2007 College Football Season Talk

[betterREDthandead 58]

The way this season is ending up is EXACTLY why Michigan's loss to Wisconsin a few weeks ago was big, despite Michigan fans coming in here saying the "game didn't matter"

The title game is shaping up to be West Va vs Kansas/Missouri but there is a catch. Kansas/Missouri still has to play Oklahoma for the Big 12 title game. If Oklahoma beats either Kansas/Missouri, Ohio State is in the National Championship game, leaving Illinois possibly in BCS. Had Michigan defeated Wisconsin, there would be no debate about that Michigan would get the nod over Illinois, but because Michigan is ineligable for the BCS because of only winning 8 games, they have to settle for the Capital One or Outback Bowl.

You just don't ******* get it! It doesn't ******* matter whether we go to the C*****l O** Bowl or the O*****k Bowl or the Alamo Bowl or the C****s S****s Bowl or what the hell ever. They're not the Rose Bowl. And do you honestly think the BCS would have picked Michigan as an at-large team with the loss to App State on record?

So it's all about BEATING OHIO STATE!

Look, not to sound arrogant and disrespectful, but you're an MSU fan, and MSU generally needs to climb the ladder as high as it can every year. For MSU, there's a difference between the Alamo Bowl and the C*****l O** Bowl. For Michigan, it's different. It's not a ladder climb, it's more like a high jump. You either clear the bar and get to the Rose Bowl, or you don't. And beating OSU goes hand in hand with getting to the Rose Bowl.

[timothy1997 0]

You just don't ******* get it! It doesn't ******* matter whether we go to the C*****l O** Bowl or the O*****k Bowl or the Alamo Bowl or the C****s S****s Bowl or what the hell ever. They're not the Rose Bowl. And do you honestly think the BCS would have picked Michigan as an at-large team with the loss to App State on record?

So it's all about BEATING OHIO STATE!

Look, not to sound arrogant and disrespectful, but you're an MSU fan, and MSU generally needs to climb the ladder as high as it can every year. For MSU, there's a difference between the Alamo Bowl and the C*****l O** Bowl. For Michigan, it's different. It's not a ladder climb, it's more like a high jump. You either clear the bar and get to the Rose Bowl, or you don't. And beating OSU goes hand in hand with getting to the Rose Bowl.

I have a hard time believing that there are college football games that flat out "don't matter" during the course of the college football season. Michigan's first game is proof that on any given saturday, any team can be beat.

If the only goal out there is to go to the Rose Bowl...was 2006 a successful season? Michigan went to the Rose Bowl despite losing to Ohio State. Which is the goal: Going to the Rose Bowl or beating Ohio State? Most years both go hand-n-hand but not in 2006. I made the arguement that because Michigan is Michigan, had they beaten Wisconsin, they would have an outside shot at the Rose Bowl, albeit small.

To comment another topic being thrown around here.

I like this tournament idea

I think this would be awesome for divison 1 football. They would make winning the conference the most important thing as it should be, and still reward teams that finished with great 2nd place finishes. Does anyone really care now that USC, Arizona State and UCLA are battling for the Pac 10 crown this weekend? No. One of those teams is going to the Rose Bowl and honestly, I could care less which one is there. Under this new plan, it would matter a ton. Kinda weird tho seeing Central Michigan taking on Mizzou.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I have a hard time believing that there are college football games that flat out "don't matter" during the course of the college football season. Michigan's first game is proof that on any given saturday, any team can be beat.

If the only goal out there is to go to the Rose Bowl...was 2006 a successful season? Michigan went to the Rose Bowl despite losing to Ohio State. Which is the goal: Going to the Rose Bowl or beating Ohio State? Most years both go hand-n-hand but not in 2006. I made the arguement that because Michigan is Michigan, had they beaten Wisconsin, they would have an outside shot at the Rose Bowl, albeit small.

To comment another topic being thrown around here.

I like this tournament idea

I think this would be awesome for divison 1 football. They would make winning the conference the most important thing as it should be, and still reward teams that finished with great 2nd place finishes. Does anyone really care now that USC, Arizona State and UCLA are battling for the Pac 10 crown this weekend? No. One of those teams is going to the Rose Bowl and honestly, I could care less which one is there. Under this new plan, it would matter a ton. Kinda weird tho seeing Central Michigan taking on Mizzou.

If you don't care who's in the Rose Bowl, why would you suddenly care about who plays Oklahoma in the first round of the so-called playoffs? That's the issue I have with Wetzel's argument there.

Some other schmo argued me that college football would be popular around the world if only they had a playoff system. The arrogance of the playoff proponents know no bounds sometimes. Like a playoff is a magic bullet that suddenly makes everything completely fascinating.

And no, 2006 was not exactly successful. Beating Ohio State would have been nice. Call it clearing the high jump but getting hurt on the landing. That was a unique, first-time situation though. Very strange.

[eva unit zero 271]

Notre Dame and the rest of the non-bcs conferences would be up in arms to be neglected, even teams like Notre Dame should join a conference.

How does that neglect the non-BCS conferences and the Independents?

Currently there are ten BCS game slots, six of which are dedicated to conference champions. That leaves four at large berths. By taking away six more teams that would contend for at-large berths, I've effectively INCREASED the chances that a team from a non-BCS conference would get a real shot at winning it all.

As for the '8-4 Michigan over 9-3 Illinois WTF' comment.

Georgia is the top-ranked team in the SEC and has an excellent shot at making the title game if Missouri and West Virginia lose, and an even better chance if LSU and Virginia Tech ALSO lose. Yet Georgia doesn't have the opportunity to play for the conference title because they tied at 6-2 in the division with Tennessee, who beat them and therefore holds the tiebreaker. If the conference championship were not division-based, Georgia would play Tennessee for the SEC title, leaving LSU out of the mix as Georgia has a better ranking and did not play LSU. Based on overall record, 9-3 Tennessee would be left out. I set up so that the three 'single-division' conferences would operate in the same fashion; based on conference record.

If a playoff system is set up based solely on BCS rankings, one thing that MUST happen would be that the SEC, ACC, and Big 12 championship games would have to be abolished or incorporated to allow for proper scheduling. I was doing what I could to appease both sides of that argument but still make it fair for the Big 10, Big East, and Pac-10 teams that finish 2nd in their conference.

But I'll make a couple modifiers. For example, if we limit the number of teams per conference to three as you have in your example, Florida is removed from the playoff and replaced with Illinois. If we make a further modification to appease the small conferences and Notre Dame; reserving one At-Large berth for the highest ranked team not from one of the six BCS conferences, there are no changes made to my example bracket as Hawaii is already in the playoff. Notre Dame should receive no special considerations above other independents if we want this to be a 'fair' solution. My playoff bracket was an attempt to reconcile the 'tradition of the bowls' argument with the obvious need for a playoff in the best manner possible, and I think in that that I have succeeded. Ultimately, there are teams that would be left out in favor of other, lower-ranked teams...but a minimum of two teams currently in the top ten WILL be left out of the BCS completely THIS season, most likely Oklahoma and Florida but with the right teams losing it could be all of USC, Kansas/Missouri, LSU, and Florida. In my scenario, only USC drops out of the top ten, with three conference champions coming from outside the top ten and Illinois and Hawaii sliding ahead of USC and AZ State after those two Pac-10 teams lose and UCLA ends up playing one more home game in January.

[timothy1997 0]

If you don't care who's in the Rose Bowl, why would you suddenly care about who plays Oklahoma in the first round of the so-called playoffs? That's the issue I have with Wetzel's argument there.

Some other schmo argued me that college football would be popular around the world if only they had a playoff system. The arrogance of the playoff proponents know no bounds sometimes. Like a playoff is a magic bullet that suddenly makes everything completely fascinating.

And no, 2006 was not exactly successful. Beating Ohio State would have been nice. Call it clearing the high jump but getting hurt on the landing. That was a unique, first-time situation though. Very strange.

My point is the Pac-10 winner will be determined this weekend and despite early hype, the winner will have no barring on the championship. That is probably a good thing this year considering every team in the pac-10 beat up on each other and teams like usc, oregon and arizona state can only blame themselves. Thus, the pac-10 winner is irrevelant.

I am not saying the playoff scernario is perfect but if the playoff system works for divison 1-aa and divison 2, then why cant it work for divison 1. Too many years we either have teams being left out or like in 2006, people can make a case for either Michigan or Florida in the title game. A playoff system would allow their to be a clear cut #1 on the field where it belongs.

How does that neglect the non-BCS conferences and the Independents?

My point on Notre Dame and the rest of the Independants is this. You cannot exclude them for a playoff bracket. None of those teams deserve to be included this year but if Notre Dame is one of the top teams, they have every right to take one of the at-large berths for their shot at the title. I don't want anymore special treatment than that.

As far as the non-bcs conferences go, every year we have 1 team from the non-bcs conferences make a run. Surely we don't think they are capable of beating #1 in the BCS but they at least deserve a shot.

Currently there are ten BCS game slots, six of which are dedicated to conference champions. That leaves four at large berths. By taking away six more teams that would contend for at-large berths, I've effectively INCREASED the chances that a team from a non-BCS conference would get a real shot at winning it all.

So under this plan, the problem you would have is if Central Michigan made a run and won all the games, winning the championship then. Correct?

That is no different than what they do in the NCAA college basketball bracket and tons of people love that tournament

Edited November 27, 2007 by timothy1997

[Matt 1,049]

I'd prefer the playoff system Wetzel outlined.

[vangvace 12]

I am not saying the playoff scernario is perfect but if the playoff system works for divison 1-aa and divison 2, then why cant it work for divison 1. Too many years we either have teams being left out or like in 2006, people can make a case for either Michigan or Florida in the title game. A playoff system would allow their to be a clear cut #1 on the field where it belongs.

That is no different than what they do in the NCAA college basketball bracket and tons of people love that tournament

My two big problems with a playoff system is that it could kill much of the regular season interest like it has for NCAA basketball.

My other problem is that it won't fix the "problem" with a clear cut number 1. In just about every sport's playoffs you still have issues with who wins the championship. "Team X doesn't deserve to be there because Team Y is the better team"

[Grittzkey 1]

Utter nonsense. Under no circumstances is it conceivable that a 9-3 team would leapfrog an 11-1 team to play for the title. That's your imagination thinking up ways to argue against the BCS. The voters aren't so dumb as to do that. If the two 11-1 teams are clearly the best teams, they're not getting leapfrogged by a 9-3 team. Ridiculous.

Or final exams. In case you didn't notice, they are STUDENT-athletes.

Dude f*** off. it happens every year.

they are only two 11-1 teams, one looses first game of the season one looses last game of the season.. the team who looses the last game of the season wont be in the tittle game, because of when they ******* lost. happens every ******* year, and thats the reason behind people wanting a play off.

dont go ******* treatting me like a ******* kid. telling me idont know s***. god you ******* piss me off

[timothy1997 0]

Dude f*** off. it happens every year.

they are only two 11-1 teams, one looses first game of the season one looses last game of the season.. the team who looses the last game of the season wont be in the tittle game, because of when they ******* lost. happens every ******* year, and thats the reason behind people wanting a play off.

dont go ******* treatting me like a ******* kid. telling me idont know s***. god you ******* piss me off

Do you think it is wise for a newbie to make a rant like this against a mod??

Edited November 27, 2007 by timothy1997

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Dude f*** off. it happens every year.

they are only two 11-1 teams, one looses first game of the season one looses last game of the season.. the team who looses the last game of the season wont be in the tittle game, because of when they ******* lost. happens every ******* year, and thats the reason behind people wanting a play off.

dont go ******* treatting me like a ******* kid. telling me idont know s***. god you ******* piss me off

Take a friken chill pill. Red can say whatever he wants he here, and so can anyone else. He posts have meaning, and he doesn't use the F-bomb non stop like someone on here.....

If you think you are being treated like a kid quit cussing like one...it would probably be a good start.

Edited November 27, 2007 by mannysBETTER3434

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

Temporary Oklahoma fan this weekend...Boomer Sooner! I guess I'm also a Pitt fan, but I dont think they have much of a shot.

It's likely that if Ohio State does move up to the NC, Michigan would play Florida in whatever the name of that bowl in Florida is these days. I don't say this often, but if they play, ahem...Go Blew! (That's the closest to the actual thing I will allow myself to say, but seriously.)

[betterREDthandead 58]

Dude f*** off. it happens every year.

they are only two 11-1 teams, one looses first game of the season one looses last game of the season.. the team who looses the last game of the season wont be in the tittle game, because of when they ******* lost. happens every ******* year, and thats the reason behind people wanting a play off.

dont go ******* treatting me like a ******* kid. telling me idont know s***. god you ******* piss me off

Wow. I tell you what. You find me when a 9-3 team was put in any championship over a BCS-conference team with fewer losses and I'll shut up.

In fact, you find me ANY title game at ANY time under the BCS when ANY BCS-conference team with a better record was snubbed for a team with a worse record.

I'll give you a hint: You can't use 2001. See, in 2001, Nebraska lost their last game, to Colorado. It was their only loss. Colorado then won the Big 12 championship. But Nebraska went to the national championship anyway. Why? Because they were 11-1 and Colorado was 10-2.

"Happens every year." You crack me up. It never happens, but I'll gladly eat my crow if you can find it. I'm waiting....

You can cuss at me all you like. But next time get the facts on your side.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I am by no means an LSU homer and some of the things I read/heard after their loss to Arkansas Friday by fans cracked me up, but I heard something on talk radio this morning that got me a bit curious...

Firstly and less of what got me curious, I'm surprised they dropped all the way to 7th in the BCS, especially when Virginia Tech (who they pistol whipped) and Georgia (not even going to the SEC Championship) is ahead of them. Thought they'd be at worse #5. Guess the theory of "lose early, not late" really applies to the BCS for better or worse. Not really ranting/complaning about this, but you get what I mean...

Secondly, if the old ways to determine college football were used and we were back to ties, you think LSU would still be in the National Championship picture, assuming they win the SEC championship? Because they have not lost in regulation at all this season (both losses in triple overtime), and with those rules they'd be 10-0-2. Or do you think some teams with 1 loss would deserve to be ahead of them?

Again, not trying to be an LSU homer or justify their case for being in the National Championship game itself, but what I heard this morning surprisingly interested me. I understand and am content with how standings are determined now without ties and everything else, as there is no one perfect system.

[eva unit zero 271]

Georgia is ranked higher than LSU because Georgia has played better. LSU lost twice, but nearly lose three other times. Georgia has had a last-second win against Vanderbilt and an overtime win against Alabama, but has easily beaten every other opponent they have faced. LSU has taken the lead over late in the fourth quarter or in overtime this season against: Alabama, Auburn, and Florida. With just a shade less luck, LSU is a 7-5 team that has the 8th best overall record in the SEC and is fifth in the division with a 3-5 conference record. If Georgia had lost both of its close games, they'd be 8-4, and 4-4 in the conference; good for 4th overall and third in the division.

[eva unit zero 271]

My point is the Pac-10 winner will be determined this weekend and despite early hype, the winner will have no barring on the championship. That is probably a good thing this year considering every team in the pac-10 beat up on each other and teams like usc, oregon and arizona state can only blame themselves. Thus, the pac-10 winner is irrevelant.

I am not saying the playoff scernario is perfect but if the playoff system works for divison 1-aa and divison 2, then why cant it work for divison 1. Too many years we either have teams being left out or like in 2006, people can make a case for either Michigan or Florida in the title game. A playoff system would allow their to be a clear cut #1 on the field where it belongs.

My point on Notre Dame and the rest of the Independants is this. You cannot exclude them for a playoff bracket. None of those teams deserve to be included this year but if Notre Dame is one of the top teams, they have every right to take one of the at-large berths for their shot at the title. I don't want anymore special treatment than that.

As far as the non-bcs conferences go, every year we have 1 team from the non-bcs conferences make a run. Surely we don't think they are capable of beating #1 in the BCS but they at least deserve a shot.

So under this plan, the problem you would have is if Central Michigan made a run and won all the games, winning the championship then. Correct?

That is no different than what they do in the NCAA college basketball bracket and tons of people love that tournament

Wetzel's system is a good system, but it will not happen that way immediately. The BCS conferences would not so readily hand over equality to the minor conferences. As I said before, my proposal was an attempt to BRIDGE THE GAP and create a REALISTIC scenario that addresses all of the anti-playoff arguments in a way that could work. It was NOT my ideal solution, but rather one I thought could actually be implemented with the minimum possible dissent.

Here's an example bracket for my system based on last season's pre-bowl polls:

Big Ten: Ohio State vs Michigan

Pac-10: USC vs California

Big 12: Oklahoma d. Nebraska

At-Large: Wisconsin v. Boise State

SEC: Florida d. Arkansas

Big East: Louisville v. Rutgers

ACC: Wake Forest d. Georgia Tech

At-Large: LSU vs Notre Dame

As I have said before...I feel Michigan would have beaten OSU had they played for the title game. So we'll use that projection in filling out the bracket. The SEC, Big 12, and ACC titles games actually were played, so their results have already been entered. USC, Wisconsin, LSU, and Louisville are the other likely winners.

That plays out to the following bowl matchups:

Rose: USC v. Michigan (we know how that worked out)

Fiesta: Oklahoma v. Wisconsin (Wisconsin 'beat' the team that actually beat OK in the Fiesta)

Sugar bowl: Florida v Louisville (Florida was much better than Louisville)

Orange Bowl: LSU v Wake Forest (LSU would have stomped Wake)

This would lead to:

WEST SEMIFINAL: USC v Wisconsin

EAST SEMIFINAL: Florida v LSU

I think those matchups would likely lead to a title game of:

TITLE GAME: USC v Florida. Both of these teams were able to avoid getting rusty in the pre-bowl break, and destroyed Michigan and OSU in what were basically home games in January. As for a winner? I am going to say USC would have beaten Florida.

[timothy1997 0]

ESPN is reporting that LSU has allowed Les Miles to speak with the Michigan brass. Looks like Miles is going to offered the Michigan job.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

ESPN is reporting that LSU has allowed Les Miles to speak with the Michigan brass. Looks like Miles is going to offered the Michigan job.

It was only a matter of time. Miles will coach U-M next year, no doubt about it.

[timothy1997 0]

It was only a matter of time. Miles will coach U-M next year, no doubt about it.

LSU can give him all the money they have, but they may never touch his heart like the University of Michigan. It's in his blood

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

LSU can give him all the money they have, but they may never touch his heart like the University of Michigan. It's in his blood

Exactly, but from reading online this are going to get intense. The people in power at U-M are on one side or the other on Miles, and there is no in between. I don''t know what the problem is, but most believe Carr is really against Miles coming here. There must have been many conflicts between Carr, and Miles while under Bo.

[timothy1997 0]

Exactly, but from reading online this are going to get intense. The people in power at U-M are on one side or the other on Miles, and there is no in between. I don''t know what the problem is, but most believe Carr is really against Miles coming here. There must have been many conflicts between Carr, and Miles while under Bo.

I thought it had mostly to do with Miles not staying on to join Carr's coaching staff.

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

I'm not sure that Les Miles is the Golden Boy he's being made out to be....but he may be Michigan's best option.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

I thought it had mostly to do with Miles not staying on to join Carr's coaching staff.

That could be it. I have no clue. I have read many rumors, but don't put much faith in most of them.

I'm not sure that Les Miles is the Golden Boy he's being made out to be....but he may be Michigan's best option.

I think Miles and Brian Kelly were the only 2 good options from the start.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Perfect example today of why the playoff proponents are only kidding themselves when they bring up all those arguments about how a playoff would suddenly make the conference championships more interesting. Today all eyes are on Mizzou-OU, because if Missouri wins, they go to the title game. If they lose, OSU goes instead. (Barf. Go Tigers.) Under Wetzel's playoff, this game would be 100%, totally, completely irrelevant. So it cuts both ways.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

The only playoff system i'd be in favor of is a 4 team one....NO MORE than that. The beauty of the college football regular season is every game is so vital. You start allowing 16 or whatever teams in, and all of a sudden games games in the reg season start to lose their luster. You lose 2 games in college football...you're screwed. Thats how i want to keep it.

I really feel like Oklahoma is going to win this game by double digits....something like 37-24.I hope im wrong because i do NOT want to see Ohio St vs WVU.

Best case scenario for me as a viewer is Missouri beating OK and Pitt somehow upsetting WVU...giving me Missouri vs Ohio St.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!!! ESPN says Miles to Michigan. Det Press says Miles is staying. I'M SCARED TO DEATH RIGHT NOW!!