Who do you root for tonight?

[kipwinger 8,526]

2 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

Id still bet on tampa and tronna to run us over in the playoffs. Just cause we have no expierence in the post season.

Sure Compher, Chiarot, Holl, and Kane do, but the rest of the team, including our key players, have very little or none at all.

If we really wanna aim for a sucessfull run maybe we should target some expierenced players. Who out there has that?

Never a bad idea to bet on Toronto to win in the playoffs. That's easy money.

[Troy McClure 346]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Never a bad idea to bet on Toronto to win in the playoffs. That's easy money.

I don’t have any words and I know you don’t want to hear them. I understand your anger, your frustration, your sadness. Everything you’re feeling – I get it. This isn’t the playoff comment we imagined, and certainly not the one we wanted. Thank you for being there the entire way.

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

If we call up Edvinsson and replace Petry with him, then play the following D pairs in this order:

Walman-Chiarot

Edvinsson-Holl

Maatta-Gost

we will have a great shot at making the playoffs.  The more we introduce Chiarot and Petry into games against playoff calibur teams (like tonight), the greater chance we miss.  Our forward group is great.  Our D group could be solid as well.  Bit our GM and coach have to ice our best guys.

[kipwinger 8,526]

2 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

If we call up Edvinsson and replace Petry with him, then play the following D pairs in this order:

Walman-Chiarot

Edvinsson-Holl

Maatta-Gost

we will have a great shot at making the playoffs.  The more we introduce Chiarot and Petry into games against playoff calibur teams (like tonight), the greater chance we miss.  Our forward group is great.  Our D group could be solid as well.  Bit our GM and coach have to ice our best guys.

You mean a "greater" shot at making the playoffs right? Because we already have a great shot at making the playoffs by doing the exact opposite of what you're proposing here.

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

15 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You mean a "greater" shot at making the playoffs right? Because we already have a great shot at making the playoffs by doing the exact opposite of what you're proposing here.

I dont feel that way.  Schedule starting tonight gets pretty rough.  Teams will be playing more aggressive.  We lose Compher, Larkin, or Ras AND have our 35% corsi for D specialist pair still out there, we are in for some rough sledding.  Petry - Chiarot jeopardizes the entire season, tbh.

[kipwinger 8,526]

7 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I dont feel that way.  Schedule starting tonight gets pretty rough.  Teams will be playing more aggressive.  We lose Compher, Larkin, or Ras AND have our 35% corsi for D specialist pair still out there, we are in for some rough sledding.  Petry - Chiarot jeopardizes the entire season, tbh.

EVERY team would fall off a cliff if they lost their top two centers, best and defensive forward. It's a truism. You might as well be saying "if we have to play with 5 fowards for the rest of the season we're doomed". Yeah, no s***.

Edited February 22 by kipwinger

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 59]

31 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

If we call up Edvinsson and replace Petry with him, then play the following D pairs in this order:

Walman-Chiarot

Edvinsson-Holl

Maatta-Gost

So is Seider a healthy scratch?

[Dabura 12,207]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

 

If you go back and look at Tampa's possession metrics during their peak you'll notice they're very "Detroit-like". I don't think that's accidental. I don't really think Yzerman cares about shots, and I know Lalonde doesn't. I think they operate under the assumption that a professional caliber goalie will stop shots that he sees. As such, the job of your defensemen is to be big enough to win battles and clear the crease, and skate well enough to get the puck out of our zone. Now look at our defensemen.

The other thing I'd say is that every team in the conference has serious flaws, except maybe Florida or the Rangers. If that's the standard then every team is just as good/bad as we are. But you can't escape the unavoidable fact that when we play top end teams around the league we win far more often than we lose. I agree that it only takes "a bad run of games" to fall out of contention, I just don't think we're any more likely than other teams to experience that. Toronto is currently riding high on the back of a goalie that they waived a few month ago. Is that more stable than what we've got happening? Boston has been so bad since December that they lost their stranglehold on the division and Florida has overtaken them for 1st.

I agree we have flaws, so does every team. But I think we're much more critical of our own flaws, and we downplay our own strengths more than we should.

I actually don't care all that much about shots in and of themselves (which is why I hate the fancy stats arguments). It's more that we play very loosely on the defensive side of the puck. That's OK if you've got great goaltending and great scoring depth, which we do. I just hope those things hold up. Because they have to.

As for everyone having flaws, I agree. I said so in my post. (Well, OK, I said bubble teams. But yeah.) Tronna is hugely flawed. But they know how to get that 2nd/3rd seed. Matthews scoring 100 goals a night helps.

tl;dr We're on the same page, but I get why some people - even (or maybe especially) Wings fans - would have reservations re: how good we really are.

Edited February 22 by Dabura

[kipwinger 8,526]

11 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I actually don't care all that much about shots in and of themselves (which is why I hate the fancy stats arguments). It's more that we play very loosely on the defensive side of the puck. That's OK if you've got great goaltending and great scoring depth, which we do. I just hope those things hold up. Because they have to.

As for everyone having flaws, I agree. I said so in my post. (Well, OK, I said bubble teams. But yeah.) Tronna is hugely flawed. But they know how to get that 2nd/3rd seed. Matthews scoring 100 goals a night helps.

tl;dr We're on the same page, but I get why some people - even (or maybe especially) Wings fans - would have reservations re: how good we really are.

For the most part I agree.

On a side note, I can't wait to see Matthews goal scoring fall off a cliff yet again when he gets to the playoffs and he's got someone like Matthew Tkachuk running him through the boards every shift. Never ceases to amaze me how superstars like Matthews and McDavid can't find their offense the minute the refs let people check them tightly.

[Akakabuto 1,751]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

On a side note, I can't wait to see Matthews goal scoring fall off a cliff yet again when he gets to the playoffs and he's got someone like Matthew Tkachuk running him through the boards every shift. Never ceases to amaze me how superstars like Matthews and McDavid can't find their offense the minute the refs let people check them tightly.

They’re both soulless players. 

[kipwinger 8,526]

Just now, Akakabuto said:

They’re both soulless players. 

Don't get me started. Ever notice how MacKinnon and Draisaitl get appreciably better in the playoffs and Mathews and McDavid don't? I wonder why the Sportsnet folks never remember to add that context in whenever they talk about McDavid/Matthews being the top centers in the league?

[Troy McClure 346]

This is McDavids year. Hollands finally given him the proper support and hes gone full silverback beast mode. 

[kipwinger 8,526]

Just now, Troy McClure said:

This is McDavids year. Hollands finally given him the proper support and hes gone full silverback beast mode. 

Is he gonna play goalie too?

[Troy McClure 346]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Is he gonna play goalie too?

The Holland plan will likely address this 

[kipwinger 8,526]

3 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

The Holland plan will likely address this 

As of today they'd have to play Vegas in the first round. I'm not confident they beat Vegas. Nothing is different about Edmonton. They're the same team with the same plan they've always had. What's different from last season? They're starting to remind me of the prime San Jose Sharks. They just keep running back Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, and Couture hoping for a different outcome.

One day, when McDavid is 50 years old and out of the league, everyone will realize he was always Pavel Bure and never Wayne Gretzky.

[Troy McClure 346]

17 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

As of today they'd have to play Vegas in the first round. I'm not confident they beat Vegas. Nothing is different about Edmonton. They're the same team with the same plan they've always had. What's different from last season? They're starting to remind me of the prime San Jose Sharks. They just keep running back Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, and Couture hoping for a different outcome.

One day, when McDavid is 50 years old and out of the league, everyone will realize he was always Pavel Bure and never Wayne Gretzky.

Since they signed Perry the whole team has taken it into next gear, including Connor

[kipwinger 8,526]

1 minute ago, Troy McClure said:

Since they signed Perry the whole team has taken it into next gear, including Connor

That clearly merits some extra attention from the NHL's anti-doping folks. It's not clear that Perry wasn't abusing amphetamines. McDavid certainly LOOKS like he is.

 

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

1 hour ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

So is Seider a healthy scratch?

OOPS!!!!

[Scott R Lucidi 454]

33 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

As of today they'd have to play Vegas in the first round. I'm not confident they beat Vegas. Nothing is different about Edmonton. They're the same team with the same plan they've always had. What's different from last season? They're starting to remind me of the prime San Jose Sharks. They just keep running back Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, and Couture hoping for a different outcome.

One day, when McDavid is 50 years old and out of the league, everyone will realize he was always Pavel Bure and never Wayne Gretzky.

McDavid is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Gretzky.  Gretzky is the Cadillac DeVille of Hockey.  McDavid is a Lamborghini Hurican.  It's like comparing an NES system to playstation 5.  THAT different.

[Troy McClure 346]

11 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

McDavid is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Gretzky.  Gretzky is the Cadillac DeVille of Hockey.  McDavid is a Lamborghini Hurican.  It's like comparing an NES system to playstation 5.  THAT different.

Easily the best player to ever lace em ep. And hes only getting better with age. Grets exploited an era, got his ass traded, and fell off a cliff early.

[kipwinger 8,526]

41 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

Easily the best player to ever lace em ep. And hes only getting better with age. Grets exploited an era, got his ass traded, and fell off a cliff early.

Saying McDavid is the "best" player is like saying Chara had the "best" shot. McDavid scores a bunch, there's no debate about that. But the point of all competitive sports is to win more, not score more. The history of the league is flush with players who sacrificed scoring for winning. If McDavid doesn't start getting with the program he's going to end up being the Dan Marino of the NHL.

[Troy McClure 346]

11 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Saying McDavid is the "best" player is like saying Chara had the "best" shot. McDavid scores a bunch, there's no debate about that. But the point of all competitive sports is to win more, not score more. The history of the league is flush with players who sacrificed scoring for winning. If McDavid doesn't start getting with the program he's going to end up being the Dan Marino of the NHL.

Grets was on a powerhouse team for all his cups, and never won again after leaving. Maybe he should have "got with the program". But nah, he's "the great one".

McD has been on poop ass oily teams, but Holland has now at least made them competitive, and Connor looks determined to bring it home this year.

Edited February 22 by Troy McClure

[kipwinger 8,526]

3 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

Grets was on a powerhouse team for all his cups, and never won again after leaving. Maybe he should have "got with the program". But nah, he's "the great one".

McD has been on poop ass oily teams, but Holland has now at least made them competitive, and Connor looks determined to bring it home this year.

This is silly. You're telling me that McDavid is the best ever because he scores a lot (but doesn't win) on mediocre teams?

He has no records, he has no championships. He just scores. Cool.

Fine, I'll play along. Forget Edmonton and forget winning. Gretzky's five best seasons with Los Angeles were SO MUCH better than McDavid's five best with Edmonton. If scoring on bad teams makes you the best player ever then Gretzky IS STILL better than McDavid by your own metric.

The only thing McDavid does better than Gretzky is skate. He's a better athlete, I'll give you that. In every other conceivable metric he's less accomplished.

[Troy McClure 346]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

This is silly. You're telling me that McDavid is the best ever because he scores a lot (but doesn't win) on mediocre teams?

He has no records, he has no championships. He just scores. Cool.

Fine, I'll play along. Forget Edmonton and forget winning. Gretzky's five best seasons with Los Angeles were SO MUCH better than McDavid's five best with Edmonton. If scoring on bad teams makes you the best player ever then Gretzky IS STILL better than McDavid by your own metric.

The only thing McDavid does better than Gretzky is skate. He's a better athlete, I'll give you that. In every other conceivable metric he's less accomplished.

Gretsky exploited an era and was trash without his supporting cast

/thread

[kipwinger 8,526]

23 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

Gretsky exploited an era and was trash without his supporting cast

/thread

Gretzky played across multiple eras with multiple "supporting casts". In 1990-91 he scored 163 points (ten better than McDavid's best) at age 30. The next best player on the team was Luc Robitaille, a one-way winger who's career numbers (even at that age) were comparably worse than Draisaitl's. During these two seasons (McDavid's best and Gretzy's best with LA), goals per game were higher in 90-91 but so where save percentages.

So if we exclude ALL of Gretzky's best seasons he was still better, for a worse team, in a comparable era at age 30 than McDavid has been in the very best of his prime years.

 

Edited February 22 by kipwinger