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The last couple of drafts being in the very bottom hasn't worked out all that well for us. So maybe we move a bit and get some "puck" luck

Ah! But here is what you are forgetting. The Wings now have a few better players up front that weren't there on the "worst" team. You could play them like this: Killorn - Johnson - Ryan or Killorn - Namestikov - Johnson Either of those lines would be a nice middle 6. The better statement would be, it's a tad unrealistic to expect them to produce the same as they did with one of the best coaches in the league as they would be playing for THE worst coach in the league.

I don't see where Yzerman does NOT do the above proposed deal from the article. or this one. The "package" is Killorn and Johnson, along with what's listed above...for a FOURTH ROUND PICK! C'mon man! There is no other world where we could make a deal like this or the former. Take advantage of this anomaly of a year! Here is a way to look at it, both Helm and Glenny are UFA at the end of the season, would this team be better re-signing them or having Killorn and Johnson in their place? Or any combo of one or the other...

I think it's a tad unrealistic to expect Johnson or Killorn to produce at the same clip with the worst team in the league as they did with the best team in the league. They would both likely see a significant dip in production going from the powerhouse Lightning to the bottom feeder Red Wings. I wouldn't expect anything more than 0.5 point per game players at best. With the flat cap, I don't see any top teams being able, let alone willing, to give up premium assets for middle six forwards at the trade deadline. They're also not likely to acquire these players with 2-3 years term remaining. If we were to trade for Killorn and Johnson, I think both would be Red Wings for the next 2-3 years respectively (unless one were picked up by Seattle). The Toffoli comparison kind of falls apart when you realize the contending team was acquiring, and the bottom feeder team was giving up the player. That's the opposite of this situation. If we had a Johnson and / or Killorn, and Tampa had cap space, I'm sure they'd be willing to give up similar pieces as Vancouver did. That's simply not the case though. I'd do a straight up hockey trade for Killorn as well, if we were in a position to do so (aka a contender). Making that sort of trade now would be counterproductive. Tampa need to shed salary cap space. Detroit do not need to add any more players. They do not need to add salary. If Tampa want to trade either of these players to Detroit, it should come at a premium. A late 1st round pick isn't that, for that much AAV and term. Don't do any team, let alone a divisional rival, and current Stanley Cup champion team, any favors. Yzerman has made it abundantly clear through his moves this offseason and in his press conferences, that he does not want to handcuff the team with long term contracts. He wants cap flexibility. It's a very smart way to navigate a rebuild. Adding both Johnson and Killorn would go against everything he's done and said up to this point. The only way he does it, is if it's a massive boost to the rebuild. Again, a late 1st round pick just isn't it in my opinion.

Yeah. There's so many other things people are talking about in here. Silly me for trying to take a trade rumor and reason on it from a different point of view. I'll try to be more narrow minded from now on.

You're saying a lot actually. None of which is making a whole lot of sense... Yzerman won't make this trade. It's a bad rumor with no substance. You can try to rationalize it all you want. Taking on that much cap space for such a little return makes no sense for a team in the position the Red Wings are currently in. Yzerman would not want to make such a bad trade helping out a divisional rival. You would not make this trade. I would not make this trade. No Red Wings fan would make this trade. But Yzerman might? Johnson and Killorn are not "very good" forwards. They're average, past their prime forwards on bad contracts, that are only going to look worse over the next couple seasons. Yes, that's the question, and we've all answered it, including you. No one here is saying under no circumstance should Yzerman trade for Johnson and / or Killorn. In fact, pretty much everyone agrees that Yzerman should trade for one or both. However, most everyone agrees that a 1st round pick isn't near enough compensation. It's not even close.

So your justification for taking on two bad contracts is that some other bad contracts will be falling off next offseason? We're finally getting some cap flexibility. Don't f*** that up by taking on two more bad contracts that no team wants, for minimal compensation. The likelihood that pick (assuming it's 28-31) is a player (bottom six forward / bottom pair defenseman) is probably around 30-40%, an impact player (top six forward / top four defenseman), around 5-10%, and elite player, less than 1%... That's not worth taking on $9.5M in cap space for the next 3-4 years. Again, Tampa has zero leverage here. Don't help out a divisional rival, unless we're getting heavily compensated. A late 1st round pick doesn't come close to making it worthwhile. Exactly.

I'd 100% take on both players... but and it's a BIG BUT, I can not lie, it would take a King's ransom... my ask would be 2021 and 2022 1st rounders and 2 of their top prospects. In this scenario we'd have all of the leverage and can simply walk if the deal isn't sweet enough. Worth considering is that some of our prospects can be left in Europe until the season there ends and then recalled... this should roughly get us to the TDL where some of our own UFAs Helm, etc can be traded for futures to open roster spots. Additionally, we can in a couple of years, retain salary and flip Johnson and/or Killorn for more picks or prospects. This is EXACTLY the move we should make if the price is right.

I believe Gagner, Helm and Glendening are all UFA's this year and will probably be flipped at the TDL. Nielsen will likely be bought out over the summer. Seattle will have to take a player, and Johnson or Killorn would be the most desirable out of whose available. It's possible only one would still be on the roster after the expansion draft. Subtract Helm, Glendening, Gagner, and Nielsen from the roster and replace with one or both of Johnson and Killorn and it doesn't sound so bad to me. And you get a late first round pick out of it. Edit: Filppula is UFA too. So that's potentially 5 bottom 6 forwards disappearing from this years roster. Even if you bring up guys like Rasmussen, Svech, Timo, and Smith, you still need some vets to fill out the roster. A little pricey, longer term than you'd want, in Johnson and Killorn, but you're still getting the 1st round pick as compensation.

The AAV isn't that bad (still not good), but the term is pretty bad for two 30+ year old players signed for another 3+ seasons, about to hit an inevitable decline. Even without the age factor, you also have to consider their likely drop in production, going from the best team in the league to the worst team in the league... So yeah, unless there's a significant return, I have zero interest in helping Tampa get out of cap hell... Ask yourself, if Johnson were a UFA this offseason, would you be okay with signing him to a four year, $5M contract? Or Killorn for three years at $4.45M? Hell no! Fans would be pissed, and rightfully so, especially after signing two similarly productive players, for one year, $1M, and two years, $2M... Yes, a player can be buried in the minors. However, only a shade over a $1M of the contract can be buried, leaving around $3.5-4M on the books for the length of the contract. I'm not sure about cap limit in the AHL, but there is a veteran limit of, I think four players... We don't need any more average 30+ year old players on long term contracts. I stand by my 1st round pick, plus a sweetener (or similar package) for each one individually, and I wouldn't take both of them regardless.

As potentially valuable as guys like Johnson and Killorn might be to playoff contenders, contracts of that length and dollar value would not be easy to unload at the trade deadline, IMO. If either guy comes here, best assume he's here until the final year of his deal.