be foolish, and we all know this organization wouldn't make that drastic of a move anyway.

I guess the real question should be, do we even bother qualifying Mrazek as an RFA? With the amount of money we need to re-sign other players, it will just be nice to have his $4 mil off the books. The Conklin/Gustavsson option is probably better at this point. We can pick up a career backup like Peter Budaj or something for next to nothing. Use him as a backup for Jimjam until a new kid can make the roster.

Re-signing Mrazek to a cheap deal is an option, but it just doesn't seem feasible. The relationship has soured. As a young man who's career is trending backwards, he'll want to make a lateral move to a new team to right the ship and save his career. And from the teams perspective, he's not providing even backup quality numbers, so why continue with that headache at even $1 million?

I see both parties shaking hands and walking away after this year.

Coreau and McCollum are not playing super great in GR so far this season. Petruzzelli was great in the USHL, but he's struggling in college now. Larsson is having a fantastic year, but like with Petruzzelli, he's in the USHL, so who can say. Van Pottelberghe is having a down year so far in Switzerland. Machovsky is having a good year in Toledo, but it's Toledo...

Do we even own the rights to Chase Perry or Jake Paterson anymore? Red Wings don't seem interested in either.

Personally, I'd hold onto Howard and let Mrazek walk after this season. Sign no new goaltenders in the offseason. Call up Coreau and Machovsky at the same time and let them duke it out for the backup spot beneath Jimmy. Re-sign Jimmy after next year for an agreeable 3-4 million on a shorter contract, unless there's a big fish we can reel in, then we can let Howard go. But realistically I see the organization exercising the Conklin/Monster option, and leaving the kids down in GR next year, none have really pulled away as clear NHL options.

Mrazek flopping is a real situation. Howard's gonna age out completely in a few years, and when that happens there is no definite young gun to pull up... at least not yet. 

 

39 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

right now, neither.

And roll 6 skaters? Daring plan sir...

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One thing you don't do is tank. EVER. That's the stuff losers like up north Leaf fans are made of. (The NHL helped them with that #1 pick anyways... that is apparent.) There is no guarantees in sucking on purpose. And there's that little thing called integrity. You do not embarrass our jersey.

Petr won't get it done. It seems apparent. Howie has been pretty good, but recently? Not so much.

None of this matters. They could be the 2nd coming of Hasek and it still would not matter because the team has QUIT on their coach. Period.

Zetterberg about to cry on TV is the final straw for me. I need a break from this team. I am so disgusted.

Edited by motorcitykid

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If the bad run continues, we've got to give Mrazek a chance to run with the #1 for a few games. Helps us see if he can turn it around...so we resign him/trade him/let him work. And if the worst happens Howard's groin gets a rest for a while.

Mrazek has more talent and has put in performances Jimmy just can't, but his head is scrambled and decision making for the last 12 months has been BAD far more than should be the case.

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1 hour ago, lomekian said:

If the bad run continues, we've got to give Mrazek a chance to run with the #1 for a few games. Helps us see if he can turn it around...so we resign him/trade him/let him work. And if the worst happens Howard's groin gets a rest for a while.

Mrazek has more talent and has put in performances Jimmy just can't, but his head is scrambled and decision making for the last 12 months has been BAD far more than should be the case.

Mrazek is definitely more athletic then Jimmy, but being more athletic in a position that is so mental doesnt mean better/more talented. 

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5 hours ago, kickazz said:

Obviously Howard because Mrazek is absolute trash. Can’t believe I thought he would be good. Guess I’ll eat crow for a few months. 

They should have kept Jim Bedard - Mrazek actually did well with him. Can’t believe we let a good goalie coach go for nothing. Thanks Blashill...

 

Use your head Righty. If we don’t resign MRazek we get $4 million off and one year after that we relieve another $5 million when Jimmy is gone. If we rid Jimmy now and resign Mrazek we only lose the $5 million from Jimmy and probably have to resign Mrazek to some overpaid deal.

I say we let go of Mrazek and ride out Jimmy for another year and get cheaper backup and hope one of our farm goalies makes a leap into the NHL roster. If not re-sign Jimmy for a 2 year deal for cheap (3-4 million) 

Exactly. Let it ride. Don't sign Mrazek. Develop or sign a goalie and move on from Howard after next year.. This organization is in need of a total culture change. 

3 hours ago, lomekian said:

If the bad run continues, we've got to give Mrazek a chance to run with the #1 for a few games. Helps us see if he can turn it around...so we resign him/trade him/let him work. And if the worst happens Howard's groin gets a rest for a while.

Mrazek has more talent and has put in performances Jimmy just can't, but his head is scrambled and decision making for the last 12 months has been BAD far more than should be the case.

Mrazek's fundamentals are so bad he can have all the talent in the world and it won't matter. He over plays his angles all the time. He's just not that good of a goalie at this point of his career. 

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6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

mad-max-beyond-thunderdome-tina-turner.j

What an embarrassment this team is at the moment.

When I started on this board the Red Wings had the repuation of not only being annoyingly good year after year, but also being the best organization in sports. No drama, efficient drafting, highly respected players, the list goes and goes, i dont need to remind everyone of that. We could look down our noses at everyone and life was good on top, even through a down year.

The hope is gone. After the Montreal game Zberg, the last bastion of Red Wings elitism and power, said this current team has embarrassed everyone who's ever worn the winged wheel. Its true. Watching this team is like when you're running late for work and dont eat breakfast. The coffee tears youre empty stomach up all morning, but you remember you packed a delicious sandwhich for lunch. Fresh thin sliced rare roast beef. The fancy cheese you cant afford. The brioche roll. Hot damn you love to think about. Then lunch hour roles around and you find out your wife is having an affair. The snobby pride is gone, were getting screwed left n right. 

So now that that's said, naturally i wanna funnel all my frustations onto our goaltenders. Mrazek is finished here. He's sitting on a 3.62 GAA and .891 sv%. No goalie, even with bad D, survives these numbers. Its a repeat from last year and hes in a contract year. Im saying it now: Mrazek will be playing in Czech Republic next year. No team wanted him during the expansion. No team will want him next year. How long do we lie to ourselves like with Brendan Smith and say hes gonna turn it around? Hes less than Smith was at 25 already. Its over. How can anyone prefer him to Howard?

Flame on.

Picture: Love the Thunderdome reference.:ok:

First bold: I thought you said before that you signed up just over a year ago? :ph34r:

Second bold: This seems curiously specific. :tounge:

As far as the goaltending situation goes:

1. Keep Howard until the end of his contract. He's still a good goalie, and this team isn't good enough right now to worry about upgrading. Re-sign him when his contract is up unless a prospect pans out or there is something better in free agency.

2. As for Mrazek, how does that work since he's a RFA? If they don't make an offer he becomes an UFA and they lose him for nothing? If he doesn't like the offer he can refuse to sign it and go to arbitration? If there is a way where he is gone and the Wings still get something out of it, that's what I prefer.

3.Sign a cheap, competent backup for Jimmy in free agency on a 1 or 2 year deal.

4. I always see goalies as the NHL equivalent to Running Backs in the NFL. There are always decent ones available in free agency. They are easy and cheap to acquire via trade if necessary. If you're team is really good, they don't have to be. Don't waste a pick in the top 2 rounds to draft one for the reasons I just mentioned.

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2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Picture: Love the Thunderdome reference.:ok:

First bold: I thought you said before that you signed up just over a year ago? :ph34r:

Second bold: This seems curiously specific. :tounge:

As far as the goaltending situation goes:

1. Keep Howard until the end of his contract. He's still a good goalie, and this team isn't good enough right now to worry about upgrading. Re-sign him when his contract is up unless a prospect pans out or there is something better in free agency.

2. As for Mrazek, how does that work since he's a RFA? If they don't make an offer he becomes an UFA and they lose him for nothing? If he doesn't like the offer he can refuse to sign it and go to arbitration? If there is a way where he is gone and the Wings still get something out of it, that's what I prefer.

3.Sign a cheap, competent backup for Jimmy in free agency on a 1 or 2 year deal.

4. I always see goalies as the NHL equivalent to Running Backs in the NFL. There are always decent ones available in free agency. They are easy and cheap to acquire via trade if necessary. If you're team is really good, they don't have to be. Don't waste a pick in the top 2 rounds to draft one for the reasons I just mentioned.

If we don't qualify him before FA opens this year, he becomes a UFA. Pretty sure qualifying offers are almost never accepted and are more just a formality that is required to keep the player an RFA while you continue to negotiate. Kinda like a deposit on a large purchase. Shows good faith and retains your spot at the front of the line.

So say we do qualify him... we would then continue to own his RFA rights, and can negotiate with him until December 1st of next year. He's already been to arbitration once in his career, so he cannot go again. If the parties do not reach an agreement by December 1st, Mrazek is barred from NHL for the remainder of the season. At that point he would jet to Europe... Not sure if he would remain our RFA the next season, or if he becomes a UFA at that point. Someone smarter than me probably knows. Either way, he'd probably be finished in the NHL at that point and everyone would go home with nothing. We'd also look like real jerks to other players and the union.

Depending on what we want to accomplish with him, If we qualify him, we essentially want one of two things to happen:

1. He accepts a very low offer and we retain him as our goalie.

2. Another team submits a predatory offer sheet on him, which we accept and then receive draft pick compensation.

The problem with #1 is that that only makes sense if you actually want to keep him. If you'd rather sign a different backup on the open market, then be the classy one, tell him thank you for his time in Detroit, and cut him loose by not qualifying him and allowing him to become UFA. You don't want him anyway, why play games with the mans career?

But what about compensation??? That leads to #2...

The problem with #2 is we are not guaranteed to receive a predatory off sheet from another team. They rarely ever happen, and typically only happen with big impact players. So basically Mrazek will not get an offer sheet. AA didn't even get one. So essentially we would end up wasting a roster spot on a player that doesn't play, and the Red Wings would look like stupid idiots who jerk players around. It would be bad. Also I believe that in order to receive draft pick compensation on a predatory offer sheet the offer needs to be over $1.3 million. If someone offered him $1.25 we could either say ok and get nothing, or we say no and give him the $1.25 ourselves. Maybe if you want to keep him that's ok for you.

It comes down to: if you want him, qualify him. If you don't want him, be the classy one and just let him walk away as UFA. He's not valuable enough to simply retain his rights and only his rights. Remember this is a player we exposed at the expansion and no one wanted him. His value has only dropped further since then.

My guess is Mrazek will go unqualified and probably join a team in Europe, unless he's able to find a team that's willing to take him on as a reclamation project like the Rangers did with Pavelec. Problem for us is, no one trades for reclamation projects. 

 

 

 

 

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Sorry, I was assuming the question was which one do you go with now. That is why I said if I had to choose, I'd go with Mrazek. Trade Jimmys cap, hold on tight with Petr and let him walk July. That would be my plan. 

We aren' gaining $4M in cap space next year, we already have that space available next year. I'm all for letting Petr go. But I want to gain Jimmys cap next year as well as not re-signing Petr.

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If you'd spend less time trying to build a useless forum reputation and more time learning valuable real world skills like COBOL and how to market your stocks, you could afford cheese and maybe your wife wouldn't have to go looking for a better sandwich provider. I have a 7 slice retirement fund already, loser.

Also, worth noting: A qualifying offer for Mrazek would have to be $4.15M. I don't know if QOs are ever accepted, but if they ever are, this could be one of those rare few times. Even if not, the minimum he could get through arbitration is ~$3.5M. Barring a significant turn-around, or an abundance of cap space, I don't see Mrazek coming back.

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I’m far from sold on Mrazek at this point, but Howard is never going on be our savior, and let’s be honest, he’ll likely get injured at some point soon, and even if not, he’s generally on the tail end of his up and down career.

I still think we need to give Mrazek more of a chance given that we’re short on players with higher potential and at this point, we’ve got nothing to lose as far as I’m concerned this season. Give him more consistent starts to see if he can get his game going again and if he can’t, have fun back in the Czech Republic next year. He’s got absolutely no chance of proving anything one way or another getting 1-2 starts a month behind this s*** team though. He needs more starts. 

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On 12/3/2017 at 4:21 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Jimmy only has next year left on his contract. I don't see the need to move Jimmy at all, because his cap hit will go down after next year as a 35+ player. We will need him in order to shelter our young goalies as well. If Jimmy is traded, it wouldn't be till next years deadline

None isn't an option because it would be silly. Going from 2 goalies to no goalies would be foolish, and we all know this organization wouldn't make that drastic of a move anyway.

I guess the real question should be, do we even bother qualifying Mrazek as an RFA? With the amount of money we need to re-sign other players, it will just be nice to have his $4 mil off the books. The Conklin/Gustavsson option is probably better at this point. We can pick up a career backup like Peter Budaj or something for next to nothing. Use him as a backup for Jimjam until a new kid can make the roster.

Re-signing Mrazek to a cheap deal is an option, but it just doesn't seem feasible. The relationship has soured. As a young man who's career is trending backwards, he'll want to make a lateral move to a new team to right the ship and save his career. And from the teams perspective, he's not providing even backup quality numbers, so why continue with that headache at even $1 million?

I see both parties shaking hands and walking away after this year.

Coreau and McCollum are not playing super great in GR so far this season. Petruzzelli was great in the USHL, but he's struggling in college now. Larsson is having a fantastic year, but like with Petruzzelli, he's in the USHL, so who can say. Van Pottelberghe is having a down year so far in Switzerland. Machovsky is having a good year in Toledo, but it's Toledo...

Do we even own the rights to Chase Perry or Jake Paterson anymore? Red Wings don't seem interested in either.

Personally, I'd hold onto Howard and let Mrazek walk after this season. Sign no new goaltenders in the offseason. Call up Coreau and Machovsky at the same time and let them duke it out for the backup spot beneath Jimmy. Re-sign Jimmy after next year for an agreeable 3-4 million on a shorter contract, unless there's a big fish we can reel in, then we can let Howard go. But realistically I see the organization exercising the Conklin/Monster option, and leaving the kids down in GR next year, none have really pulled away as clear NHL options.

Mrazek flopping is a real situation. Howard's gonna age out completely in a few years, and when that happens there is no definite young gun to pull up... at least not yet. 

 

And roll 6 skaters? Daring plan sir...

The none was more tongue to cheek. I wasn't really expecting much out of it. Bad sarcasm on the night both goalies got light up like the 4th July. Sorry.

But yeah I agree what most of what you said, wasn't really looking to debate that having zero goalies is better than Howard or Marzek

Edited by xault

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Upon further review, I am going with keeping Howard and not qualifying Mrazek. If I thought there was a way to keep Mrazek at a much lower salary, I would say do that and hope that he finally turns it around. But at 3-4 mil, no thanks. I do think that if Mrazek ends up ends a free agent that someone signs him and gives him another chance tho.

Here is a list of pending UFA goalies this summer. I am not real hopeful on getting someone both good and cheap:

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/goaltender/

Obviously, I would love Khudobin, but he's going to get starter money somewhere. I guess I would try for Chad Johnson? Not a very sexy signing tho.

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27 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Upon further review, I am going with keeping Howard and not qualifying Mrazek. If I thought there was a way to keep Mrazek at a much lower salary, I would say do that and hope that he finally turns it around. But at 3-4 mil, no thanks. I do think that if Mrazek ends up ends a free agent that someone signs him and gives him another chance tho.

Here is a list of pending UFA goalies this summer. I am not real hopeful on getting someone both good and cheap:

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/goaltender/

Obviously, I would love Khudobin, but he's going to get starter money somewhere. I guess I would try for Chad Johnson? Not a very sexy signing tho.

I highly doubt it. he was given a chance to start in Carolina and lost the job. He's a solid backup, but not a starter unless someone is just desperate.

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Neither have any real trade value. Howard still plays good most nights. Prior to Saturday he had a .920 save %, which is well above average. Mrazek just needs to go. Non-tender him and save us the 3.5 to 4 million it will take to resign him. He needs a fresh start and we need the cap space.

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30 minutes ago, kliq said:

I highly doubt it. he was given a chance to start in Carolina and lost the job. He's a solid backup, but not a starter unless someone is just desperate.

Really?  He's outplaying Rask this year in Boston and is 4th in the NHL in GAA so far this season and 2nd in save pct. I can totally see someone giving him another shot. Here's his stats this year:

2017-2018 Regular Season
GP W L OT GAA Sv%
10 7 0 2 2.22 .932

 

Maybe he's one of those guys that plays better as a backup, IDK. But, I would take those stats as a backup for sure.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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14 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Really?  He's outplaying Rask this year in Boston and is 4th in the NHL in GAA so far this season and 2nd in save pct. I can totally see someone giving him another shot. Here's his stats this year:

2017-2018 Regular Season
GP W L OT GAA Sv%
10 7 0 2 2.22 .932

 

Maybe he's one of those guys that plays better as a backup, IDK. But, I would take those stats as a backup for sure.

That's what I think.

In 2013 for the Bruins, in 14 games he had a 2.32 GAA and a 92% Save %.

His first year on Carolina, he actually played well, pretty much replicated the same stats, but if I remember correctly he took over late from Ward.

Second year on Carolina his GAA jumped to 2.72 and his Save % dropped to 90% (I remember this very well because I had him on my fantasy team that year lol.)

Then he went to Anaheim where he played poorly, and finally back to Boston last year where he played poorly as well.

This year he finally seems to have that 2013 game back, but I believe its because he plays a limited amount of games (ie. small sample size), and likely he is strategically started. If he was 25, sure someone would give him a chance, but at 31 I would be shocked if he was given a starters role.

Look at Budaj, similar story, and had a great year last year, but didnt land him anything more then a backup position on TB. Though he is 35, so I'm sure that hurt him.   

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On 12/3/2017 at 8:59 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If we don't qualify him before FA opens this year, he becomes a UFA. Pretty sure qualifying offers are almost never accepted and are more just a formality that is required to keep the player an RFA while you continue to negotiate. Kinda like a deposit on a large purchase. Shows good faith and retains your spot at the front of the line.

So say we do qualify him... we would then continue to own his RFA rights, and can negotiate with him until December 1st of next year. He's already been to arbitration once in his career, so he cannot go again. If the parties do not reach an agreement by December 1st, Mrazek is barred from NHL for the remainder of the season. At that point he would jet to Europe... Not sure if he would remain our RFA the next season, or if he becomes a UFA at that point. Someone smarter than me probably knows. Either way, he'd probably be finished in the NHL at that point and everyone would go home with nothing. We'd also look like real jerks to other players and the union.

Depending on what we want to accomplish with him, If we qualify him, we essentially want one of two things to happen:

1. He accepts a very low offer and we retain him as our goalie.

2. Another team submits a predatory offer sheet on him, which we accept and then receive draft pick compensation.

The problem with #1 is that that only makes sense if you actually want to keep him. If you'd rather sign a different backup on the open market, then be the classy one, tell him thank you for his time in Detroit, and cut him loose by not qualifying him and allowing him to become UFA. You don't want him anyway, why play games with the mans career?

But what about compensation??? That leads to #2...

The problem with #2 is we are not guaranteed to receive a predatory off sheet from another team. They rarely ever happen, and typically only happen with big impact players. So basically Mrazek will not get an offer sheet. AA didn't even get one. So essentially we would end up wasting a roster spot on a player that doesn't play, and the Red Wings would look like stupid idiots who jerk players around. It would be bad. Also I believe that in order to receive draft pick compensation on a predatory offer sheet the offer needs to be over $1.3 million. If someone offered him $1.25 we could either say ok and get nothing, or we say no and give him the $1.25 ourselves. Maybe if you want to keep him that's ok for you.

It comes down to: if you want him, qualify him. If you don't want him, be the classy one and just let him walk away as UFA. He's not valuable enough to simply retain his rights and only his rights. Remember this is a player we exposed at the expansion and no one wanted him. His value has only dropped further since then.

My guess is Mrazek will go unqualified and probably join a team in Europe, unless he's able to find a team that's willing to take him on as a reclamation project like the Rangers did with Pavelec. Problem for us is, no one trades for reclamation projects. 

 

 

 

 

So...Break a deal and spin the wheel? :hysterical:

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