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Member Since 18 Dec 2003
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 06:17 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Samuelsson signs new contract....... with Djurgarden.

Yesterday, 04:21 AM

Holland's the idiot for bringing him back when he did. You can't really blame Sammy for signing. It was frustrating and I absolutely couldn't stand that we had him the last two years given the circumstances, but I'll be damned if I throw his whole career under the bus because Holland can't find a way to make good signings anymore. He had some great moments for us during that first stint and it truly is a shame the memory is going to be sullied for many because Holland was dumb enough to bring him back when he was clearly washed up. He always had a way about him that made him a bit frustrating, but some of those huge playoff goals more than made up for it.

In Topic: Tatar Signs 3 Year Deal $2.75 mill AAV

28 July 2014 - 07:47 PM

Whether people love the money angle of the deal or not, at least we can say that the guy actually did something to earn his deal. I like it personally, especially considering we really haven't been spending to the cap the last few years. We didn't do as well as we perhaps could've by Tatar the last year or so, and giving him a deal like this makes up for it a bit without it truly being any sort of overpayment. 

In Topic: Babcock Interview on 105.1 this morning

19 July 2014 - 02:57 PM

Did anyone really expect him to drop the hammer too much? He said about as much as he reasonably could. You're never going to get the full story in an interview.

In Topic: Holland Wiki page edited

14 July 2014 - 09:01 PM

Being objective would be looking at the entire situation.  Suter and Parise wanted to play in Minnesota.  They have ties to the area.  Same with Vanek.  Boyle has family in New York and requested to play there for less since the Rangers were against the cap.  Players will do what it takes to go somewhere they want to go.  When Dekeyser chose to come to Detroit, and the contracts were the same no matter where he went, did you give credit to Holland for this?


Absolutely. I don't disagree with you on the points you're making, but they don't have much to do with the point I was making.


Too many people go on and on about how lucky we are to have Holland as a GM because he doesn't sign these guys to big deals, in the process criticizing the other teams for the deals that are made. But in reality, Holland is chasing these guys and oftentimes throwing out the same money if not more. The only reason he's not signing them is because he's getting rejected. It doesn't really matter why he was rejected given the point that they are making. You can't give the guy credit for not making big deals when he's trying hard to make big deals and is just getting rejected. That is, simply put, an absurd argument.


That said, again, I agree with what you're saying, and I probably hold a lot less against Holland than some, as I never have gotten worked up about any of those deals you mentioned, because there were other factors involved. I'm much less nitpicky about the individual deals and much more concerned with the overall pattern we've seen for five years now. He can't seem to strike a balance in the way he pursues guys. He goes for the big players, who realistically probably are too much money, and year after year, we're rejected for one reason or another and are then too late to target perhaps more accessible mid-level talent. I still am nitpicky and bitter about him letting Hossa go, and like most at this point, I think many of the deals he makes for longtime Wings or former Wings are just abysmal and utterly and completely lacking in good sense at times.


But at the end of the day, I really don't think Holland is a bad GM so much as he's just lost the ability to be an effective GM here. We're in a transition period whether we like it or not at this point, and Holland seems to lack the ability to build a team for a new direction. He brings in and keeps signing old parts that don't work, all the while holding back some of our younger players from moving up when they clearly should be in the NHL at this point. The last couple years in particular, you look at the team that ultimately got us to the playoffs, and it wasn't the team that Holland envisioned at the start of the season. Holland's vision was failing early on, then the injuries hit, thankfully almost in some cases, and we've got a deep stable in Grand Rapids that has helped us at least in the regular season. 


He talks about the importance of the draft and the youth, but holds the youth back and trades draft picks at odd times for odd people and doesn't trade them at other times when it seemingly makes more sense. He keeps chasing people that at this point we can pretty much assume are unattainable. He keeps signing older players that can't crack the lineup or stay healthy. There's just no sort of "good" consistency outside of the draft, and you can't just build a team with the draft. You have to be able to sign and trade for outside talent to plug holes when needed. And truthfully, I'd be a lot more content with Holland not landing some of the guys he's chased if not for the countless utterly terrible reactionary signings, and again, it's a five year pattern now. 


But more than anything, I just don't think Holland's playing to his strengths anymore. I think he stumbled pretty hard when he started having to really deal with the cap, and he's never really recovered, and he's never stopped to focus on what's worked for him and what hasn't.


Things Holland is exceptionally good at:


-Some don't want to give Holland as much credit for drafting, but no matter who deserves the most credit, while he's been GM, we've drafted ridiculously well, and we continue to draft well. This is great, but in the cap era, we need to get these guys into the NHL quicker and taking advantage not just of their youth and energy, but their cheaper RFA contracts


-Finding younger UFAs who had promising starts or a fair amount of skill but have since struggled in the NHL, signing them cheap, and plugging them into a system in which they get a fresh start and an opportunity to grow. When Holland chases guys in the $1-2 million range, he's proven that he's got a knack for getting a lot of bang for his buck, and those guys tend to become very loyal to our team.


-I think Holland knows goalies well, and I think he's generally pretty good about finding cheaper guys that give the team a chance to win, and guys that are good in the room, which is no easy feat given how crazy some goalies are. Other than 2002 with Hasek and the team that was almost certainly bound to win a Cup, he's not done so well with higher end goalies. I think it was a flash move that's surely hard to pass up at the time, but it started the Wings down a road that brought a fair amount of drama over the following five years. And while I tend to think/hope Howard bounces back, his first year with big money was pretty terrible all things considered. And while he's getting pad bigger money, I still think of him as more of a mid-level guy who's capable of getting the job done if not being great.


What do these three things have in common?


They all bring players to the team that are cheap, but offer a lot of bang for the buck.


What awesome talents to have in the cap era!


But he's seemingly turned his back on it. 


There's just way too many bad signings, and way too many kids getting way too "overripe" in Grand Rapids. And clearly, at least one of them was frustrated about it, and I'm sure he's not the only one. And seriously, when you're not as strong of a team as you were and you're irritating the talent you're developing, what's going to keep them here when they become UFAs? Why wouldn't they bolt for money and/or the chance to play for a better team? That's something else we're likely going to be dealing with sooner rather than later, and it's most likely going to sting a lot worse than not signing whatever flavor of the week free agent is available. 


I just don't trust that the guy has the right vision or the stomach to build a Red Wings team in the cap era. Maybe he's just been at it too long, maybe he's too close, maybe his loyalty has gotten the better of him. It doesn't matter. The reasons don't change the problems. We can't make guys sign here that don't want to sign here, but we don't have to sign nearly as much crap as we do, and we don't need to clog up the pathway between the AHL and the NHL as much as we do. You'd think after five years Holland would have woken up a bit more about some of the changes that need to be made, and would stop giving out bad contracts for the sake of giving out a contract when you didn't land the guy you wanted.


And ultimately, if Holland had a better idea of what to do with what he does have control over, where he gets to make a choice, we'd likely be in a lot better shape right now in terms of convincing outside players to make the choice to play for us.


But at this point, I think he's just too far into the downward spiral to pull it up. That's why we need a change more than anything.

In Topic: Red Wings Target Mike Green

14 July 2014 - 12:19 PM

Targeting Green, Face to Face, Kick Tires, We Like Our Team...I agree with all of you, if Holland does acquire Green, it will be at a ridiculous price paid.  Too much, I think, for any of us to like.  I do like the fact that there is attempts to get a player to help this team, but after this disastrous off season, Green would just walk anyway.  Why would he want to play here?  He could take a lot less (or not be lowballed by Holland) to go to a team that has a better chance to win.  Holland WILL lowball him next summer, Green WILL sign with a different team for cheaper or a bit higher because they are a better team.  Unfortunately for Holland the UFA Extravaganza is more than over, so he needs to go back to acquiring the players via trade...and that means draft picks and players.  You once traded one of your best playoff performers (Kozlov) for a gaping hole need (Hasek.)  Make the move, up the ante a bit.  Offer a NHL player in place of that top prospect.  Helm, Franzen, Ericsson, Smith, Andersson...do not overpay, but you can sweeten the deal with a NHL regular rather than a top prospect.


A goalie a few years removed from a Cup victory playing behind the Hall of Fame roster is a gaping hole need? I think not. Was it a crazy opportunity to get a legendary goalie? Sure. I'm not taking anything away from Hasek, but Osgood would've won that Cup in 2002 for us. 


I admit that I was excited about the Hasek move initially like most, despite what it meant for Osgood and Kozlov, but I was never convinced we needed to do it. The guy was great, no doubt, and I have a lot of respect for the way he carried himself after getting pulled in 2008. But again, I just don't think it was a move that needed to be made, and I think it was short-sighted to move Kozlov for the very reason you mentioned. And the drama that Hasek brought into the organization as time went on did not do us any favors at all. 


Osgood is not a legendary individual goalie like Hasek, but he's always been underrated, and he definitely proved more than a few times that he knows how to get the job done in the playoffs. He had off post-seasons, but so does every goalie. No goalie is lights out every year, and the reality of the matter is that more often than not, Osgood wasn't the reason the Wings were folding in the playoffs. Had we stuck with Osgood in 2002, I think we still win that Cup, and moving forward, we have a team that is ultimately more stable in the goaltending department. Skip the whole Cujo/Hasek drama, skip Manny Legace deluding himself into believing he's a legit starter and his playoff implosions, stick with the guy who started and finished a Red Wing, brought us two Cups, and came within one game of bringing us a third despite a depleted roster. And hell, maybe with a little less goalie drama in the years that followed 2002 when we still had a solid team, we might've gotten close or even won another.


Again, I don't mean to take anything away from Hasek's status as one of the all-time great goalies, but I don't think we needed him, and I think we paid a much higher price for making that move than it was worth in the long run.