Mid Season Grades

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

Larkin - A

Debrincat - A-

Raymond - A-

Compher - B+

Copp - C-

Perron - C+

Kane - B

Fabbri - B+

Veleno - B

Rasmussen - D-

Sprong - B

Kostin - C

Fischer - B-

Reese/Czarnik - C

 

Seider - B+

Walman - B-

Gost - D

Chiarot - F

Petry - D

Maatta - C+

Holl - C+

Esvinsson - C

 

Lyon - A-

Husso - D-

Reimer - C-

 

Lalonde - D

 

Yzerman - C-

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

@Scott R Lucidi F-

@mackel F+

@Motor City Mullets C

@Troy McClure Z +/-

@88Kaner bot score

@Akakabuto and @marcaractac Poor attendance - N/A

@kipwinger C 

@Axl Foley D (as in dikhed)

@AtlantaHotWings C

@Y19 B

@Rick D B

@TLGTrico C+

@rick zombo A+

 

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

A lot of people go to college for 7 years...

[Motor City Mullets 207]

4 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

A lot of people go to college for 7 years...

Does having 3 Associate degrees count?

[Troy McClure 346]

Ryan Graves sometimes plays RH

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

39 minutes ago, Motor City Mullets said:

Does having 3 Associate degrees count?

must.  you got a C!

[Axl Foley 228]

15 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

@Scott R Lucidi F-

@mackel F+

@Motor City Mullets C

@Troy McClure Z +/-

@88Kaner bot score

@Akakabuto and @marcaractac Poor attendance - N/A

@kipwinger C 

@Axl Foley D (as in dikhed)

@AtlantaHotWings C

@Y19 B

@Rick D B

@TLGTrico C+

@rick zombo A+

 

A D is still passing.

[Axl Foley 228]

15 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Larkin - A

Debrincat - A-

Raymond - A-

Compher - B+

Copp - C-

Perron - C+

Kane - B

Fabbri - B+

Veleno - B

Rasmussen - D-

Sprong - B

Kostin - C

Fischer - B-

Reese/Czarnik - C

 

Seider - B+

Walman - B-

Gost - D

Chiarot - F

Petry - D

Maatta - C+

Holl - C+

Esvinsson - C

 

Lyon - A-

Husso - D-

Reimer - C-

 

Lalonde - D

 

Yzerman - C-

Too low: Sprong, Fischer, Veleno, Chiarot, Ghost, Holl, Yzerman

Too high: Reese, Czarnik

Just right: everyone else

[kipwinger 8,533]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:55 AM, Scott R Lucidi said:

Larkin -  He's a workhorse, no complaints with his game at all.

Debrincat - Gets himself into trouble when he tries to be cute, which is often now that Kane's around

Raymond - Just needs time and consistency

Compher - Great pickup, but his injury is still lingering

Copp - Complete non-factor most nights, total drain on the cap

Perron - Love his attitude and fight, but he shouldn't sniff the top six at 5on5

Kane - Been fun to watch but can't wait till he's gone. Not a fit with our style of play

Fabbri - Excellent secondary scorer that shouldn't play higher than the 3rd line

Veleno - More or less what I expected from him this season, but he looks better when he plays fast

Rasmussen - Not as much offense as anticipated, but excels on defense with the team's hardest usage 

Sprong - Love how he plays but needs to hit the net more

Kostin - Stay in the f*cking lineup please

Fischer - Another hard-minutes guy that hustles. Love him on the 4th line.

Reese/Czarnik - Admirable in their call ups but clearly not NHL caliber.

 

Seider - Inconsistent but still clearly a top end talent despite playing REALLY hard minutes

Walman - Workshorse, no complaints about his game at all

Gost - Lost his mojo after a strong start to the season,

Chiarot - Love his attitude and play style, not his fault that he's asked to do things he can't.

Petry - Would be fine as a 7th defenseman, but alas, we aren't that good.

Maatta - Not really sure

Holl - C+

Esvinsson - C

 

Lyon - A-

Husso - D-

Reimer - C-

 

Lalonde - D

 

Yzerman - C-

 

I don't really understand the Rasmussen grade. He plays amongst the hardest minutes on the team, is a key part of one of the top PK units in the NHL (something that's actively winning games for us), can be trusted late in games, has more blocked shots than any other forward on the team, is fourth on the team in hits, and has as many goals as Compher and Perron (one fewer than Sprong).

I get that ideally he'd look like he did last season (before blowing out his knee) but this is a useful player, eating hard minutes, and contributing to wins.

I'd give him a "B" for playing his role well but regressing a bit offensively.

[Axl Foley 228]

I think it's mostly because we thought this was going to be a "breakout" year for him and he has mostly been blah.

[kipwinger 8,533]

21 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

I think it's mostly because we thought this was going to be a "breakout" year for him and he has mostly been blah.

I agree that we hoped for a breakout (I sure did), but in hindsight I don't think we considered the extent to which his knee injury affected his offseason prep. But I don't agree that he's been "blah". The only thing he's not doing for the team right now is scoring at a top six level, and even then he's on track to score nearly 20 goals as a bottom six winger, defensive specialist, and penalty killer.

IMO Rasmussen is the victim of the age old false perception by fans that a player's value is determined by scoring more than anything else. A guy who scores 60 points and does nothing else well IS NOT worth more to your team than a guy that scores 45-50 points but wins faceoffs, plays on special teams, and can be trusted defensively.

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

23 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I agree that we hoped for a breakout (I sure did), but in hindsight I don't think we considered the extent to which his knee injury affected his offseason prep. But I don't agree that he's been "blah". The only thing he's not doing for the team right now is scoring at a top six level, and even then he's on track to score nearly 20 goals as a bottom six winger, defensive specialist, and penalty killer.

IMO Rasmussen is the victim of the age old false perception by fans that a player's value is determined by scoring more than anything else. A guy who scores 60 points and does nothing else well IS NOT worth more to your team than a guy that scores 45-50 points but wins faceoffs, plays on special teams, and can be trusted defensively.

My eyeball test is telling me that the opponents are getting over on us when he's on the ice.  And Im conflicted as to whether or not thats because he's not as good as he needs to be or if it's because Lalonde is using him as a Dzone draw specialist.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/rasmumi01.html

62% D zone draws is going to lead to a lower corsi for, but 39% is atrocious.  

Same applies to Chiarot:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/chiarbe01.html

Im a big +/- and possession metrics guy, so I may be jumping the gun on Ras a bit early.  But Chiarot stinks.  He's not getting started in the Dzone by choice.  We're having to stop play in our Dzone when he's on the ice.  So Ras gets a pass, but Chiarot needs to go.

[kipwinger 8,533]

14 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

My eyeball test is telling me that the opponents are getting over on us when he's on the ice.  And Im conflicted as to whether or not thats because he's not as good as he needs to be or if it's because Lalonde is using him as a Dzone draw specialist.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/rasmumi01.html

62% D zone draws is going to lead to a lower corsi for, but 39% is atrocious.  

Same applies to Chiarot:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/chiarbe01.html

Im a big +/- and possession metrics guy, so I may be jumping the gun on Ras a bit early.  But Chiarot stinks.  He's not getting started in the Dzone by choice.  We're having to stop play in our Dzone when he's on the ice.  So Ras gets a pass, but Chiarot needs to go.

Almost all of Rasmussen's shifts start in the defensive zone. Anybody with that usage (Luke Glendening?) will have s***ty possession numbers. Conversely guys who start in the ozone all have better than anticipated possession stats. This is why Rasmussen's numbers suck and Gostisbehere's (for example) are good.

"Hey Ras, you're up again. Hop out there for this defensive zone draw against Connor McDavid, and would it be too much to ask you to win possession against the best line in hockey, skate the puck 200 ft. down the ice and get a shot on goal? It's help your possession stats a ton."

Edited January 13 by kipwinger

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Almost all of Rasmussen's shifts start in the defensive zone. Anybody with that usage (Luke Glendening?) will have s***ty possession numbers. Conversely guys who start in the ozone all have better than anticipated possession stats. This is why Rasmussen's numbers suck and Gostisbehere's (for example) are good.

"Hey Ras, you're up again. Hop out there for this defensive zone draw against Connor McDavid, and would it be too much to ask you to win possession against the best line in hockey, skate the puck 200 ft. down the ice and get a shot on goal? It's help your possession stats a ton."

Yup.  And Ras is a plus 8 despite this useage, so Im reserving FULL season judgement until playoffs.  But he just hasnt been that guy we saw for 20 games last year.  He was a monster during that stretch.  Every shift was meaningful.  This year, he's chasing the puck a lot instead of wiping opponents out and letting the puck go to a teammate.  Hopefully he can find that difference maker style game again in the 2nd half.  We need it.

 

Are we both in agreement the Chiarot sucks?

[kipwinger 8,533]

1 hour ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Yup.  And Ras is a plus 8 despite this useage, so Im reserving FULL season judgement until playoffs.  But he just hasnt been that guy we saw for 20 games last year.  He was a monster during that stretch.  Every shift was meaningful.  This year, he's chasing the puck a lot instead of wiping opponents out and letting the puck go to a teammate.  Hopefully he can find that difference maker style game again in the 2nd half.  We need it.

 

Are we both in agreement the Chiarot sucks?

I don't think Chiarot sucks. I think he's just a bigger, stronger, meaner version of Gostisbehere. It's not Chiarot's fault that Lalonde seems to think he's a decent defender and asks him to try and shut down top talent. If he were a 3rd pair rover/puck mover with good 5on5 scoring (like he already has) I'd love him. Instead they seem to think he's Jake Walman and can defend well too. Put him on the 3rd line with someone who defends well and can skate (Albert Johansson?) and watch him thrive. Just don't play him in the defensive zone.

Edited January 13 by kipwinger

[88Kaner 33]

On 1/12/2024 at 9:12 AM, The 91 of Ryans said:

@Scott R Lucidi F-

@mackel F+

@Motor City Mullets C

@Troy McClure Z +/-

@88Kaner bot score

@Akakabuto and @marcaractac Poor attendance - N/A

@kipwinger C 

@Axl Foley D (as in dikhed)

@AtlantaHotWings C

@Y19 B

@Rick D B

@TLGTrico C+

@rick zombo A+

 

You cold hearted bastard I'm clearly an Ai..

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I don't think Chiarot sucks. I think he's just a bigger, stronger, meaner version of Gostisbehere. It's not Chiarot's fault that Lalonde seems to think he's a decent defender and asks him to try and shut down top talent. If he were a 3rd pair rover/puck mover with good 5on5 scoring (like he already has) I'd love him. Instead they seem to think he's Jake Walman and can defend well too. Put him on the 3rd line with someone who defends well and can skate (Albert Johansson?) and watch him thrive. Just don't play him in the defensive zone.

a defender who isnt asked to defend?  come on

[Axl Foley 228]

10 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I agree that we hoped for a breakout (I sure did), but in hindsight I don't think we considered the extent to which his knee injury affected his offseason prep. But I don't agree that he's been "blah". The only thing he's not doing for the team right now is scoring at a top six level, and even then he's on track to score nearly 20 goals as a bottom six winger, defensive specialist, and penalty killer.

IMO Rasmussen is the victim of the age old false perception by fans that a player's value is determined by scoring more than anything else. A guy who scores 60 points and does nothing else well IS NOT worth more to your team than a guy that scores 45-50 points but wins faceoffs, plays on special teams, and can be trusted defensively.

9th Overall pick.

[kipwinger 8,533]

9 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

9th Overall pick.

Ken Holland drafting the dude too high 7 years ago affects his mid-season grade in 2024 how? 

[Axl Foley 228]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Ken Holland drafting the dude too high 7 years ago affects his mid-season grade in 2024 how? 

He was a 1st round pick, 9th or later. I want more.

[kipwinger 8,533]

59 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

He was a 1st round pick, 9th or later. I want more.

Sure. I want Seider to score 60 points this season and Veleno to score 20 goals too. But I wouldn't give either of them a "D-" grade just because those things are unlikely. I'd like to see more offensive out of Rasmussen too, but the rest of his game is impactful enough that I'd argue the OP's grade is too low.

 

17 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

a defender who isnt asked to defend?  come on

This is fair, but not really what I meant. I guess I'm saying that most teams can afford to have one guy on the defense that's not the best defender in the world but is good at other things. Coaches tend to just shelter these guys on the 3rd pair. I wouldn't mind if that guy was Chiarot in Detroit. Trouble is that we've got Gostisbehere already occupying that space, so Chiarot really can't be as sheltered as he needs to be to mitigate his obvious defensive issues.

Edited January 14 by kipwinger

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

36 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Sure. I want Seider to score 60 points this season and Veleno to score 20 goals too. But I wouldn't give either of them a "D-" grade just because those things are unlikely. I'd like to see more offensive out of Rasmussen too, but the rest of his game is impactful enough that I'd argue the OP's grade is too low.

 

This is fair, but not really what I meant. I guess I'm saying that most teams can afford to have one guy on the defense that's not the best defender in the world but is good at other things. Coaches tend to just shelter these guys on the 3rd pair. I wouldn't mind if that guy was Chiarot in Detroit. Trouble is that we've got Gostisbehere already occupying that space, so Chiarot really can't be as sheltered as he needs to be to mitigate his obvious defensive issues.

The only thing completely screwing up your argument is that the 6th defenseman that really isnt good at defense but has some other quality that's occasionally helpful comes at a price tag of 1 million.  Not 4.75.  Thats my beef.  Chiarot is getting paid to play EFFECTIVE DEFENSE from 1B to 2B.  And he's failing miserably at playing effective defense.  2.5 more years = yuck.

[kipwinger 8,533]

4 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

The only thing completely screwing up your argument is that the 6th defenseman that really isnt good at defense but has some other quality that's occasionally helpful comes at a price tag of 1 million.  Not 4.75.  Thats my beef.  Chiarot is getting paid to play EFFECTIVE DEFENSE from 1B to 2B.  And he's failing miserably at playing effective defense.  2.5 more years = yuck.

I agree he makes too much money.

[Axl Foley 228]

Chiarot was not signed to be 3rd pair. But like so many overpaid Wings defensemen of years past, here we are again. 3rd pair D being paid like a 2nd pair.

Edited January 15 by Axl Foley

[Scott R Lucidi 463]

Changing my grade on Holl to a B.  Im really starting to think that this guy is just a solid stay at home Dman and would pair FANTASTICALLY with Simon Edvinsson.  He is only noticeable in a bad way when he gets paired with Gost against a good team.  The rest of the time, he is unnoticeable.  And Holl neing unnoticeable means he's doing well.  Chia, Petry, and Gost are not good for our team in my opinion.  But Holl and Maatta have played up to expectation.