Goalie Pads

[eva unit zero 271]

They would be too small for you. My son was wearing 34's around the same size as you and when he took the same sprout, the pads became too small. Had he played another year, he would have been in 36's.

Some interesting discussion on this topic. Some guys/girls who know a lot about goalies and equipment (love the comment about size of pads and style - a mobile goalie will give up some size to be quicker and more agile) and some who know squat (the five hole is between the legs, not over the shoulders, pads can't possibly be 2 to 3 times too big - at 38x11, thats 418 sq inches divided by 2 times too big divided by say 9 inches wide = 23 inches of height. My son was wearing 27 inch pads when he was 10. )

There isn't a goalie in the league who isn't making sure they are pushing the rules to the limit but at the same time making sure they don't go over the limit. Duh - they are paid to stop pucks. I don't see how Giguere is a lousy goalie who only makes saves because of his equipment. They can all use the same equipment. Does his size help? Of course it does. He relies on size and positioning more than (some) other goalies because that's what works for him. His practices and preparation are going to all be about angles and positioning. Because of his size, he can play further back in the net and move less. He doesn't need to be Dominic Hasek. Hasek needs to be mobile and however else you would describe his style and make all of these weird saves because he constantly gets himself out of position because he has to come out further, challenge more and react quickly. That doesn't make him a better goalie, just one who's more "interesting" to watch. Watch Kipper when he's on his game. His reactions and lateral movement are phenomenal and most importantly the puck seems to just keep hitting him in the chest because he is so good positionally. Those things work against him in a shootout - he's easy to fake out one on one because of how quick he reacts to movement.

They've already dropped goalie pads from 12 to 11 inches wide. They could probably go to 10 or even thinner without creating injury risk. The height of the pads is largely irrelevant. The pad has to be high enough to meet the pant to cover the upper leg. Reduce the height of the pad, increase the length of the pants - nothing much changes. You might prevent the pads from touching in a butterfly, but goals don't go through the five hole once the goalie is down, they go through there on the way down and on the way down the height of the pads is irrelevant.

The problem with the length of the pads is that the elongated portion above the knee just sort of sticks out on guys like Giguere. This often results in additional blocking area that covers areas where goals can be scored on goalies with smaller gear.

And if you say someone who is 5'9" can't wear pads smaller than 36", why does Brodeur, who is 6'2". wear 35" pads?

[imisssergei 0]

I would say a slightly illegal curve is less of cheating than lil Manny Legace wearing 38 inch pads. I mean hell, he's only 69 inches tall. Using basic human proporton, legs are typically about half a person's height.

Based on this, 6'2" Martin Brodeur should have legs that are approximately 37 inches long. But as a goalie's leg pad is not intended to cover his entire leg up to his waist, Brodeur wears 35" pads.

So Manny's legs are about 35 inches long. Using Brodeur as an example, shouldn't he then be wearing 33" pads? Yet Legace wears 38" pads.

Tell me that wearing ridiculously oversized equipment is not cheating again?

How is it cheating if it is legal? If the pads are within the required limitations, they are legal, hence it would be impossible to be cheating by using them.

I won't argue that Manny's stuff is huge. My suggestion would solve a few things, such as Chara's stick length issue. Make all equipment size regulations based on player size.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Just like if you played with a 1980 hockey stick it would be a huge diffrence from today light carbon fiber sticks. The game has advanced as equipment technology goes. Whats wrong with that?

Technological advance usually has the result of something smaller performaing as well or better than a larger, heavier item from the past.

Take for example the flak jackets worn by our troops. In 1970, in VietNam, the flack jackets we wore were made of overlapping layers of steel and they were heavy- about 35 pounds heavy. They did a good job of stopping stray rounds but an AK47 could penetrate them fairly easily from inside of about 100 feet.

Fast forward to today, where the flak jackets are made from Kevlar, weigh about 50% of the old ones, and can stop an AK47 bullet from penetrating from 20 feet. On top of it they are thinner than their 1970 couterparts.

So from the example above you can see that the technology has advanced enough so now there is a lighter version of the old version that does a better job.

Now look at hockey goalie pads- they have gotten lighter and are made from better materials, but they have ALSO increased in size and coverage area since the 80's. So now, they don't just do a better job of protecting the gaolie, which is what they are supposed to do, they do a better job of protecting the netting behind them, which is what the goalie (not the pads) is supposed to do.

[shadow47 1]

Hockey has become such a bitchfest. Giguere's pads are not much bigger than any goalie's. Period. Maybe they're a little bigger, oh well. It makes as much difference as 12" pads made, and 13" and 14" pads made. There are still few goals scored compared to the out of shape players of the 80s, hockey has taken giant leaps since then in every area. Is having bigger equipment than the 80s "wrong" as someone put it? Hardly. Hockey has changed over the years, Bettman and the NHL PR has brainwashed people to believe that more goals will create a better game but it won't. When someone wants something now it is just an "I want this rule implemented/changed" argument instead of just adapting, playing hard, playing with heart. It's just stupid. "Hasek's undercutting should be illegal", "Goalies look like Michelin Men despite two different equipment shrinkings the past three years", "Giguere is still cheating even though he's not", "If he had one to two inches less padding we would score LOADS on him". This is absolute crap. Just play hockey.

And on the 80s Fuhr/Giguere comparison, see: composite sticks, evolving position, better conditioned athletes

[shadow47 1]

Technological advance usually has the result of something smaller performaing as well or better than a larger, heavier item from the past.

Take for example the flak jackets worn by our troops. In 1970, in VietNam, the flack jackets we wore were made of overlapping layers of steel and they were heavy- about 35 pounds heavy. They did a good job of stopping stray rounds but an AK47 could penetrate them fairly easily from inside of about 100 feet.

Fast forward to today, where the flak jackets are made from Kevlar, weigh about 50% of the old ones, and can stop an AK47 bullet from penetrating from 20 feet. On top of it they are thinner than their 1970 couterparts.

So from the example above you can see that the technology has advanced enough so now there is a lighter version of the old version that does a better job.

Now look at hockey goalie pads- they have gotten lighter and are made from better materials, but they have ALSO increased in size and coverage area since the 80's. So now, they don't just do a better job of protecting the gaolie, which is what they are supposed to do, they do a better job of protecting the netting behind them, which is what the goalie (not the pads) is supposed to do.

You're so logical and rational, amazing. Vests have gotten smaller because that suits their purpose. And chest pads have gotten larger for the same reason, it is not a given that any advance in technology dictates a size decrease when that doesn't increase convenience. Why are goalies villains? Because what the players do to score is heroic and goalies (the minority) trying to stop them is not. Shouldn't players be the ones shooting the puck and not their sticks? Their job is to score, why let the equipment do it for them, since it is proven that players have a harder shot with the composites. Now goalies, their job is to stop the puck, their equipment serves this purpose. Why is a goalie's stick thicker, is it protection, or blocking coverage? Why are pads rectangular? Not protection, look at a lacrosse goaltender for proof here. Preachers who rattle on about goaltender equipment being ONLY for their protection are spreading the absurd. The goal of the position you play dictates the purpose of the armament.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The NHL doesnt need more scoring thats why. So theres no point to even mess with the goalies way of playing. You wanna mess with how a goalie plays then lets take away all the flex and curve on sticks that players get. Yea that would be dumb too...just like messing with the goalie pads.

why doesn't the NHL need more scoring?

I'm pretty sure scoring has been declining each season since the lockout.

And it's not like they're just singling out goalies because they're mean. The new rules greatly affected how everyone on the ice except the goalie plays, but ultimately it's better for the game.

[Opie 308]

You're so logical and rational, amazing. Vests have gotten smaller because that suits their purpose. And chest pads have gotten larger for the same reason, it is not a given that any advance in technology dictates a size decrease when that doesn't increase convenience. Why are goalies villains? Because what the players do to score is heroic and goalies (the minority) trying to stop them is not. Shouldn't players be the ones shooting the puck and not their sticks? Their job is to score, why let the equipment do it for them, since it is proven that players have a harder shot with the composites. Now goalies, their job is to stop the puck, their equipment serves this purpose. Why is a goalie's stick thicker, is it protection, or blocking coverage? Why are pads rectangular? Not protection, look at a lacrosse goaltender for proof here. Preachers who rattle on about goaltender equipment being ONLY for their protection are spreading the absurd. The goal of the position you play dictates the purpose of the armament.

Not to jump in on some one else's battle however, the sticks don't do all of the mysterious things people think they do. The stick's main benefit is weight. Yes the whipping action does help a little however, why is it then that nobody can touch Al Iafrate's 105.2.

Chad Kilger you say, well if you want to bring in unofficial results I say to you (arguing with myself) BOBBY HULL 118.3!

The curve of the stick blade is closely monitored, so much so that Bowman was able to piss the Melrose off very very much.

My point they do monitor the stick, they have set curve restrictions.

At no point in time have you ever heard some one say, "No way in hell he scores that with a wood stick!"

I have heard and said the opposite. Perfect example for you, 2004 I am in Boston watching Wings - B's. Overtime, a rebound comes out to the high slot, goaltender waaayyy out of position from the last save. Lids walks in wide open lane and net, goes to unload a slapper at the net.

CRASH, Smash, SNAP!!! The puck goes sliding off to the corner, Lids stick is in two pieces and he has no stick. B's go the other way, don't end the game on that shot but a few shots later, GAME, SET, MATCH B's win!!!!

Another point how many kids have bought Pavel's stick, how many of them are better because or it?

How many goalies can buy bigger pads, how many goalies would become better by purchasing bigger pads?

Now how many times can you say that a goalie made a save because his pads were that big.

Now the goalie stick argument you made is a bit of a stretch, when was the last time the stick got wider or was changed in anyway other than material?

My argument , and I have yet to have a solid answer for is this:

If Martin Broduer is the world wide accepted best active goaltender of the past 10 years (pretty safe bet right) why would there be any reason for people who are smaller than him to wear bigger pads?

Isn't he proving that he is making the saves and they are letting equipment make the saves?

If at 6'2 Marty wears 35" pads (I thought he wore 34", but for this point I will use what some one else said) why would any goalie be able to justify wearing bigger pads if they are smaller than him?

The main point here is that the league is trying to sell the game, most Americans want to see scoring, reducing goalie pads or enlarging the nets would accomplish this goal. The goal size is a part of hockey history, goalie pads are a recent issue. Which would you rather see change? Me personally it is the goalie equipment.

What I would like to see is a guy using a wooden stick

[Opie 308]

why doesn't the NHL need more scoring?

I'm pretty sure scoring has been declining each season since the lockout.

And it's not like they're just singling out goalies because they're mean. The new rules greatly affected how everyone on the ice except the goalie plays, but ultimately it's better for the game.

Great point, they have restricted the way guys can play D, they have made changes to open up the game, it is not only the goalies who are being asked to change, they just have the most powerful union and the best argument. Safety, it is hard to say we are changing the goalies equipment if the goalies are publicly saying they don't feel safe (truth or not).

[Hank 0]

The NHL doesnt need more scoring thats why. So theres no point to even mess with the goalies way of playing. You wanna mess with how a goalie plays then lets take away all the flex and curve on sticks that players get. Yea that would be dumb too...just like messing with the goalie pads.

Yes it does. And not only that, but it needs a wider variety of goals other than the wash-rinse-repeat formula of, screen, deflection, rebound.

You know gear is far too big if goalies like Giggy can make $6M on sound positioning alone. He has no skills other than that. There was a time when goalies were as exciting as the best scorers in the league. They had athleticism, flair and agility - all of which Giggy has none.

Now it's about 'being big' and square to the shooter.

I want smaller gear not only for more goals (which the NHL desperately needs) but also to see acrobatic goalies again.

People that defend keeping the pads the way they are, are either goalies themselves, Giggy fans or insane. To say their fine is ridiculous and only proves that you can't think outside of your own personal agenda.

And the final argument to shut anyone up about this is, if goalie legends such as Ken Dryden, Pat Roy and Marty Brodeur say they need to be reduced, then they should be. CASE CLOSED.

[eva unit zero 271]

How is it cheating if it is legal? If the pads are within the required limitations, they are legal, hence it would be impossible to be cheating by using them.

I won't argue that Manny's stuff is huge. My suggestion would solve a few things, such as Chara's stick length issue. Make all equipment size regulations based on player size.

Giguere and Legace, and other goalies with grossly oversized gear, are cheating in the same manner in which steroid users in the 80s and 90s did. It's not technically illegal, but their abuse of that fact is unfair.

[Hank 0]

Great point, they have restricted the way guys can play D, they have made changes to open up the game, it is not only the goalies who are being asked to change, they just have the most powerful union and the best argument. Safety, it is hard to say we are changing the goalies equipment if the goalies are publicly saying they don't feel safe (truth or not).

Yup, goalies have been hiding behind the 'S' word to save their inflated stats for years now. They're so concerned about safety they don't even wear neck guards.

Anyways, that's why this has to come down to the goalies decision - shrink or the net grows. Let them make the decision and possibly alter the game from how's it's been played for nearly a century.

I've said it 1000 times already, if Nick Lidstrom can wear a boot, made out of the same material as a composite stick, that allows him to take a 100MPH slapshot off the ankle with no pain, then surely you can keep the goalies safe with gear half the size!

[Hank 0]

Not to jump in on some one else's battle however, the sticks don't do all of the mysterious things people think they do. The stick's main benefit is weight. Yes the whipping action does help a little however, why is it then that nobody can touch Al Iafrate's 105.2.

Chad Kilger you say, well if you want to bring in unofficial results I say to you (arguing with myself) BOBBY HULL 118.3!

The curve of the stick blade is closely monitored, so much so that Bowman was able to piss the Melrose off very very much.

My point they do monitor the stick, they have set curve restrictions.

At no point in time have you ever heard some one say, "No way in hell he scores that with a wood stick!"

I have heard and said the opposite. Perfect example for you, 2004 I am in Boston watching Wings - B's. Overtime, a rebound comes out to the high slot, goaltender waaayyy out of position from the last save. Lids walks in wide open lane and net, goes to unload a slapper at the net.

CRASH, Smash, SNAP!!! The puck goes sliding off to the corner, Lids stick is in two pieces and he has no stick. B's go the other way, don't end the game on that shot but a few shots later, GAME, SET, MATCH B's win!!!!

Another point how many kids have bought Pavel's stick, how many of them are better because or it?

How many goalies can buy bigger pads, how many goalies would become better by purchasing bigger pads?

Now how many times can you say that a goalie made a save because his pads were that big.

Now the goalie stick argument you made is a bit of a stretch, when was the last time the stick got wider or was changed in anyway other than material?

My argument , and I have yet to have a solid answer for is this:

If Martin Broduer is the world wide accepted best active goaltender of the past 10 years (pretty safe bet right) why would there be any reason for people who are smaller than him to wear bigger pads?

Isn't he proving that he is making the saves and they are letting equipment make the saves?

If at 6'2 Marty wears 35" pads (I thought he wore 34", but for this point I will use what some one else said) why would any goalie be able to justify wearing bigger pads if they are smaller than him?

The main point here is that the league is trying to sell the game, most Americans want to see scoring, reducing goalie pads or enlarging the nets would accomplish this goal. The goal size is a part of hockey history, goalie pads are a recent issue. Which would you rather see change? Me personally it is the goalie equipment.

What I would like to see is a guy using a wooden stick

Excellent post all around!

P.S. I've met Legace and while he's a very nice guy he's a Smurf. No way he should look as big as he does with gear on. Ryan Miller's another one. His calves are the size of my 4 year olds arms.

[calfan 0]

I've said it 1000 times already, if Nick Lidstrom can wear a boot, made out of the same material as a composite stick, that allows him to take a 100MPH slapshot off the ankle with no pain, then surely you can keep the goalies safe with gear half the size!

Odd that Lidstrom has this equipment, yet I seen many others taking shots off the ankle and foot, the result of which has been guys limping to the bench, guys with broken bones, etc. Are you sure about your facts?

Also, ever seen a goalie out of his equipment with his shirt off? My son played goal and he usually had bruises and red marks on his upper body after every game and he would be the first to tell you that no matter how good the chest protector, the shots still hurt. And he wasn't facing NHL shooters.

Its like the Kevlar vests - they stop the bullet, it won't kill you, but its still going to knock you down and leave a welt.

[Opie 308]

Calfan, the point is not to make the equipment thinner as between the chest and shirt, but narrower from edge to edge.

No one is saying make them thinner, people are saying not so wide, keep them as thick as they are maybe even thicker or a better material. I have no problem making the pads thicker or safer.

It is when a goalie's pads stick out 3 or 4 inches beyond the end of their leg, when the top of the pad is 8-10 inches above the knee, the shoulder pad sticking up to the ear. Unless you have some jacked shoulders their is no reason for your pads to be that high.

Pads sticking out 4 inches beyond the ribs are like that for what safety feature?

[theman19 47]

Odd that Lidstrom has this equipment, yet I seen many others taking shots off the ankle and foot, the result of which has been guys limping to the bench, guys with broken bones, etc. Are you sure about your facts?

Also, ever seen a goalie out of his equipment with his shirt off? My son played goal and he usually had bruises and red marks on his upper body after every game and he would be the first to tell you that no matter how good the chest protector, the shots still hurt. And he wasn't facing NHL shooters.

Its like the Kevlar vests - they stop the bullet, it won't kill you, but its still going to knock you down and leave a welt.

i play goalie and i agree with the post above talking about the width of goalie pads. It's not that the chest protector needs to be shrunk, it's that the pad itself that needs to come in from the sides.

Also as a goalie,..your argument about legs pads doesn't add up. I've taken 100+ mph shots to my legs and felt nothing, they can easily be taken off a few inches left to right with no effect

[jim3033 1]

Read this on the topic a couple pages back

Point being goailies just need to wear pads their size.

Giguere is a good goalie, but wow.

Giguere is resting his left arm on the top of his non-form fitting pads! The vest he is wearing looks pretty big too.

It literally looks like Giguere's chest guard is going to push off his mask if he isn't careful.

Hasek's right hand pad isn't as wide but looks longer. Giggy's right arm pad looks like it is surgically attached to his forearm.

I'd bet different synthetic materials can reduce the chance and amount of a rebound. I think they should set regulations on all those little things like material and how the pads fit to the goaltender. There should be a limit on how far the pads over the knee can extend from the thigh. Chest pads should be equally proportionate to each goaltender.

Hasek isn't as bad. His shin pads pull back to his thigh (Eliminating an entire strategy of play really). It is visible that he has a neck. It looks like his pads are made out of different material than Reebok's(maybe less advantageous rebounds?).

I think these little things Giggy and other new goalies do differently gives them a huge advantage while not immediately obvious. I think it is a problem and there needs to be a lot of regulations set for all the little tweaks you or a manufacturer can do.

They should be checked with respect to the goalies size before they are shipped to the goalie. They should train one of the people to check them before each game too. We have the technology now to integrate this seemlessly.

[DenJ91 0]

really? works just fine for me,....

well here's another example.

Andy Moog,..probably around the same time period,...look how small his equipment is compared to yet another example from jiggy.

http://www.allducksgraphics.com/wallpapers...s/giguere08.jpg

i wonder if anyone is creative and clever enough to photoshope moog's shape inside giguere's body to see how much net he took up comparitively. i don't know if that made sense, i think you might get what i'm saying. i guess i would just like to know the % of net the two would take up when they are in stand up mode cutting the angle down.

[Opie 308]

i wonder if anyone is creative and clever enough to photoshope moog's shape inside giguere's body to see how much net he took up comparitively. i don't know if that made sense, i think you might get what i'm saying. i guess i would just like to know the % of net the two would take up when they are in stand up mode cutting the angle down.

Tough to do you would need two pics one of each guy taken in the same position and at about the same angle!

[C-Dub 0]

Saw a blurb this weekend about Gretzeky scoring his 50 goals in...38 games? Anyway, he finished the season with 90 or so. The goalies they were showing looked silly compared to today's goalies. They looked like little kids in goal!

Pad sizes have increased like crazy and while I am not sure which is better, there probably should be a middle way somewhere. Not to take anything away from Gretzkey but Tony Twist could have netted 20 goals during the Gretzkey/Oilers era they showed in those clips.

[Hank 0]

Odd that Lidstrom has this equipment, yet I seen many others taking shots off the ankle and foot, the result of which has been guys limping to the bench, guys with broken bones, etc. Are you sure about your facts?

Also, ever seen a goalie out of his equipment with his shirt off? My son played goal and he usually had bruises and red marks on his upper body after every game and he would be the first to tell you that no matter how good the chest protector, the shots still hurt. And he wasn't facing NHL shooters.

Its like the Kevlar vests - they stop the bullet, it won't kill you, but its still going to knock you down and leave a welt.

Yes, do a google search on it. In fact, Mlive has had at least 2 interviews where he's talked about these skates and Home Ice XM204 talked with him about it prior to the Christmas Break.

So far, only a handful of players use them because they take some time to break in from their stiffness.

And from your last point we went from 'safety' to "I'm a big p*ssy who doesn't want to get a boo-boo". What makes these new-wave goalies so pussified that they don't believe they should get a bruise when goalies for decades before them had welts all over their bodies?

IT SHOULD HURT! That's what makes goalies so unique is that they're willingly throwing their bodies in front of frozen, vulconized rubber!!!!

Their argument is that the gear needs to be big to keep them safe. By 'safe' I assume that means from not dying, breaking bones or being cut. But to hell with them and everyone else who supports them if this is to mean they don't want to feel a thing. This isn't ping-FREAKIN-pong! This is HOCKEY! MEN play hockey! Be a man and shrink the equipment! For crying out loud, goalies didn't wear masks for years and we have people complaining that they might get an 'ouchy' if they don't have belly pads that stretch out 18"! And then these same people blame Bettman for pussifying the game??? What a bunch of hypocricy!

[chiefness 0]

Ok...NHL does not need more scoring and anyone who says they do is dead wrong. What kind of NHL scores do you want 10-15 goals a night? A 1-0 game is much more exciting. And you mess with the way a goalie plays they will leave. Luongo already said if they make the nets bigger he will play somewhere else.

And Giguere the only goalie you guys are talking about. Really you have no idea if his pads are large. You just assume. The NHL checks goalie pads so they are regulation size. But everyones arguement is that you are assume from how he looks that he is using larger pads than normal. Maybe its his stance. He gets low and puts his chest on the top of his pads making him look big and compact. Broduer could have a stance like Giggy does and make his pads look bigger. Or maybe its because he has a tight jersey. But ill let you guys keep on assuming if it makes u feel better.

Really...you want to ruin a part of this great game than change the size of goalie pads thats cool. Thats why I say you might as well make the players use a stick with no flex or curve...even the playing field allitle bit. One of you go out and play goalie then maybe ill take your post allitle serious. But all of you are just assuming how it is with biased posts.

[DenJ91 0]

Ok...NHL does not need more scoring and anyone who says they do is dead wrong. What kind of NHL scores do you want 10-15 goals a night? A 1-0 game is much more exciting. And you mess with the way a goalie plays they will leave. Luongo already said if they make the nets bigger he will play somewhere else.

And Giguere the only goalie you guys are talking about. Really you have no idea if his pads are large. You just assume. The NHL checks goalie pads so they are regulation size. But everyones arguement is that you are assume from how he looks that he is using larger pads than normal. Maybe its his stance. He gets low and puts his chest on the top of his pads making him look big and compact. Broduer could have a stance like Giggy does and make his pads look bigger. Or maybe its because he has a tight jersey. But ill let you guys keep on assuming if it makes u feel better.

Really...you want to ruin a part of this great game than change the size of goalie pads thats cool. Thats why I say you might as well make the players use a stick with no flex or curve...even the playing field allitle bit. One of you go out and play goalie then maybe ill take your post allitle serious. But all of you are just assuming how it is with biased posts.

i'm pretty sure i don't agree or like anything you just said...haha

[OsGOD 3]

Once again I bring to the table... option 3

SMALLER PUCKS!

[Hank 0]

i'm pretty sure i don't agree or like anything you just said...haha

Agreed. And what's wrong with wanting an average of 6-7 goals per game? That's how it was between 1960-1995.

And 95% of the time a 1-0 game is boring as hell.

You could watch ten 1-0 games and ten 6-5 games and I guarentee you, you'd be far more entertained with the higher scoring games than shutouts.

What makes me laugh is that all these 'new' fans that grew up on Dead Puck Era hockey have no idea what real hockey looks like.

For decades hockey was played with flow, creativity, toughness and GOALS.

Now they think that hockey was always meant to be played with a 1-3-1 system, goalies that are shaped like giant billboards, and turtle defenses.

Go watch a Wings game from 1987 and then watch a game from 2007. It's not even close in entertainment value. I'll take 60's, 70's, 80's and early 90's hockey any day over the garbage we have to watch now.

In the 80's the top players were on the ice for over 30 minutes a game and made something happen every shift they were out there. Now we have Crosby, who's one of the best players in the world averaging 18 minutes a game and trying to generate offense off the cylce against sumo-goalies, turtle defenses.

People forget that there was a time and age where goals were scored from odd-man rushes (for the young 'ens, google it) or clean shots that the goalie saw and wasn't screened on. And most of those goals weren't considered gaffaws on their part. It was just a 'good' goal.

[dallas27 7]

Shots off pads don't hurt. Take a nice shot to the chest protector though, you feel that. I've been hit in the crotchal area and the cup only does so much. Luckily I conrtrolled the rebound so I could stay in the butterfly while my voice was raised a few octaves.