Bertuzzi Signs 2 Year Deal

[dragonballgtz 273]

Many people here are more interested in screaming "omg this is a bad option" than in sharing what may have been a (realistic) better option.

I would just rather sign our RFA and call it good instead of re-signing Bert with a raise.

[Buppy 1,720]

Many people here are more interested in screaming "omg this is a bad option" than in sharing what may have been a (realistic) better option.

Eric Nystrom + an extra million to spend at the trade deadline >>>>>>>>>> Bert

Winchester, Pyatt, Asham, Malhotra, Miller, maybe Comrie, Higgins, or Tanguay...

Good chance all of them sign for less, some significantly less so we could save a good chunk for the deadline.

[dobbles 252]

Eric Nystrom + an extra million to spend at the trade deadline >>>>>>>>>> Bert

Winchester, Pyatt, Asham, Malhotra, Miller, maybe Comrie, Higgins, or Tanguay...

Good chance all of them sign for less, some significantly less so we could save a good chunk for the deadline.

this is exactly the answer to the several people that say there was no better option. to me it stems from holland saying he wanted another 4th line drake type player. with bertuzzi back, all of a sudden you have another roster spot unavailable. i would much rather see someone like nystrom brought in over bertuzzi and then that would still gives spots to guys like eaves and miller. i was not totally against bringing bert back, but certainly not for the cap hit he now has. that severely limits the wings this year and next year. as has been mentioned, you have guys like lidstrom and holmstrom taking discounts, then you have bert getting a raise even though he has said he would take less to stay in detroit? in the cap era it is all about having players outperform their contract. Z & D did that for several years before their big deals kicked in. currently, other than howard, do we really have any 'value' contracts? sure our top end guys have manageable hits thanks to their super long deals, but its hard to say anyone is a 'value' contract when their hit is 5-7 million.

[Wings17 1]

He just better be more physical out there this year,

and then he will be worth the money spent.

[The Secret 304]

I was turned off by the fact the media made it sound like Bert was toying with the idea of free agency after stating he'd play for Detroit or retire...anyway Glad to have him back although I hoped he would have signed for a bit less.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Eric Nystrom + an extra million to spend at the trade deadline >>>>>>>>>> Bert

Winchester, Pyatt, Asham, Malhotra, Miller, maybe Comrie, Higgins, or Tanguay...

Good chance all of them sign for less, some significantly less so we could save a good chunk for the deadline.

There's still room to bring in a physical 4th line player. Bert's cap hit didn't take that away. Not to mention the fact that

- Winchester: Career High 21 points...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Pyatt: 23 points last season and 19 the one before...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Asham: Hasn't scored more than 24 points in the past 7 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Malhotra: Has never scored more than 35 points his entire career...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Miller: Completely different type of player (who Kenny still could re-sign anyway).....meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Comrie: Hasn't played more than 43 games per season the past 3 years and only once in the past 6 years has he played more than that. Now he's a year older and more brittle.

- Higgins: Currently earns $2.25 million *per* and hasn't played a full season the past 3 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Tanguay: Cap hit of $2.5 million...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

this is exactly the answer to the several people that say there was no better option. to me it stems from holland saying he wanted another 4th line drake type player. with bertuzzi back, all of a sudden you have another roster spot unavailable. i would much rather see someone like nystrom brought in over bertuzzi and then that would still gives spots to guys like eaves and miller. i was not totally against bringing bert back, but certainly not for the cap hit he now has. that severely limits the wings this year and next year. as has been mentioned, you have guys like lidstrom and holmstrom taking discounts, then you have bert getting a raise even though he has said he would take less to stay in detroit? in the cap era it is all about having players outperform their contract. Z & D did that for several years before their big deals kicked in. currently, other than howard, do we really have any 'value' contracts? sure our top end guys have manageable hits thanks to their super long deals, but its hard to say anyone is a 'value' contract when their hit is 5-7 million.

...and why is it Bert's responsibility to be a "value" contract?

[Guest Crymson]

Eric Nystrom + an extra million to spend at the trade deadline >>>>>>>>>> Bert

Winchester, Pyatt, Asham, Malhotra, Miller, maybe Comrie, Higgins, or Tanguay...

Good chance all of them sign for less, some significantly less so we could save a good chunk for the deadline.

There's still room to bring in a physical 4th line player. Bert's cap hit didn't take that away. Not to mention the fact that

- Winchester: Career High 21 points...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Pyatt: 23 points last season and 19 the one before...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Asham: Hasn't scored more than 24 points in the past 7 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Malhotra: Has never scored more than 35 points his entire career...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Miller: Completely different type of player (who Kenny still could re-sign anyway).....meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Comrie: Hasn't played more than 43 games per season the past 3 years and only once in the past 6 years has he played more than that. Now he's a year older and more brittle.

- Higgins: Currently earns $2.25 millipon *per* and hasn't played a full season the past 3 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Tanguay: Cap hit of $2.5 million...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

Come now, NFM! There's no reason to be pushing such sensible information on people! It will remove their ability to make baseless implications with impunity!

Edited June 17, 2010 by Crymson

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Many people here are more interested in screaming "omg this is a bad option" than in sharing what may have been a (realistic) better option.

Not that I'm against the signing, but people can think this is a bad one without having another option in mind. Looking at Homer and Nick who both took around 17% pay cuts, it's kind of easy for people to point the finger at Bert's contract and think it's not a very good one. Personally, I don't mind it. I wish it was for something closer to 1.2-1.4 as rumored, but it is what it is.

My gripe with Bert is his inconsistency. Someone out of the top 6 (Dats, Zetterberg, Mule, Filppula, Huds and Homer) is going to have to be bumped out in order for Bertuzzi to be effective on a regular basis. I have a feeling that Filppula may be brought down to 3rd line center, as that's probably the most logical spot for one of those guys. I could see the lines being something like:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Ritola/Miller-Filppula-Cleary

Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves

Draper

That's some pretty good depth, especially up the middle. The first two lines have a shooter (Huds/Mule) a net presence (Homer/Bert) and a guy who can make plays (Dats/Zett). Bertuzzi showed himself to be a bit of a playmaker himself, so I could see a balance between he and Z in terms of making plays. Either way, it's going to be interesting to see what happens because we seem to have a logjam at the forward position.

[Mors 201]

There's still room to bring in a physical 4th line player. Bert's cap hit didn't take that away. Not to mention the fact that

- Winchester: Career High 21 points...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Pyatt: 23 points last season and 19 the one before...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Asham: Hasn't scored more than 24 points in the past 7 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Malhotra: Has never scored more than 35 points his entire career...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Miller: Completely different type of player (who Kenny still could re-sign anyway).....meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Comrie: Hasn't played more than 43 games per season the past 3 years and only once in the past 6 years has he played more than that. Now he's a year older and more brittle.

- Higgins: Currently earns $2.25 million *per* and hasn't played a full season the past 3 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Tanguay: Cap hit of $2.5 million...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

...and why is it Bert's responsibility to be a "value" contract?

Good post

[kylee 727]

very happy to see bertuzzi resign with the wings @ just under 2 million a year. As much as i like the guy and what he brings im not expecting him to have any more of a mean streak in him than what he had last year. The guy just isnt going to play like the power forward he used to, and thats okay. if he can score 20-25 goals thats an awesome signing and i think its not too unrealistic to expect for Bertuzzi after a good year last year.

[Buppy 1,720]

There's still room to bring in a physical 4th line player. Bert's cap hit didn't take that away. Not to mention the fact that

- Winchester: Career High 21 points...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Pyatt: 23 points last season and 19 the one before...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Asham: Hasn't scored more than 24 points in the past 7 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Malhotra: Has never scored more than 35 points his entire career...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Miller: Completely different type of player (who Kenny still could re-sign anyway).....meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Comrie: Hasn't played more than 43 games per season the past 3 years and only once in the past 6 years has he played more than that. Now he's a year older and more brittle.

- Higgins: Currently earns $2.25 million *per* and hasn't played a full season the past 3 years...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

- Tanguay: Cap hit of $2.5 million...meaning not greater or less than but more importantly *not equal* too Bertuzzi.

...and why is it Bert's responsibility to be a "value" contract?

Point is, we don't need another mediocre scorer. We have enough guys to fill the top 6 for now. Aside from my 'maybes' (and probably Malhotra), the guys I listed should cost around half of what we spent on Bert, allowing to save an extra million for the trade deadline, where it would be worth ~$4 million and possibly allow us to add an elite player for the playoffs.

Even with Comrie, Higgins, and Tanguay, since they're coming off poor years, they might be had for $500k+ less and still offer good offensive potential.

As it is, we have the potential to save a little for later moves OR improve the 4th line/defense. Had we passed on Bert, we could have improved our 4th line, and then at the deadline added someone of impact for the top 6 or a high-end defenseman or smaller improvements to both.

Why don't you tell us why we needed a third-rate has-been who will either play on the third line or push someone better down when we certainly could have added at least that much and most likely better at the trade deadline?

[Guest Crymson]

Even with Comrie, Higgins, and Tanguay, since they're coming off poor years, they might be had for $500k+ less and still offer good offensive potential.

Comrie sucks. He does not produce, he is frequently injured, and he has a terrible attitude.

Higgins was invisible this season, and he is hideous defensively.

Tanguay has been invisible for longer than this season, and he is hideous defensively.

All will still demand in the area of $2m. That's where they are.

Further, I really don't see why you're arguing that we do not need another 3rd line scorer and at the same time arguing that we should have signed a different third line scorer.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Crymson

[Superman54 91]

Bad ass Nystrom wears Uggs not only once, but several times when I have been working. ya i f**kin know! please no, he's a dick.

[newfy 695]

Bad ass Nystrom wears Uggs not only once, but several times when I have been working. ya i f**kin know! please no, he's a dick.

Good. About time we had someone with an attitude on this team. I hope we sign him, he's a big hitter, fights and can score. A prime Dallas Drake.

[Buppy 1,720]

Comrie sucks. He does not produce, he is frequently injured, and he has a terrible attitude.

Higgins was invisible this season, and he is hideous defensively.

Tanguay has been invisible for longer than this season, and he is hideous defensively.

All will still demand in the area of $2m. That's where they are.

Further, I really don't see why you're arguing that we do not need another 3rd line scorer and at the same time arguing that we should have signed a different third line scorer.

Way to ignore the other 5 guys I suggested.

But I'll admit I wasn't perfectly clear on these three guys. My point was that all of them could offer similar offensive potential, and potentially come cheaper, so if that was the direction we wanted to go, they would be better options, IMO. My preference would be one of the other guys though, hence the comment on improving the 4th line, the emphasis on Nystrom in the first post, the other players I mentioned, and the 'maybe' in front of those three.

But in regards to your points on those three:

None are any worse than Bert defensively, all take fewer penalties so that's at least a plus. Comrie and Higgins have had injury problems, but so has Bert. All of them are 5+ years younger.

Comrie scored only a few less goals than Bert in about half as many games. He made $1.25 last year, and hasn't really done anything to warrant a raise. I don't know about his attitude. He's only 3 years removed from his last 20+ goal season. (His 3rd in a row, including 1 30 goal season)

Higgins is also 3 years removed from a career best 27 goal season. (Again, it was 3 straight 20+ years) He's also been either a primary or secondary PKer everywhere he's played, so he's not 'hideous' defensively. Try looking at something other than +/-. He also hits a decent amount. He made $2.25 this past year, but after 2 sub-par seasons in a row, he might be available at a discount. We've had some success with Cleary, Miller, and Eaves, Higgins would be another project, but a decent reward if he came cheap enough. He might still command $2M+, that's part of the 'maybe'. He might be next season's Afinogenov. Just not with us.

Tanguay is only 2 years removed from 41 points in 50 games, and 3 removed from being a point+/game player. Not really a goal scorer, but I'd argue that Bert isn't any better at this stage in his career. In the past 6 years, Bert has played 382 games, and scored 92 goals (0.24/game). Tanguay has played 429, scored 120 (0.28/game). He's also better at pretty much everything else. Little chance he would come (here in particular) for less than Bert, but again you never know.

All three are younger options with similar talent, who might have been available cheaper than Bert. Again, I would have preferred just a 4th-liner, but if we really wanted to go with a scorer, we could have at least waited to see what our other options were, and if we could have gotten something similar (or better) for less. But now we're stuck with Bert for 2 years, so not only do we risk missing out on someone this year, but next year as well.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Comrie sucks. He does not produce, he is frequently injured, and he has a terrible attitude.

Add into that he is engaged to Hilary Duff *shudders*

[dobbles 252]

...and why is it Bert's responsibility to be a "value" contract?

never said it was. that is hollands job. and IMO he blew it with this signing. if he couldn't get bert to sign for less he should have let him walk.

though bert set himself up for any ribbing he personally gets because of all of his statements about wanting to stay here and also being willing to play for less.

[Carman 387]

Bertuzzi deserves every cent of that contract.

How can this deal possibly be classified as "blew it" at this time?

You aren't going to find a player that has Bertuzzi's size and skill for this much money.

[Guest Crymson]

Way to ignore the other 5 guys I suggested.

They're all grinders who won't score anywhere near 20 goals. NFM summed it up fairly well. I quoted his post in response to your original.

Comrie scored only a few less goals than Bert in about half as many games. He made $1.25 last year, and hasn't really done anything to warrant a raise. I don't know about his attitude. He's only 3 years removed from his last 20+ goal season. (His 3rd in a row, including 1 30 goal season)

Higgins is also 3 years removed from a career best 27 goal season. (Again, it was 3 straight 20+ years) He's also been either a primary or secondary PKer everywhere he's played, so he's not 'hideous' defensively. Try looking at something other than +/-. He also hits a decent amount. He made $2.25 this past year, but after 2 sub-par seasons in a row, he might be available at a discount. We've had some success with Cleary, Miller, and Eaves, Higgins would be another project, but a decent reward if he came cheap enough. He might still command $2M+, that's part of the 'maybe'. He might be next season's Afinogenov. Just not with us.

Tanguay is only 2 years removed from 41 points in 50 games, and 3 removed from being a point+/game player. Not really a goal scorer, but I'd argue that Bert isn't any better at this stage in his career. In the past 6 years, Bert has played 382 games, and scored 92 goals (0.24/game). Tanguay has played 429, scored 120 (0.28/game). He's also better at pretty much everything else. Little chance he would come (here in particular) for less than Bert, but again you never know.

And yet you're arguing that these younger players who you feel are better than Bert will be cheaper than he is. Bravo. This is just like people arguing that other teams would want to pick up our garbage in return for good dividends; they bash the players they don't like---i.e. Lebda, Meech, etc.---and want them traded, and then spend time going over the good qualities of those players that would supposedly make them attractive to other teams.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Crymson

[VM1138 1,921]

Point is, we don't need another mediocre scorer.

We need all the scoring we can get. This was made obvious last year. Bertuzzi, even with the raise, is a steal compared to comparable players in the league. Now, consider he's had a confidence-building, healthy year where he made a positive impact on a team, in an environment that welcomed him and a fanbase that overall has accepted him. I think all that adds to the potential to have another good year next year as he gets more comfortable in his role and in the city and with the fans.

Not to mention he'll have a lot better talent to work with.

[egroen 384]

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth. Bertuzzie is a steal at his cap-hit, just like Samuelsson was at his when be was here - despite constant bitching about him (including me) - but guys at the $1 - 3m range bring just as many faults as they do assets, or else they would be paid a hell of a lot more.

So is a big-bodied skilled player with inconsistent but clutch scoring and even a decent two-way game worth a penchant for giveaways and bad penalties?

Or would you prefer someone who was a bit faster, but is more likely to score half as many points?

At that price give me A player like Samuelsson or Bertuzzi every time... And at least Bertuzzi will drop the gloves.

[Buppy 1,720]

They're all grinders who won't score anywhere near 20 goals. NFM summed it up fairly well. I quoted his post in response to your original.

And yet you're arguing that these younger players who you feel are better than Bert will be cheaper than he is. Bravo. This is just like people arguing that other teams would want to pick up our garbage in return for good dividends; they bash the players they don't like---i.e. Lebda, Meech, etc.---and want them traded, and then spend time going over the good qualities of those players that would supposedly make them attractive to other teams.

We need all the scoring we can get. This was made obvious last year. Bertuzzi, even with the raise, is a steal compared to comparable players in the league. Now, consider he's had a confidence-building, healthy year where he made a positive impact on a team, in an environment that welcomed him and a fanbase that overall has accepted him. I think all that adds to the potential to have another good year next year as he gets more comfortable in his role and in the city and with the fans.

Not to mention he'll have a lot better talent to work with.

With the return of Hudler and the odds favoring a much healthier lineup, the offense should already be much better than it was last season. Add to that the fact that as long as we are healthy, someone like Bert or Flip is going to be on the third line, and missing out on PP time, and thus not scoring up to their full potential; then the difference in offense between someone like Nystrom and Bert is negligible. 5-6 goals isn't going to mean anything.

Furthermore, you're both ignoring the main reason for not signing Bert right now; the cap savings. We had an opportunity to be ~$2 million under the cap while still icing a solid team capable of rolling four lines. The trade deadline is roughly 3/4ths of the way through the season, so that money would be worth $8 million in salary at that point. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to add someone like Semin (some rumors have him heading out of Washington) for a playoff run? Or maybe a big name defenseman? Or possibly a goalie if Howie falters and Ozzie can't pick up the slack? Or a couple extra players to shore up any weaknesses that develop?

Even if we really think we need another borderline top-6 'scorer', why not at least wait until free agency opens to explore what other options are out there? Especially considering that Bert himself said he wasn't interested in signing anywhere else. Could get a better deal? Who knows. Now we'll just have to watch what other teams can get. Bert was coming off 44 points in 66 games, and we got him for $1.5. Willy for the same after a 19g, 48 point season. After two poor years, Afinogenov signed for $800k. Prospal went for $1.1 after 19g/45 points. Even Comrie, after just one bad year, signed for $1.25. You act like it's unprecedented for someone to sign a 'bargain' deal. Signing Bert now, and for a two year deal, is essentially a statement that Holland doesn't think we can improve this group of forwards in the next two years. Unless we get a big jump in the cap, or blow up the roster, we don't even have the option of any meaningful changes, whether it turns out we need them or not.

I'm not saying this move is destroying the team or will for sure prevent us from winning anything. I love Kenny and still think he's the best in the game. But I think we had more options, and better options. I think this time he made a mistake.

[eva unit zero 271]

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth.

Quit going back and copying what I was saying weeks and months ago. It's not nice.

[xtrememachine1 795]

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth.

Bert was not worth twice that. That means he would make more than Homer, as much as Filppula and almost as much as Franzen. People on this board keep talking about him getting 50-60 points next year, he hasn't had over 44 points in 4 years and its not like he's getting younger (or better).

[Guest 26basslines]

Pretty much everyone has forgotten Bertuzzi was still being paid from his buyout from Anaheim - which was the only reason Bertuzzi was willing to sign for $1.5m in the first place, when he was easily worth twice (at least he was being paid it). That money went bye-bye this year, so you can't blame him for wanting to get paid even remotely close to what be is worth. Bertuzzie is a steal at his cap-hit, just like Samuelsson was at his when be was here - despite constant bitching about him (including me) - but guys at the $1 - 3m range bring just as many faults as they do assets, or else they would be paid a hell of a lot more.

.

Bertuzzi signed a 2 year, 8 million dollar deal with Anaheim in 2007.

In the summer of 2008 they bought him out, and he received $2.66 million.

He received that money for the 2008-2009 season when he played for Calgary. He had already gotten his buyout money from Anaheim a year prior to signing with the Wings.