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Well, Burke's model worked really well for Toronto................

Yeah an enforcer would have pounded that rut right out of the ice and Mantha would be fine. You can always count on an enforcer to make sure the ice is at its highest quality.

You don’t say?

Just like you and DeGraa are the next Bob MacKenzie and Pierre LeBrun

Welcome to LGW, where everything is blown way out of proportion!...

We are absolutely a playoff-caliber team with Datsyuk and Zetterberg still around. Even with age and injuries, those two guys are still are remarkable players, and even in their absence last year due to injury, I almost feel as if it's reasonable to say that the hole they left was so large that it had much to do with many of the younger guys rising up and playing above a level that one would typically expect of them. When you still have a core of Dats and Z, you should be making the playoffs. I've said it for years, and I'm still saying it now, even in light of last season. But... We are not contenders, and despite what many like to say about how anything is possible if you just get in, it's simply not something substantial enough to be able to bank on. I'm not saying it's entirely untrue, but there is more of a divide between the contenders and some of the teams that squeak in than people realize. And oftentimes, some of the 7th-8th seeds that squeak in and go the distance were better teams than their regular season records showed, and they proved that in the playoffs. We haven't come close to proving that, and one could say last season, quite the opposite was proven. Many Detroit fans were deluded by how close we came to beating Chicago a couple years back. The reality of that series was Chicago wasn't even close to being on their game and their stars weren't rising up to the playoff challenge as the series started. We took advantage of it early on, and then Chicago came back against significant odds and proved once again why they've won two Cups in the last five years. We certainly didn't make it easy for them, even in the final three games, but they found a way to crawl out of the hole and win, and they went on to win the Cup. Last year, Boston manhandled us and proved that our kids weren't ready to answer the playoff bell. We just looked weaker and weaker as that series went on. Are we going to be a better team this year? Maybe our kids will improve, or maybe they'll still need more time to be ready. Dats and Z might be healthier, but any way you shake it, they're getting older, so it's tough to say how much of an impact they'll have on the scoresheet. Our defense isn't likely to be any better unless a kid comes up and overachieves. And while my money is on Howard bouncing back strong, he can't do it alone. I think we'll squeak into the playoffs, but we're not real close to being able to contend for the Cup right now. We won't be until something more dramatic happens to improve the defense in particular, and until our kids mature to a point where they aren't shutdown in the playoffs, or perhaps in general when having to play a lesser role on a less-injured team. That said though, I don't think that's why Babcock would leave. I do think he enjoys working with the kids, and I don't think money is going to be an issue that affects the decision. I could see him wanting to move on for the sake of new challenges and experiences, and as much as I'd hate to see it, from his perspective, I could understand why he might want to go to a team like Pittsburgh. It's an opportunity that you aren't going to get very often. I don't know if he'd actually do it, and I don't know that he wants to leave, but I do think he's likely more frustrated with the way this team's been run than he's let on lately, and I think he is likely as tired of getting no help from the GM as any of us. He's made enough comments suggesting so in the press to infer at the very least that he isn't thrilled by all that hasn't happened in the last 4-5 years. I'm not saying it's an extreme situation, but I have no doubt that it's something that bothers him because he's been frustrated enough to say so numerous times. You add everything up, and I could see Babcock going to another team after this season and I could understand why. I hope it doesn't come to that because I think he's a great coach, but it'd be hard to fault him.

Dude still has a chance of being a regular on this team sometime this season. It's not like you make the Wings out of camp or don't make the Wings at all. Anyway, crappy news for him. This has nothing to do with conditioning age etc and serves as a reminder that the Wings really do have bad luck with injuries. Reminds me of the time Kronwall broke his leg in California during warm-up after he got caught in a rut on the ice.

Awful news. Ah well, he'll have a legitimate shot next year at training camp. Hopefully with a chip on his shoulder

Everyone says Smith played better because of kronwall, I'm not going to argue with that, but my question is who played better and elevated their game more with kronwall, I thought that Smith-kronwall was our best d pairing all year.

Wow, bummer. Was really looking forward to seeing him in the preseason games. Hopefully he comes back and tears it up in Grand Rapids.

Awful luck for the Kid... Take your time in your recovery. I honestly was not expecting him to play with the Wings this year... spend a full year of pro hockey with GR and go from there. Oh by the way, anyone blaming this injury on the red wings staff deserves to be banned lol

But its all Holland's fault! If he didnt sign Cleary and Quincey this never would have happened! *taking tongue out of cheek*

Your coaching staff is a part of your "team". When I say we are a playoff caliber "team", I am referring to players and coaches. The topic wasn't if we were a playoff caliber roster. If the conversation is are we a playoff contending roster, I still say yes IF we are healthy. Also, people forget how much parity there is in the NHL 2014, look at Colorado, they went from 15th seed to 2nd seed in one year without really many roster changes. Having a bunch of young kids all start to gel and play at the next level at the same time can change everything. I have faith in our kids, its too bad so many fans do not. But hey.....hopefully they prove people wrong, actions speak louder then words.

Or ya kno... they just don't role a typical enforcer... like 20 other teams

My point is: Everyone is better with Kronwall, Kronwall is awesome. People act like Smith could be become awesome, and if he would only play with Kronwall that would happen. But that's the thing, he's only good when he's playing with Kronwall. Dekeyser is good. But so is Ericsson. You might as well pair Smith with Ericsson. Dekeyser is not a great puck mover by any means, he's decent and he has a good slap shot which is about it, he's a defensively minded player. Just like Ericsson. Switching out Q and D is not going to suddenly make our D better, in fact it will probably just look the same. Pushing an offensive minded guy like Smith with another guy with somehwat of an O mind only hurts ur second pairing IMO. Cause then your second pairing is Q-D-E ALL DEFENSIVE GUYS. No balance there.

Babcock is smart, not dumb. As a smart man he knows what he's going to get from the Wings/Holland. That's a playoff chance each and every year. Some better than others. He likes his manager and the system that caters to him. By leaving he runs a huge risk. He walks into a system that may be hot now, but might not be hot tmrw or in 3 years. He might have to deal with big headed players he doesn't like. Big headed managers he doesn't like. Other problems unbeknownst to him. The Wings offer a very stable system, where he knows he's gonna good young talent every year, even if the trade pipelines don't workout. Doubt he leaves. That's a coaching paradise. Crosby may be good, But he has only one cup bc there has been a disaster of problems around him. If I'm babcock I don't want to handcuff myself to that system. I also want my legacy to be reconized because I was awesome. Not because Crosby and Malkin were, aka GlenSather

Q and D are both defensive Dmen. I highly doubt D is going to suddenly re-energize Smith's O game because of his slightly better defensive abilities. Any D-man on this team would excel with Kronwall ad their partner. Smith is not some strange exception. Lashoff would suddenly look lightyears better with Nik.

The Quincey/Smith pairing has never worked and Babs just keeps reverting back to it if that is the case again. Smith needs someone that allows him to jump into plays and be more active offensively. He played his best hockey by far with Kronwall as his partner last season. I don't care so much if the Wings leave Kronwall and E together, but at least play Smith with DeKeyser. Quincey on the third pairing with whichever other mistake is necessary or ideally Marchenko/Ouellet instead.

Are we giving Aaron Rome a tryout? These rosters say a few things to me. Kronwall and Ericsson are likely sticking together again. Smith and Quincey as well. Jurco is separated from the kid line in favor of Nyquist, which may mean he'll be starting in GR. I see a Helm - Datsyuk - Mantha/Jurco line forming. Weiss is grouped with a buncha kids and Abdelkader. I don't know if that's good or bad. I'm thinking the idea is give him a big veteran leadership role early on to build confidence. Idk about forward lines, but I see the defensive pairings shaking out pretty much exactly like last season Kronwall - Ericsson Smith - Quincey Dekeyser - Kindl Lashoff

You just have unique definitions of that term. For most playoff caliber would mean able to make the playoffs and making the playoff would be proof of that. You seem to discount the lower seeds as playoff caliber because they usually don't "control there own destiny." That's going to be an uphill battle against common sense, I think. It is possible that we wouldn't have made the playoffs with a different coach, but it's also possible we would have finished higher without our injury woes. Both are what ifs - I think it's better just to deal with what did happen and we did make the playoffs. Also, I have not come across a commentator who's predicting we won't this year with the same roster. I also disagree your rhetorical question, "top coach plus playoff-caliber team should at least be in that discussion, right?." I've never heard anyone argue that a lower seeded playoff team was a contender because of their coaching - it's always that the team underperformed during the season or they made some big deadline aquistions.

I think a few Bruins scouts were at that game. They all stared at his knee and BAMB!!!!!!!!!!!

If you read the post directly before mine you would understand that my comment was in no way directed toward you. It was somewhat of a mock toward the previous comment of "Welcome to the Red Wings, where injuries are expected!" and also to the many other people I expected to follow up with panic - "the sky is falling" - replies... Your question was valid and I didn't say anything about that, however, I'm not really sure if it was thread worthy... It could have easily been questioned in the other Mantha thread or the Pre-Season thread. Anyway, relax, it wasn't directed at you...

What a thoughtful contribution.

Welcome to the Red Wings, where injuries are expected!

Can't you read? He's an amateur *finger.* he points at stuff, and touches things, and picks noses. Just not professionally.