The Yzerplan to Date

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

 

Blashill screwed up his development. Leaving him constantly benched in favor of useless plugs. Giving him next to no playing time when he did play. You can't expect a prospect to develop if you never play them. Maybe he should have been in GR instead, but then that falls on Holland/Yzerman.

Sure, whatever you say. I don’t care, at all, about Svechnikov and his development. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

 

Blashill screwed up his development. Leaving him constantly benched in favor of useless plugs. Giving him next to no playing time when he did play. You can't expect a prospect to develop if you never play them. Maybe he should have been in GR instead, but then that falls on Holland/Yzerman.

@krsmith17 sock account confirmed. 

[bIueadams 776]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Sure, whatever you say. I don’t care, at all, about Svechnikov and his development. 

I don't believe that about you. If we stuck a 1st round pick like Kasper on the big club roster, but then only played him 20 games, and in those games only gave him 10 minutes a night with Veleno and Fischer, you wouldn't be happy about coaching or management's choices.

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

@krsmith17 sock account confirmed. 

When did KR ever complain about a player who wasn't getting played? He moaned about Smith and Jurco, who had all the playing time in the world and just sucked for YEARS. Svech couldn't even get a half a season.

[joesuffP 1,746]

I’ll always have blind faith that Yzerman is smarter than me when building a team. Theirs no other person I would rather have as GM

[marcaractac 3,963]

Svech has never done anything to earn any ice time. He didn't score enough to make up for his limitations playing without the puck. That's been pretty constant with young players on this team for years.

[bIueadams 776]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Svech has never done anything to earn any ice time. He didn't score enough to make up for his limitations playing without the puck. That's been pretty constant with young players on this team for years.

Then he should have been down in GR developing his skills. Thats an SY screw up 

[marcaractac 3,963]

17 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Then he should have been down in GR developing his skills. Thats an SY screw up 

He sucked in GR as well outside of that one decent season early on. 

[Akakabuto 1,751]

Why are we talking about old Holland busts?

[marcaractac 3,963]

41 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Why are we talking about old Holland busts?

Because folks REALLY need to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find Yzerman L's. In reality, the only major one is Chiarot. Even then, calling it major is a stretch. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by marcaractac

[diehardredwingsfan58 123]

22 hours ago, joesuffP said:

I’ll always have blind faith that Yzerman is smarter than me when building a team. Theirs no other person I would rather have as GM

Same here.

1 hour ago, Akakabuto said:

Why are we talking about old Holland busts?

Easily, because when you've that many busts. It sets back your rebuild quite a bit. We need to hit on most of our 1st round picks. And essentially we've about 4 busts under Holland that is setting the team back. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

41 minutes ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

Same here.

Easily, because when you've that many busts. It sets back your rebuild quite a bit. We need to hit on most of our 1st round picks. And essentially we've about 4 busts under Holland that is setting the team back. 

Who? Zadina, Ras, Svech, Cholo? Mantha? Veleno?

[Akakabuto 1,751]

2 hours ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

Same here.

Easily, because when you've that many busts. It sets back your rebuild quite a bit. We need to hit on most of our 1st round picks. And essentially we've about 4 busts under Holland that is setting the team back. 

For me 2019 is year zero. This rebuild pre-Yzerman doesn’t exist. 

[bIueadams 776]

5 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Why are we talking about old Holland busts?

Something something bait something something bored

[AtlantaHotWings 992]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Who? Zadina, Ras, Svech, Cholo? Mantha? Veleno?

Well there's 6 names and 2 are still with the team so do we say the other 4 were busts and lay that at the feet of Kenny. I am on the rebuild started with in 2019 and this is year 4 train. 

[diehardredwingsfan58 123]

7 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Who? Zadina, Ras, Svech, Cholo? Mantha? Veleno?

Zadina, Svechnikov and Cholowski at least. Mantha would be considered borderline.

[bIueadams 776]

Mantha was not a bust - a big fat floater who underachieves? Sure. But not a bust.

Veleno = probably bust
Cholowski = bust
Svechnikov = bust
Zadina = bust
McIsaac = probably bust
Lindstrom = probably bust
Givani Smith = bust
Nastasiuk = bust
Frk = bust
Jurco = bust
Ouellet = bust
Sproul = bust
Sheahan = bust
Ferraro = bust
McCollum = bust
Brendan Smith = bust
Emmerton = bust
Axelsson = bust
Kindl = bust

Out good drafting ended after 2004 - which owes a lot to our abrupt downfall that was only kept afloat temporarily by Kronwall, Z, Dats, and Lids. After they were gone we had no roster and the cupboards were bare. And then Holland continued to select more busts.

In that time we hit on Helm, Abby, Matthias, Nyquist, Tatar, Jensen, Jarnkrok, Larkin, Hronek, Rasmussen, Berggren, and Mantha. So we nabbed a few depth pieces like any team would and Larkin. But the amount of 1st and 2nd round picks that got absolutely pissed away... that doesn't make up for it.

 

Before 2004 we were getting Franzen in the 3rd. Howard in the 2nd. Quincey in the 4th. Hudler in the 2nd. Fleischmann in the 2nd. Filppula in the 3rd. Kronwall in the 1st. Kopecky in the 2nd. Fischer in the 1st.

We were hitting on almost all the picks we needed to hit and then some.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

26 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Mantha was not a bust - a big fat floater who underachieves? Sure. But not a bust.

Veleno = probably bust
Cholowski = bust
Svechnikov = bust
Zadina = bust
McIsaac = probably bust
Lindstrom = probably bust
Givani Smith = bust
Nastasiuk = bust
Frk = bust
Jurco = bust
Ouellet = bust
Sproul = bust
Sheahan = bust
Ferraro = bust
McCollum = bust
Brendan Smith = bust
Emmerton = bust
Axelsson = bust
Kindl = bust

Out good drafting ended after 2004 - which owes a lot to our abrupt downfall that was only kept afloat temporarily by Kronwall, Z, Dats, and Lids. After they were gone we had no roster and the cupboards were bare. And then Holland continued to select more busts.

In that time we hit on Helm, Abby, Matthias, Nyquist, Tatar, Jensen, Jarnkrok, Larkin, Hronek, Rasmussen, Berggren, and Mantha. So we nabbed a few depth pieces like any team would and Larkin. But the amount of 1st and 2nd round picks that got absolutely pissed away... that doesn't make up for it.

 

Before 2004 we were getting Franzen in the 3rd. Howard in the 2nd. Quincey in the 4th. Hudler in the 2nd. Fleischmann in the 2nd. Filppula in the 3rd. Kronwall in the 1st. Kopecky in the 2nd. Fischer in the 1st.

We were hitting on almost all the picks we needed to hit and then some.

Yeah and now Dallas are drafting like wizards

Coincidence? 

[bIueadams 776]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yeah and now Dallas are drafting like wizards

Coincidence? 

The Detroit Brain Drain is a very real thing. You have everyone - especially Jim Lites in Dallas who literally knocked up one of the Illitch daughters before jetting to Dallas - poaching the Wings front office talent.

Hell even the Detroit loyal Yzerman got poached.

Very much also a factor.

You come up and the rest of the league will scavenge anything you have.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

Just now, bIueadams said:

The Detroit Brain Drain is a very real thing. You have everyone - especially Jim Lites in Dallas who literally knocked up one of the Illitch daughters before jetting to Dallas - poaching the Wings front office talent.

Hell even the Detroit loyal Yzerman got poached.

Very much also a factor.

You come up and the rest of the league will scavenge anything you have.

I just think Jim Nill specifically was a tough loss. Hell, he's 4 x the GM Kenny is r n

[bIueadams 776]

Just now, The 91 of Ryans said:

I just think Jim Nill specifically was a tough loss. Hell, he's 4 x the GM Kenny is r n

Jim Nill going to Dallas begins with Jim Lites. Lites was the mastermind behind Fedorov, Konstantinov, etc. Ever since he left in the late 90's early 2000's he has used his insider knowledge of the Wings to poach Nill and scouts. He's still involved with the Illitch family to this day on a personal level. Dallas in a way are our kissing cousins.

Yes Nill is good, and he probably could have gone anywhere with an available spot. But he went to Dallas because of Lites 100%.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 9/8/2023 at 6:06 PM, bIueadams said:

Jim Nill going to Dallas begins with Jim Lites. Lites was the mastermind behind Fedorov, Konstantinov, etc. Ever since he left in the late 90's early 2000's he has used his insider knowledge of the Wings to poach Nill and scouts. He's still involved with the Illitch family to this day on a personal level. Dallas in a way are our kissing cousins.

Yes Nill is good, and he probably could have gone anywhere with an available spot. But he went to Dallas because of Lites 100%.

St Louis, Dallas, and Tampa Bay.  All budfies of Detroit.

[mackel 681]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:14 PM, bIueadams said:

Mantha was not a bust - a big fat floater who underachieves? Sure. But not a bust.

Veleno = probably bust
Cholowski = bust
Svechnikov = bust
Zadina = bust
McIsaac = probably bust
Lindstrom = probably bust
Givani Smith = bust
Nastasiuk = bust
Frk = bust
Jurco = bust
Ouellet = bust
Sproul = bust
Sheahan = bust
Ferraro = bust
McCollum = bust
Brendan Smith = bust
Emmerton = bust
Axelsson = bust
Kindl = bust

Out good drafting ended after 2004 - which owes a lot to our abrupt downfall that was only kept afloat temporarily by Kronwall, Z, Dats, and Lids. After they were gone we had no roster and the cupboards were bare. And then Holland continued to select more busts.

In that time we hit on Helm, Abby, Matthias, Nyquist, Tatar, Jensen, Jarnkrok, Larkin, Hronek, Rasmussen, Berggren, and Mantha. So we nabbed a few depth pieces like any team would and Larkin. But the amount of 1st and 2nd round picks that got absolutely pissed away... that doesn't make up for it.

 

Before 2004 we were getting Franzen in the 3rd. Howard in the 2nd. Quincey in the 4th. Hudler in the 2nd. Fleischmann in the 2nd. Filppula in the 3rd. Kronwall in the 1st. Kopecky in the 2nd. Fischer in the 1st.

We were hitting on almost all the picks we needed to hit and then some.

It's nice now that everyone is recognizes what a strident few knew all along. #BustyColdZadina

[LeftWinger 4,963]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

It's nice now that everyone is recognizes what a strident few knew all along. #BustyColdZadina

We all (I'm guilty) should realize that good GM's and scouts know more than us. Holland is not a good drafting GM. Zadina fell for a reason. He was ranked 3rd, each player 3-5 taken has been better, these teams knew not to take him as he fell. Holland just thought he was getting a gift handed to him, knowing damn well the team needed a D at that spot. 

Players fall for a reason. Patrick, Wright  and even Seth Jones to a certain extent for example. In their draft year they were all talked about being the concensus choice at #1.  

Holland just isn't that smart. His drafting, trades, and UFA signings set this team back a decade.

[bIueadams 776]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

We all (I'm guilty) should realize that good GM's and scouts know more than us. Holland is not a good drafting GM. Zadina fell for a reason. He was ranked 3rd, each player 3-5 taken has been better, these teams knew not to take him as he fell. Holland just thought he was getting a gift handed to him, knowing damn well the team needed a D at that spot. 

Players fall for a reason. Patrick, Wright  and even Seth Jones to a certain extent for example. In their draft year they were all talked about being the concensus choice at #1.  

Holland just isn't that smart. His drafting, trades, and UFA signings set this team back a decade.

Holland wasnt a bad drafter. He was always pulling Franzens, Hudlers, Nyquists, Tatars, Fils, Jarnkroks, Berggrens, and so on. But his record with high firsts and 2nds is atrocious. Hes terrible at bringing a team up, but good at maintaining one.

The brain drain is also worth mentioning again. Holland was a great "Manager". When his team was great he was great. When his staff became mediocre so did he. A manager is the sum of his parts.

Yzerman seems to defy this notion. Because Yzerman seems to be a man with true vision. Hes not reacting to 50 opinions. Hes directing 50 opinions. We are truly beyond lucky to have this man. When he steps aside and gets promoted to president of illitch sports its going to be an interesting new challenge to see who takes over.  Horcoff? Draper? Lidstrom? Kronwall? I lowkey think Horcoff or Kronwall are the best choices. Draper has always been kinda a dumb f*** IMO. Lidstrom is super aloof. Horcoff on the other hand seems to be a verbeek clone. And kronner is supposedly an insane workaholic. All of Seider, Eddog, Wallinder, Johansson, and so on are going to write in their bios one day that Kronwall made them the players they are. 

[mackel 681]

On 9/10/2023 at 5:57 PM, LeftWinger said:

We all (I'm guilty) should realize that good GM's and scouts know more than us. Holland is not a good drafting GM. Zadina fell for a reason. He was ranked 3rd, each player 3-5 taken has been better, these teams knew not to take him as he fell. Holland just thought he was getting a gift handed to him, knowing damn well the team needed a D at that spot. 

Players fall for a reason. Patrick, Wright  and even Seth Jones to a certain extent for example. In their draft year they were all talked about being the concensus choice at #1.  

Holland just isn't that smart. His drafting, trades, and UFA signings set this team back a decade.

100% he drafted Zadina on hype and media draft rankings.  I believe they didn't do enough scouting on him assuming he'd be off the board.