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2019 Draft

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yup, that's a pretty safe bet, considering Megan and Puempel will play 60+ games in the AHL, while Zadina will play <40...

Hey they both did it this year. For a kid who was touted as a possible NHL walk on I am underwhelmed by this.

29 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If you were fishing for marlin and caught brook trout and steelheads, then I can explain to u why u didn't catch any marlin. Hint: salinity.

Would u decide on a nickname already?

I don't even understand this nickname. @Jonas Mahonas explain.

                       
                             
                             
                             
                             
               

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52 minutes ago, derblaueClaus said:

If he isn't taken at 4 or 5 maybe we should trade up ? If the Avs and Kings want to that is.

I think the only way the Avs or Kings would want to trade back a spot or two is if they don't want Byram. And if that's the case, no need to trade up. I want Byram over any other player (outside the top two), but I don't think I'd trade up, unless the cost were minimal (it wouldn't be).

22 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:
 

Hey they both did it this year. For a kid who was touted as a possible NHL walk on I am underwhelmed by this.

                       
               

I'm not sure many touted Zadina to be an NHL walk on. Some probably thought he had a chance, which he did, but most players drafted beyond the first couple picks in the draft, are at least one season away from the NHL. Zadina being outscored by two AHL vets as an 18/19 year old does not concern me in the least. 

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22 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think the only way the Avs or Kings would want to trade back a spot or two is if they don't want Byram. And if that's the case, no need to trade up. I want Byram over any other player (outside the top two), but I don't think I'd trade up, unless the cost were minimal (it wouldn't be).

I'm not sure many touted Zadina to be an NHL walk on. Some probably thought he had a chance, which he did, but most players drafted beyond the first couple picks in the draft, are at least one season away from the NHL. Zadina being outscored by two AHL vets as an 18/19 year old does not concern me in the least. 

I mean Larkin already had a full NHL season, 23 goals, and 45 points at 19. The 6th overall from his draft class had 55 GP at 19. The 6th overall from the 2015 draft class had 70 GP at 19. The 6th overall from the 2016 draft class had 70 GP at 19. Hell, even Rasmussen had 62 GP at 19.

Zadina has 9, and was a middle 6 winger in the AHL

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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20 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I mean Larkin already had a full NHL season, 23 goals, and 45 points at 19. The 6th overall from his draft class had 55 GP at 19. The 6th overall from the 2015 draft class had 70 GP at 19. The 6th overall from the 2016 draft class had 70 GP at 19. Hell, even Rasmussen had 62 GP at 19.

Zadina has 9

You want to use the age 19 as a standard. I'll use draft +1 as my standard. By the way, Zadina will still be 19 to start next season...

In Larkin's draft +1 season, he played 0 NHL games. Ditto for the 6th overall pick in 2014 (Jake Virtanen). The 6th overall pick in 2015 (Pavel Zacha) played one NHL game. The 6th overall pick in 2016 (Matthew Tkachuk) played a full season (76 games). The 6th overall pick in 2017 (Cody Glass) has yet to play an NHL game. Rasmussen didn't play a single game in his draft +1 season. Zadina (only) played 9 NHL games (to slide his ELC)...

Edited by krsmith17

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17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You want to use the age 19 as a standard. I'll use draft +1 as my standard. By the way, Zadina will still be 19 to start next season...

In Larkin's draft +1 season, he played 0 NHL games. Ditto for the 6th overall pick in 2014 (Jake Virtanen). The 6th overall pick in 2015 (Pavel Zacha) played one NHL game. The 6th overall pick in 2016 (Matthew Tkachuk) played a full season (76 games). The 6th overall pick in 2017 (Cody Glass) has yet to play an NHL game. Rasmussen didn't play a single game in his draft +1 season. Zadina (only) played 9 NHL games (to slide his ELC)...

Zadina will be 19 next season for all of a month and a half

Zadina was one of the oldest players in his draft class, he's only 7 months younger than Ras. Which is even more of reason he should have had a stronger showing to make the team, and even more disappointing considering he didn't excel in the AHL either.

What is it about the +1 season that magically makes these players NHL ready? If I draft a 20 year old at 6th overall does he require a +1 season too?

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2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:
 

Hey they both did it this year. For a kid who was touted as a possible NHL walk on I am underwhelmed by this.

I don't even understand this nickname. @Jonas Mahonas explain.

                       
                             
                             
                             
                             
               

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-pinch

 

Sorry.  We already had a Z/Zata.

 

Z-Pinch is the name I bestowed upon Zadina.

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57 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Zadina will be 19 next season for all of a month and a half

Zadina was one of the oldest players in his draft class, he's only 7 months younger than Ras. Which is even more of reason he should have had a stronger showing to make the team, and even more disappointing considering he didn't excel in the AHL either.

What is it about the +1 season that magically makes these players NHL ready? If I draft a 20 year old at 6th overall does he require a +1 season too?

Yes, Zadina was one of the older players in his draft class, but he was also one of the youngest in the league last year. Does that not account for something?

There's nothing "magical" about the draft +1 season, any more than being 19 years of age. That's the point. I don't care how well a player does in one season, whether it's his draft year or draft +2 year, when he's 18 years old or 20 years old. What matters to me is how they project, and eventually how they play over many years. Zadina didn't have a spectacular rookie season, but considering he was one of the youngest players in the AHL, he had a solid season. I think he will be much improved this season, and great in the future.

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I was watching a Canadian show and Elliott Friedman was on and they revealed Sam cosentino’s draft rankings and his top 5 are 

hughes

kakko

byram 

turcotte 

zegras 

That would be worst case scenario for myself cause I’m not too high on dach and cozens personally and prefer those guys in the top 5 along with podkolzin and boldy 

Friedman also said the hawks and kings are looking to win now and aren’t likely to wait for podkolzin , mentioned Colorado as being a team that would be patient and said yzerman is me patient and wouldn’t have a problem with podkolzin who’s committed to russianfor two years 

I suspected him dropping some spots lately were not only for a lack of production at the last tournament but also his commitment to the khl , I wouldn’t have a problem waiting but does anyone know if he’d be able to leave after a year ? What are the terms with the nhl and khl?wouldnt think it was a sure thing since the leafs d ozigahonov left for Russia now 

 

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Byram could absolutely fall to us at 6. I'm not saying it's something we should count on, but I do feel like the Byram HYPE! is getting a wee bit excessive on the interwebz.

Been meaning to do a mock draft. I'll try to do it tomorrow.

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2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Byram could absolutely fall to us at 6. I'm not saying it's something we should count on, but I do feel like the Byram HYPE! is getting a wee bit excessive on the interwebz.

Been meaning to do a mock draft. I'll try to do it tomorrow.

Why not now?

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3 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I was watching a Canadian show and Elliott Friedman was on and they revealed Sam cosentino’s draft rankings and his top 5 are 

hughes

kakko

byram 

turcotte 

zegras 

That would be worst case scenario for myself cause I’m not too high on dach and cozens personally and prefer those guys in the top 5 along with podkolzin and boldy 

Friedman also said the hawks and kings are looking to win now and aren’t likely to wait for podkolzin , mentioned Colorado as being a team that would be patient and said yzerman is me patient and wouldn’t have a problem with podkolzin who’s committed to russianfor two years 

I suspected him dropping some spots lately were not only for a lack of production at the last tournament but also his commitment to the khl , I wouldn’t have a problem waiting but does anyone know if he’d be able to leave after a year ? What are the terms with the nhl and khl?wouldnt think it was a sure thing since the leafs d ozigahonov left for Russia now 

 

Same. I, like many, would absolutely love to land Byram, but I really don't think he's available at 6. Someone will want a dman before that.

This draft, more so than any others I've paid attention to, has me uncertain of who I'd want. Turcotte, Zegras, Caufield, Podkolzin, not to mention I'm open to the idea that Cozens will be better than I think. So hard to choose. 

Part of me really thinks Zegras is going to be the surprise catch, like Pettersson was.  

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17 minutes ago, Keep Your Stick On the Ice said:

Byram all the way for me. However, like some of you I don't believe he'll fall to #6. With that being the case I'm not sure who we should take...BUT I definitely trust Stevie & Co. to make the right choice!

Blackhawks take Byram.

Avs take Podkolzin.

Kings take Cozens.

 

Who do we take?

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13 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Blackhawks take Byram.

Avs take Podkolzin.

Kings take Cozens.

 

Who do we take?

Probably Dach or Turcotte.  The draft priorities should be defense, than center.  Podkolzin is a winger.  Unless he's the next Ovechkin, I don't want a winger over a center.  

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25 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Blackhawks take Byram.

Avs take Podkolzin.

Kings take Cozens.

 

Who do we take?

Turcotte/zegras

10 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Probably Dach or Turcotte.  The draft priorities should be defense, than center.  Podkolzin is a winger.  Unless he's the next Ovechkin, I don't want a winger over a center.  

Way I see it we have veleno who a lot are high on so I’m still hoping he can be a 2c and I don’t know if Rasmussen will still be a center if so he can maybe be the 3c I’m not too worried , I’d even look to move up and get beecher who’s a beast and a c 

if we somehow ended up with podkolzin and beecher as our first two picks and then went off and got thrun and other d prospects I’d say we had two amazing back to back drafts and guys like athanasiou become expendable and can be moved for a young dman. I just think right now that bertuzzi Larkin mantha Line is untouchable and after that we got so many young kids coming I can see athanasiou being shipped for some prime assets

if we hit good this draft and get lucky and get in the top 3 next season for the draft I’d say we’d be ready to make some serious noise for the 2020-2021 season 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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19 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What is it about the +1 season that magically makes these players NHL ready? If I draft a 20 year old at 6th overall does he require a +1 season too?

That's a terrible example because I doubt you'd ever see a 20 year player being drafted at 6th overall.  If a player is 20 years old and hasn't been drafted yet....more often than not, they don't get drafted at all and may make their way to the NHL as a free agent (rare)......but if they do get drafted, not sure how they would all of a sudden be drafted so high.

You absolutely have to base comparisons on draft year.  It's very difficult to compare a player born at the beginning of the year to one born at the end of that same year.   In that case you have almost a full year difference anyway, but it gets more challenging when you get towards the middle....in pure age...may not be a big difference, but hockey experience gets impacted by cut-offs.

Take the biggest comparison players of the last 15 years....Crosby vs. Ovechkin.  Everyone sees these guys as the same age, coming into the NHL at the same time.  But Ovechkin is almost a full 2 years older.  He was only drafted 1 year earlier though because of where their birth dates fell.  If Ovechkin had of been playing in North America, even though he's almost a full 2 years older than Crosby, he really would have only had 1 additional year of major junior experience due to the cut-off.

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39 minutes ago, toby91_ca said:

That's a terrible example because I doubt you'd ever see a 20 year player being drafted at 6th overall.  If a player is 20 years old and hasn't been drafted yet....more often than not, they don't get drafted at all and may make their way to the NHL as a free agent (rare)......but if they do get drafted, not sure how they would all of a sudden be drafted so high.

You absolutely have to base comparisons on draft year.  It's very difficult to compare a player born at the beginning of the year to one born at the end of that same year.   In that case you have almost a full year difference anyway, but it gets more challenging when you get towards the middle....in pure age...may not be a big difference, but hockey experience gets impacted by cut-offs.

Take the biggest comparison players of the last 15 years....Crosby vs. Ovechkin.  Everyone sees these guys as the same age, coming into the NHL at the same time.  But Ovechkin is almost a full 2 years older.  He was only drafted 1 year earlier though because of where their birth dates fell.  If Ovechkin had of been playing in North America, even though he's almost a full 2 years older than Crosby, he really would have only had 1 additional year of major junior experience due to the cut-off.

Terrible example or not, you're missing my point.

If I draft a player in 2019 who will be turning 18 on 9/15/2019, and then draft a player in 2020 who already turned 18 on 9/16/2019. Are they really at different stages of their life/career because they were in different draft classes? IMO, no. And I would posture that the player born 9/16/2019 should arguably be more NHL ready at the time of his selection.

18 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes, Zadina was one of the older players in his draft class, but he was also one of the youngest in the league last year. Does that not account for something?

There's nothing "magical" about the draft +1 season, any more than being 19 years of age. That's the point. I don't care how well a player does in one season, whether it's his draft year or draft +2 year, when he's 18 years old or 20 years old. What matters to me is how they project, and eventually how they play over many years. Zadina didn't have a spectacular rookie season, but considering he was one of the youngest players in the AHL, he had a solid season. I think he will be much improved this season, and great in the future.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is that Larkin entered the NHL full time at 19 and 3 months of age. He went on to score 23 goals and 45 pts that season. For a 15th overall pick that's pretty thrilling.

Comparatively, Zadina enter the AHL full time at 18 and 10 months of age. He went on to score 16 goals and 39 pts that season with a brief NHL callup. For a 6th overall pick, and when considering Larkin's performance at a similar age, It's a little disappointing.

And I think it's completely reasonable to be disappointed by this. He should be the best player we've drafted in a very long time, but he's already showing signs he may not be Larkin level material. And I think Larkin is a good measuring stick for our future stars.

Now he could very well just need time to develop. Kucherov didn't really become relevant in the league until he was 21. But then again, Kucherov was a 2nd round pick, and few teams or fans have expectations that a 2nd rounder can step right in to the league.

19 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Nerd

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21 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I mean Larkin already had a full NHL season, 23 goals, and 45 points at 19. The 6th overall from his draft class had 55 GP at 19. The 6th overall from the 2015 draft class had 70 GP at 19. The 6th overall from the 2016 draft class had 70 GP at 19. Hell, even Rasmussen had 62 GP at 19.

Zadina has 9, and was a middle 6 winger in the AHL

CRL please don't make valid points, please allow for revisionist rhetoric vis-a-vis Zadina...  please note that if the 6th (former projected top 3) pick tops out as a Tatar (60th) or Nyquist (121st) type player that isn't a bust.

These are the rules... If you don't follow them you run the risk of being bullied and called a troll.

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4 minutes ago, mackel said:

CRL please don't make valid points, please allow for revisionist rhetoric vis-a-vis Zadina...  please note that if the 6th (former projected top 3) pick tops out as a Tatar (60th) or Nyquist (121st) type player that isn't a bust.

These are the rules... If you don't follow them you run the risk of being bullied and called a troll.

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Wouldn’t years played and years played in specific levels/league be more determinate of development than age?  Further, is draft class not based the the former?  I haven’t seen any other analysis that favors the age metric until later in player’s careers when years in the league are too unevenly spread across players.  

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