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Dabura

2020 Draft Thread

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Askarov would be nice to get, but I don't see them using the 4th on a goalie. If he's still on the board in the 2nd round though (which is a huge if), i think it's a no brainer to grab him. One can hope. 

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Stay away from Perfetti, that's my new thing. 

7 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Askarov would be nice to get, but I don't see them using the 4th on a goalie. If he's still on the board in the 2nd round though (which is a huge if), i think it's a no brainer to grab him. One can hope. 

He won't be, and I really hope we don't take him 4th. I hate to say it but I'm really hoping Stutzle falls to us, though I don't expect it. Failing that I'd like Raymond, and to a lesser extent I'd be ok with Rossi, Drysdale. I've a bad feeling about Perfetti though. 

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1 minute ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Stay away from Perfetti, that's my new thing. 

He won't be, and I really hope we don't take him 4th. I hate to say it but I'm really hoping Stutzle falls to us, though I don't expect it. Failing that I'd like Raymond, and to a lesser extent I'd be ok with Rossi, Drysdale. I've a bad feeling about Perfetti though. 

Nah, taking him 4th is a huge crapshoot. Although he is touted as the best G prospect since Price (not sure if he was taken 6th?), you really have to be in a desperate situation to take a goalie that high. Price hasn't won the Habs anything after all the money thrown at him, probably never will. Flower won three Cups after being taken first, but he's an anomaly. DiPietro was a failure after being taken first.  We have plenty of UFA options with only Bernier's $3 million on the books for next year. We do need to take more chances on goalies this draft though. Three 2nd rounders, should use one at least on a goalie, cause the late round picks aren't doing it. Our prospect pool is pretty rough. If any of them make it to the NHL, it's going to be quite awhile, barring another Mrazek situation popping up. 

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Too bad Byfield won't be around by the time the Wings pick. 6'4 215lb, skates excellent for his size, huge offensive talent. Saw him play a few times this past season. I'd be surprised if he doesn't tempt the team picking first, actually. He'll be gone second at the latest.

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9 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Askarov would be nice to get, but I don't see them using the 4th on a goalie. If he's still on the board in the 2nd round though (which is a huge if), i think it's a no brainer to grab him. One can hope. 

I highly doubt Askarov slips out of the 1st round, but that's the only way I would want to draft him. I would never use a top 10 pick on a goaltender, no matter how talented, especially in a top heavy draft like this one.

Personally, I don't like drafting goaltenders in the top 2 rounds of any draft. The position is way too unpredictable to project, and those picks are way too valuable to waste. There are high end goalies drafted beyond the 2nd round, just about every year. We need to hit on those, and we may have already done so.

Larsson and Brattstrom were both 6th round picks, and Eliasson and Petruzzelli were both 3rd round picks. I think one of those four could pan out, and if not, pick one up via free agency or trade. Don't waste valuable picks on such a crapshoot position, unless a "can't miss" goaltender like Askarov slips to us in the 2nd round...

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9 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Stay away from Perfetti, that's my new thing. 

Why though? I admit, I wasn't that high on Perfetti up until a few weeks ago, but that was mainly because I hadn't put much time into anyone outside of the top three, until after the draft lottery... Since then, I've watched / read a lot of videos / articles on him, and the other players in our range, and I think he may have the highest ceiling of any of the players that could be available at 4th overall...

I think his skating, or lack thereof is being overstated, and what he may lack in top end speed, he gains in hockey IQ, which is said to be off the charts, and work ethic. Perfetti is an extremely smart player, can slow the game down, and works like a dog. Those are attributes I value highly. In saying that, skating is another attribute that I put a ton of stock into, so if Yzerman believes it may hold him back, I'd pass as well.

I think I'm still leaning Raymond, because he's a similar player in a lot of ways. He thinks the game at a high level, plays a solid two-way game, but is also an elite skater. I agree though, I'm still hoping Stutzle drops to us, and I honestly think it could happen. I wouldn't be shocked at all if LA or Ottawa take Drysdale in the top three.

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15 hours ago, town123 said:

Until you see Stutzle skate and stick handle like he's the second coming of Pavel....lol

Just sayin'. Somehow Makar slipped to 4th, Pettersson slipped to 5th, Quinn Hughes slipped to 7th, etc. I've seen prominent internet armchair analyst types who don't even have Stutzle in their top fives.

Everyone is dumb, no one knows anything. We just have to hope our scouts are less dumb than other teams' scouts.

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11 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Price hasn't won the Habs anything after all the money thrown at him, probably never will. Flower won three Cups after being taken first, but he's an anomaly.

I would say the difference between Price and Fleury is that Fleury was fortunate enough to play behind Cup-worthy teams (led by Sidney Crosby). The Habs have lacked elite talent for pretty much all of Price's NHL career thus far. It's mind-boggling. I'm pretty sure they tried my grandmother as their 1C at one point.

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11 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Stay away from Perfetti, that's my new thing. 

He won't be, and I really hope we don't take him 4th. I hate to say it but I'm really hoping Stutzle falls to us, though I don't expect it. Failing that I'd like Raymond, and to a lesser extent I'd be ok with Rossi, Drysdale. I've a bad feeling about Perfetti though. 

Im smashing s*** if we take perfetti , if the wings didnt fall back perfetti wouldnt even be mentioned as a top 5 pick ... that should say something . Dont take him cause he plays for your buddys team , id rather listen to hakan andersson and pick raymond . I think the one and only time we took a swede in the first from i remember is kronwall. Hakan must be salivating at taking a top swedish prospect for once 

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I highly doubt Askarov slips out of the 1st round, but that's the only way I would want to draft him. I would never use a top 10 pick on a goaltender, no matter how talented, especially in a top heavy draft like this one.

Personally, I don't like drafting goaltenders in the top 2 rounds of any draft. The position is way too unpredictable to project, and those picks are way too valuable to waste. There are high end goalies drafted beyond the 2nd round, just about every year. We need to hit on those, and we may have already done so.

Larsson and Brattstrom were both 6th round picks, and Eliasson and Petruzzelli were both 3rd round picks. I think one of those four could pan out, and if not, pick one up via free agency or trade. Don't waste valuable picks on such a crapshoot position, unless a "can't miss" goaltender like Askarov slips to us in the 2nd round...

I can totally see it happening , if hes suppose to be that damn good we might have no choice . If lafraniere ends up being in our division .... ottawa coming up + byfield/stutzle ... bos,tb, tor ...mtl has nice prospect pool , if buff ever turns it around what f***en chance will we ever have?

Our best chances might be to add a star goalie and add a hell of a blue line .... im all in for lucas raymond but it wouldnt surprise me at all to end up like #9-10 and end up with askarov and a few more picks ... scouts rarely salivate this much for goalie prospects so i do think he’ll make an impact

If someones a cant miss prospect like askarov theres a zero chance they drop to 2nd ..l ugh i really f***en envy ottawa man if im them im trading up with that 3rd 1st and using some of those many assets and possibly end up stutzle drysdale askarov .... ughhh

Really wish we had another first f***, oh well

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41 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Just sayin'. Somehow Makar slipped to 4th, Pettersson slipped to 5th, Quinn Hughes slipped to 7th, etc. I've seen prominent internet armchair analyst types who don't even have Stutzle in their top fives.

Everyone is dumb, no one knows anything. We just have to hope our scouts are less dumb than other teams' scouts.

Maybe its just me butt I dont remember makar and pettersson being touted as top 2-3 guys? Hughes likely would have fallen to us if Kotkaniemi didnt come out of nowhere and arizona taking hayton , certainly earlier than 7

i wanted stutzle/byfield but im really loving raymond now , he was a highly touted #3 pick all year and he started getting fed few minutes of ice time per game which i think dropped his stock . Theres 6 games for raymond/holtz next season before the draft , maybe the best thing for us is if raymond goes off for like 10 pts in 6 games and yzerman will have no choice but to take him .... unless we end up with stutzle cause of it , either way we win .

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11 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I hate to say it but I'm really hoping Stutzle falls to us, though I don't expect it. Failing that I'd like Raymond, and to a lesser extent I'd be ok with Rossi, Drysdale. I've a bad feeling about Perfetti though. 

11 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Too bad Byfield won't be around by the time the Wings pick. 6'4 215lb, skates excellent for his size, huge offensive talent. Saw him play a few times this past season. I'd be surprised if he doesn't tempt the team picking first, actually. He'll be gone second at the latest.

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I think I'm still leaning Raymond, because he's a similar player in a lot of ways. He thinks the game at a high level, plays a solid two-way game, but is also an elite skater. I agree though, I'm still hoping Stutzle drops to us, and I honestly think it could happen. I wouldn't be shocked at all if LA or Ottawa take Drysdale in the top three.

I can't see LA taking Drysdale. Doughty's only 30. Byram is a stud. Bjornfot is a stud. I know their center prospect pool is insanely deep ("Meanwhile, in Detroit..."), but I don't think any of those prospects has legit Kopitar potential. Byfield is the exceedingly rare prospect who absolutely does have legit Kopitar potential. What's the ideal place for a prospect with legit Kopitar potential? Kopitar's team. Ah, but what are the odds that Byfield would end up on...oh, right. tl;dr Byfield to LA is just too Hollywood-perfect to not happen. It's almost like the lotto was rigged or something. Weird!

I think Ottawa takes Stutzle. They desperately need an exciting straw-that-stirs-the-drink playmaking forward. Tkachuk + Stutzle = 2/3rds of a terror line.

I don't know who we're going to pick. I'm trying to keep an open mind and not set any expectations. I could talk all day long about how, say, Raymond makes all the sense in the world and then Yzerman could take Holtz and I'd say, "Actually, yeah, I guess I should've seen that coming."

And y'know what? I'd be more than ok with Holtz.

Getting Stutzle would be great. But if a lot of people are thinking he's a winger...and if there are some questions about how much raw goal-scoring ability is there...and if we're all on the same page about the SHL being a significantly tougher league than the DEL...then I think it's worth questioning how wide the gap between Stutzle and SHLers Holtz & Raymond really is, or if it even exists.

Holtz put up 9 goals and 16 points in 35 SHL games this season. He has a long, well-documented history of being a monster goal-scorer. He's a better prospect than 2018 Zadina. Gimme dat Pastrnak 2.0.

47 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Maybe its just me butt I dont remember makar and pettersson being touted as top 2-3 guys? Hughes likely would have fallen to us if Kotkaniemi didnt come out of nowhere and arizona taking hayton , certainly earlier than 7

No, you're correct. And that's my point. Getting knocked out of the top three sucks hardcore, but we're kidding ourselves if we think the first three guys off the board are definitely going to be the best NHLers this draft produces.

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8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Why though? I admit, I wasn't that high on Perfetti up until a few weeks ago, but that was mainly because I hadn't put much time into anyone outside of the top three, until after the draft lottery... Since then, I've watched / read a lot of videos / articles on him, and the other players in our range, and I think he may have the highest ceiling of any of the players that could be available at 4th overall...

I think his skating, or lack thereof is being overstated, and what he may lack in top end speed, he gains in hockey IQ, which is said to be off the charts, and work ethic. Perfetti is an extremely smart player, can slow the game down, and works like a dog. Those are attributes I value highly. In saying that, skating is another attribute that I put a ton of stock into, so if Yzerman believes it may hold him back, I'd pass as well.

I think I'm still leaning Raymond, because he's a similar player in a lot of ways. He thinks the game at a high level, plays a solid two-way game, but is also an elite skater. I agree though, I'm still hoping Stutzle drops to us, and I honestly think it could happen. I wouldn't be shocked at all if LA or Ottawa take Drysdale in the top three.

After watching a few games of his I'd describe his skating as clunky, It's not even the speed I don't like but the stride and overall mechanics. Can it be remedied over time? Maybe, I'm just not sure how likely that is as I'm not good at projecting what these young guys will look like in 5 years, I simply don't have the experience. So I take it at face value. 

Other than that I'd say he plays a smart, methodical game. But my worry is how he translates that to the NHL pace. Like you said he can slow the game down, it seems to be the primary way he plays, but I'm just not confident he'll be able to do it in the bigs. So if I'm going to take a small center I'd much rather have Rossi, who I think varies the pace of his game much better while also being considerably stronger on his feet despite being smaller. 

What I do love about Perfetti is his wristshot, his release is niiiiiiiice. Much prefer it over any of the others outside of Holtz. But still, just too many "ifs" for me for 4th overall. I could be wrong of course, lots of people who know way more than me seem to really like him. But outside of his production and shot I don't see a lot to be excited about. 

Edited by Wheelchairsuperhero

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9 hours ago, Dabura said:

I would say the difference between Price and Fleury is that Fleury was fortunate enough to play behind Cup-worthy teams (led by Sidney Crosby). The Habs have lacked elite talent for pretty much all of Price's NHL career thus far. It's mind-boggling. I'm pretty sure they tried my grandmother as their 1C at one point.

Yeah, I thought about that after i posted. The draft lottery format was very favorable to them during their rebuild in the early 2000's. Orpik 18th overall in 2000, Whitney 5th in 2002 (traded at the 2009 deadline for Kunitz and Tangradi), Fleury 1st in 2003, Malkin 2nd in 2004, Crosby 1st in 2005, J. Staal 2nd in 2006. Signed Gonchar as a UFA in 2005. They were set.  Since Montreal drafted Price, they've picked no higher than 3rd (twice). The rest they were lower in the order or traded away their first for something or other. Lots of stupid moves by that franchise.

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9 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I can totally see it happening , if hes suppose to be that damn good we might have no choice . If lafraniere ends up being in our division .... ottawa coming up + byfield/stutzle ... bos,tb, tor ...mtl has nice prospect pool , if buff ever turns it around what f***en chance will we ever have?

Our best chances might be to add a star goalie and add a hell of a blue line .... im all in for lucas raymond but it wouldnt surprise me at all to end up like #9-10 and end up with askarov and a few more picks ... scouts rarely salivate this much for goalie prospects so i do think he’ll make an impact

If someones a cant miss prospect like askarov theres a zero chance they drop to 2nd ..l ugh i really f***en envy ottawa man if im them im trading up with that 3rd 1st and using some of those many assets and possibly end up stutzle drysdale askarov .... ughhh

Really wish we had another first f***, oh well

I wouldn't complain about Askarov at 4th overall if they pulled the trigger. Don't see them doing it, but sometimes ya just gotta take a chance. I'd say def skip him if they had G prospects that were close to ready, but none of them are. Good article i came across..they have Holtby in the mix along with Lehner. I'd prefer Lehner. Holtby was always overrated to me and he's gonna want big money and term.

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2020/07/11/detroit-red-wings-goaltending-future/

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10 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I wouldn't complain about Askarov at 4th overall if they pulled the trigger. Don't see them doing it, but sometimes ya just gotta take a chance. I'd say def skip him if they had G prospects that were close to ready, but none of them are. Good article i came across..they have Holtby in the mix along with Lehner. I'd prefer Lehner. Holtby was always overrated to me and he's gonna want big money and term.

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2020/07/11/detroit-red-wings-goaltending-future/

Agreed on all counts. I think I'd be ok with Askarov at 4. BPA-wise, you can make a case for him being the BPA at 4. Need-wise, well, we all know how badly we need a goalie. I doubt it happens, but who knows.

Ultimately, it's all going to come down to what Yzerman thinks. He was all-in on Seider and we didn't learn that until after he'd made the pick. Could be that he's all-in on Askarov and we won't hear a thing about it until after the pick is made and Yzerman says, "He was always our guy. I can't believe you people thought we were going to take Raymond. lmao! Have you seen our goalie depth chart?!"

I do hope we land a good UFA goalie at a good price. Lehner or Markstrom would be nice. But I don't know why any self-respecting goalie would want to play for this team. It'd probably have to be a massive overpay. Worth it? Maybe, maybe not.

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so the NHL has said that all the teams playing in the 5 game play-in ARE considered post-season playing teams, playoff teams...so ya, the NHL awarded a playoff team the #1 pick. Sorry about the dead-horse beating, but if a team qualifies for the post-season, then they should not be in the lottery...sorry, won't mention it anymore...until Toronto or Pittsburgh or Edmonton get the #1.

on the #4, I hope Yzerman does not take the goalie. As was said, we can throw a ton of money a a UFA G, There is always the 2nd round for a G. There is the possibility Byfield falls. Look at Zadina. We know the #1 pick, but maybe LA wants Stuztle or a D, and then same goes for Ottawa, if LA takes D then OTT could take Stutzle. I highly doubt they all stick to the consensus order of Lafrienere, Byfield, Stutzle, but then again that could happen too... I am just so sickened by the top pick result, I almost cannot even stomach talking about it. It's not even that we fell to 4th, it's the winner...ugh, ok, this time I'll stop for real. Sorry!

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7 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

so the NHL has said that all the teams playing in the 5 game play-in ARE considered post-season playing teams, playoff teams...so ya, the NHL awarded a playoff team the #1 pick. Sorry about the dead-horse beating, but if a team qualifies for the post-season, then they should not be in the lottery...sorry, won't mention it anymore...until Toronto or Pittsburgh or Edmonton get the #1.

Yeah I am still pretty sour about it. There's no way a bubble team should be picking top 3. It's even more annoying seeing teams with supposedly less than 2-3% get a top 3 pick in the last 3 drafts and this sh!t happens! I'm gonna be stewing on this for years, lol.

Edited by Wings3:16

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12 hours ago, Dabura said:

Agreed on all counts. I think I'd be ok with Askarov at 4. BPA-wise, you can make a case for him being the BPA at 4. Need-wise, well, we all know how badly we need a goalie. I doubt it happens, but who knows.

Ultimately, it's all going to come down to what Yzerman thinks. He was all-in on Seider and we didn't learn that until after he'd made the pick. Could be that he's all-in on Askarov and we won't hear a thing about it until after the pick is made and Yzerman says, "He was always our guy. I can't believe you people thought we were going to take Raymond. lmao! Have you seen our goalie depth chart?!"

I do hope we land a good UFA goalie at a good price. Lehner or Markstrom would be nice. But I don't know why any self-respecting goalie would want to play for this team. It'd probably have to be a massive overpay. Worth it? Maybe, maybe not.

The more highlights I watch of Askarov, the more I want the Wings to take him fourth no matter who is available. Kid is just unreal and still quite young. Absolute franchise goalie potential. There are rumblings that Yzerman is very open to taking him fourth if you are to believe the "insiders". Perfetti or Rossi are the "safe bets", but don't be surprised if he does take Askarov. Nothing is off the table.

As for attracting one of the top UFA goalies, the fact that playoffs aren't in the picture for awhile probably will be a consideration for guys like Lehner and Holtby. Both are in their prime, and Lehner would like to win a Cup obv. Griess or another similar caliber goalie that will split time with Bernier might be more realistic.

Edited by chaps80

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3 hours ago, Wings3:16 said:

Yeah I am still pretty sour about it. There's no way a bubble team should be picking top 3. It's even more annoying seeing teams with supposedly less than 2-3% get a top 3 pick in the last 3 drafts and this sh!t happens! I'm gonna be stewing on this for years, lol.

As a pessimist - a realist - I expected us to drop to 4th, and I can honestly say that I'm not surprised that a bubble team will have the 1st pick.

I'm gonna say Chicago will win it.

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21 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

so the NHL has said that all the teams playing in the 5 game play-in ARE considered post-season playing teams, playoff teams...so ya, the NHL awarded a playoff team the #1 pick. Sorry about the dead-horse beating, but if a team qualifies for the post-season, then they should not be in the lottery...sorry, won't mention it anymore...until Toronto or Pittsburgh or Edmonton get the #1.

Don't be sorry about complaining about this. It's straight-up bulls*** and we should all be pissed off about it and we should never let the league forget what they did.

21 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

on the #4, I hope Yzerman does not take the goalie. As was said, we can throw a ton of money a a UFA G, There is always the 2nd round for a G.

That's fair.

If Yzerman does want Askarov, I think the Rangers might be a good partner for a trade-down. As things stand right now, they own, what, 13OA and 23OA? I think? And they have a couple good goalie prospects too, right? Hmmm...

21 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

There is the possibility Byfield falls. Look at Zadina. We know the #1 pick, but maybe LA wants Stuztle or a D, and then same goes for Ottawa, if LA takes D then OTT could take Stutzle. I highly doubt they all stick to the consensus order of Lafrienere, Byfield, Stutzle, but then again that could happen too...

Anything's possible.

Personally, I'll be shocked if Byfield falls out of the top three. I don't think we can use Zadina as a precedent for him re: a possible slide. Byfield is a 6'4 playmaking goal-scoring two-way power-center with outstanding hands who skates like the wind and is very young for his draft class. He's also got two dominant CHL seasons under his belt, whereas 2018 Zadina's CHL sample size was only the one season. tl;dr Byfield is a ludicrously tantalizing package. Floor is a solid 1C. Ceiling is Fedorov.

I think it's going to be Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle. I'm sticking with what I said in the lead-up to the lotto: I think our guy is going to be one of Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, Drysdale, Raymond.

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I really don't understand how anyone would want this team to take Askarov at 4, or even trade back to take Askarov with our top pick.

I'd never waste a top pick on a goaltender, especially with so many elite forwards available. I'd be okay with a lot of different picks at 4, but if we waste our highest pick in 30 years on a goaltender, with all of those elite forwards / defenseman on the board, I'll be pissed.

Not only is goaltending a much harder position to project, where these 17/18 year old kids will be in 3-5 years, but it's also a less important position, in terms of overall impact on a game. There's a bigger gap between an average to elite forward / defensemen, than there is between an average to elite goaltender in my opinion.

Teams often win with average goaltending, as long as they have elite talent in front of them. Teams seldom win with elite goaltending, and average defense / forwards in front of them. Look at how many elite goaltenders have never won anything. Look at how many elite teams have won with average goaltending. Build from the forwards in, not the goalie out...

This team is lacking in a lot of areas, but goaltending should be addressed in the later rounds. Not 4th overall...

If Yzerman wants Askarov, he should try to move up from 32, or acquire another 1st round pick by taking on a bad contract. I don't think he should even be a consideration at 4th overall...

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I really don't understand how anyone would want this team to take Askarov at 4, or even trade back to take Askarov with our top pick.

I'd never waste a top pick on a goaltender, especially with so many elite forwards available. I'd be okay with a lot of different picks at 4, but if we waste our highest pick in 30 years on a goaltender, with all of those elite forwards / defenseman on the board, I'll be pissed.

Not only is goaltending a much harder position to project, where these 17/18 year old kids will be in 3-5 years, but it's also a less important position, in terms of overall impact on a game. There's a bigger gap between an average to elite forward / defensemen, than there is between an average to elite goaltender in my opinion.

Teams often win with average goaltending, as long as they have elite talent in front of them. Teams seldom win with elite goaltending, and average defense / forwards in front of them. Look at how many elite goaltenders have never won anything. Look at how many elite teams have won with average goaltending. Build from the forwards in, not the goalie out...

This team is lacking in a lot of areas, but goaltending should be addressed in the later rounds. Not 4th overall...

If Yzerman wants Askarov, he should try to move up from 32, or acquire another 1st round pick by taking on a bad contract. I don't think he should even be a consideration at 4th overall...

Of all the goalies that have been drafted by the Wings in two decades, two worked out as NHL starters (not the best drafting record. current young prospects we obv don't know their end potential yet).  Howard and Mrazek. Howard is 36 and coming off a huge 2 win season and is not returning. Mrazek could have still been around and been the number 1 had he been allowed to work through his issues instead of being traded for a s***ty 4th pick because the older Howard was playing better at the time and Kenny didn't wanna up the 4 mill (then brought in Bernier for 3 mill). He's doing perfectly fine in Carolina and is still young. Anyways, that ship has sailed, and we have no prospects in the pipeline even remotely ready. Askarov is no fifth round crapshoot. He's got legit star franchise goalie potential. I doubt the team makes the playoffs next season either, they will have another shot at a great forward in the early first round. UFA goalie stop gaps are fine for a couple seasons, but having someone like Askarov drafted and developing in the Wings system in the meantime would ease the long term worries.

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