Chara's hit on Pacioretty

[toby91_ca 620]

Here are the facts:

- no one can know the intent, anyone suggesting Chara purposely put him into the stantion or anyone suggesting it was purely an accident are simply wrong, they really don't know one way or another. There is no way the video can show this.

- if the player did not get hurt like he did, it would be a 2 minute penalty and no one would be talking about this at all. Because he got hurt, I agree that they probably needed to assess a major and game.

My opinion, I think "results", meaning whether the player is hurt and extent of injury should be factored in to any discipline, but I think it is getting too much weight. I would place more weight on the act itself and in this case, it's hard to judge. I'd probably give him 2 games (simply because of the result). If you compare the Bertuzzi incident to what that Islanders player did against the Pens (not Gillies), it's not all that different, but the results were. Bertuzzi got signficant time (some pleaded for life time ban or longer than what he got) and the Islanders player only got 3-4 games I think. In those situations, I agree for longer time for Bertuzzi because of factoring in results, but I wouldn't place as much weight on that as they currently do.

[e_prime 1,936]

I can't believe people are acctually saying this was not dirty! I mean come on! If this was Datsyuk we wouldn't be debating if it was right or wrong! Chara IS a dirty player and he should miss rest of season plus playoffs. This league is ridiculous... one day someone will die on the ice and its not going to be Colin Campbell or other ******* who are going to justify, but the police will. This was clearly intentional! This is not hockey! Players have no respect for each other.

CANCEL

No. We'd be more upset because it is "our" player.

Slappies excluded. Most, if not all of us, would still have the same opinion on the hit.

If it were clearly intentional, we wouldn't be discussing it.

It is hockey. There is hitting in hockey and sometimes it has unfortunate results.

I'm not even touching your last sentence.

Does there need to be intent to injure someone?

"I Didnt Mean It" defense only works for 8 yr old who put gum in their sisters hair...... Man up and take responsibility for your ACTIONS!

EDIT* Ill Debate the " I didnt mean it " defense on Demers too. he had plenty of time to NOT throw that punch!

I mean, I don't see the intent to drive him into the glass like that.

He doesn't ride him into the glass.

He finishes his check. Questionable if, as everyone says and thinks, he knows exactly where he is on the ice and what'll happen if he finishes his check.

It's an unfortunate, but not malicious hit.

Edited March 9, 2011 by e_prime

[wingslogo19 281]

In a dark/damp cave just outside of Philadelphia - Chris Pronger is watching the replay over, and over while thinking to himself "gee - maybe I should try that?"

I'm picturing that right now

[Guest stinky fish taco]

INTENT....is not a factor in actions....

determining 'intent' can and does factor into the suspensions given by the league.

hope that helps.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

That overhead angle shows Chara grabbing him with his free hand, probably trying to slow him down from getting to the puck so his defensive partner would have time to make a play. If not for the stantion it should've been two for interference.

He was against the boards, he could have just rubbed him off, but as soon as the stantion came up he literally shoved him into it. Chara is not a dirty player, but clean players have been known to have mental lapses.

But this thread is going to go the same way as all dirty hit threads go, pro enforcers don't see anything wrong, anti-enforcer see's the world falling down and then the general masses see it as dirty (the poll on HFboards is 60% to 40% calling for a suspension).

More than pro-enforcer or anti-enforcer (I don't consider myself either), two better categories to determine how people view this hit is probably "I dont like Chara" and "I like/have no opinion about Chara."

Or maybe even "I'm bitter he won the Norris over Lidstrom."

Edited March 9, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[seeinred 1,488]

I don't see how this play is even a little bit dirty. Chara interfered with him a little bit, sure, but that's it. If he had ridden him into it the whole way I could see an argument, but not for this.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Dreger Report:

It's likely that Bruins captain Zdeno Chara will be suspended for running Montreal's Max Pacioretty into the turnbuckle which frames the glass near the visitors' bench.The fact Pacioretty was injured on the play and spent the night in hospital will be factored in to todays noon discipline hearing, but anyone expecting more than two or three games may be disappointed.

Unlikely, but what if there's no suspension at all? Reaction to the hit last night was divided between those who believe Chara purposefully directed Pacioretty into the padded post and those who buy the league language of this incident being a "hockey play gone bad."

It's hard to imagine Chara, a highly respected player, would maliciously drive Pacioretty's head into the turnbuckle.

Most important part of this to take into account. The "intent" part of the whole thing. But the whole game Chara seemed to be playing a little ticked off, to say the least.

Edited March 9, 2011 by HankthaTank

[newfy 695]

It was a little late but not really that late and I have for sure seen guys get rubbed out after plays like that without penalties in games before, Pac just got unlucky that the rinks are designed like that. Jack Johnson had a similar hit on Ryan Smith a while back and I dont think there was a suspension?

I would give him a game or 2 just because of the result and to say that you shouldn't be trying to put guys in like that, however people calling for a lifetime ban are ridiculous

[freshy 181]

Unfortunate outcome, but basically the same thing Stuart does multiple times a season when he is beat defensively on a play. Just happened to catch him at a bad part of the rink. Chara interferswith him but with the speed they are moving and Chara's size & strength he ends up planting his dome against the glass. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly think that Chara conciously thought "I'm going to blast this guy into the turnbuckle." The guy was taking a stupid penalty because he was late reacting and the guy was blowing by him.

[e_prime 1,936]

Or maybe even "I'm bitter he won the Norris over Lidstrom."

Most important part of this to take into account. The "intent" part of the whole thing. But the whole game Chara seemed to be playing a little ticked off, to say the least.

...and rightfully so, his team was playing like s***.

Unfortunate outcome, but basically the same thing Stuart does multiple times a season when he is beat defensively on a play. Just happened to catch him at a bad part of the rink. Chara interferswith him but with the speed they are moving and Chara's size & strength he ends up planting his dome against the glass. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly think that Chara conciously thought "I'm going to blast this guy into the turnbuckle." The guy was taking a stupid penalty because he was late reacting and the guy was blowing by him.

This.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

You are stupid. I don't call posters names like this often, but you earned it. Chara and Pacioretty both raced both the puck and took swats with their sticks. Pacioretty knocked it up-ice, with Chara trying to knock it back into the zone. Pacioretty then raced past Chara along the boards, and Chara moved up next to him and slammed him into the boards, and with Pacioretty skating at full speed, put him into the boards and also the stanchion.

Definitely suspension-worthy. It was obvious Pacioretty did not have the puck and Chara would not be able to gain the puck by hitting Pacioretty. It was a dangerous hit and could even qualify under the head-shot rule because Chara pushed him in such a way so that Pacioretty's head would be the direct point of contact with the stanchion.

Hilarious! Somebody needs to read the rule book.

It was a 2 minute interference penalty that got turned into a 5 and a game because of the resulting injury. What more do you want? If Pacioretty gets up after the hit more than half of this board's members start screaming about how awesome the hit was.

[Blaayze 25]

If Pacioretty gets up after the hit more than half of this board's members start screaming about how awesome the hit was.

Who is going to be able to take a hit to the head at that speed and "get up"... Whoever does needs to be taken to some school provided by Dr. Xavier to see if you have an adamantium bone structure.

[e_prime 1,936]

Quality article from Elliott Friedman

Right now, I'm watching more hockey than ever. True story: Last week, my wife said to me, "Do you watch anything besides hockey?" So I turned to Hawaii Five-O and she hated that so much, she said, "Turn it back."

However, the answer is usually a yes. I try to go to movies or read a non-sports book just to get away for a little while. Not lately, though. The games are as compelling as I've ever seen them. Either live or in person, the quality of competition is incredible. So is the speed, power and skill. Players love to compete and many are well aware that if they don't, teams will find someone else who will. Every day, you're guaranteed riveting action.

Last night began with Toronto-Islanders, Buffalo-Pittsburgh and Boston-Montreal. Like many of you, I was horrified to see Max Pacioretty carried off on a stretcher. And like many of you, I was relieved to hear he had movement in his extremities, although he must deal with hockey's current danger - the concussion.

Thanks to the Twitterverse, reaction was instantaneous. Canadiens fans wanted Zdeno Chara arrested, while Bruins supporters dismissed it as a love tap (as usual, the most gutless were profane in their disagreement, secure in the knowledge they could safely slur over the Internet). People without Montreal or Boston logos in their avatars lacked any kind of consensus. And after watching several different replays many different times, I can't say Chara deliberately tried to injure Pacioretty.

But that's the NHL's biggest problem right now. What's made it better than ever has also made it more dangerous than ever.

You get one guy listed at six-foot-nine, 255 pounds and arguably the best athlete and strongest player in the league. You get another officially measured at six-foot-two, 196 pounds - although Pacioretty seems bigger - and is no slouch in the physicality department. They're both skating at high speed, chasing a loose puck. Chara's team is down 4-0 and he allows a breakaway if Pacioretty beats him. Yes, there is the obvious bitterness between the two players and teams, but Chara's not stalking his foe like Milan Lucic did with Benoit Pouliot late in the game. (Honestly, did we really need to see that after Pacioretty's injury?)

It's a race for the puck and it happens hundreds of times a night. All it takes is one little thing to go wrong and we're flirting with disaster - like both men heading towards the dangerous glass between the benches.

I thought the referees handled it correctly, giving Chara a five-minute interference penalty and a game misconduct. Ultimately, you are responsible for your actions. But I honestly don't know where Mike Murphy, who will handle supplemental discipline because of Gregory Campbell's presence, should go from there.

It's sensory overload in the NHL. I can't help but think of Pacioretty's parents, terrified in the Bell Centre crowd, watching their son strapped to a stretcher right in front of them. I can't help but think of Troy and Trina Crosby, similarly suffering as children, Sidney and Taylor, battle their respective concussion issues. I can't help but think of Bob Probert's brain, of Keith Primeau's determination to make us take this more seriously, and of Dr. Robert Cantu's insistence that one out of every four fights results in head trauma because guys are sitting in the penalty box instead of being diagnosed.

I'd understand if parents were too scared to let their kids play hockey.

But there are other things I think of too: I think of Dr. Cantu saying there is no proof any hockey or football helmet can really prevent a concussion. I think of Ian Laperriere, knowing that if I'd waited 15 years to compete for the Stanley Cup, I'd go out there too, injuries be damned. In the last three days, two guys who made it to the NHL by fighting - Tie Domi and Shawn Thornton - told The Toronto Sun and The Boston Globe, respectively, that they didn't want to know about the Probert brain research. Would I be any different? To play in the NHL and earn a good living for my family? Probably not.

The respect issue is overblown. There wasn't a lot of respect during the brawling, stick-swinging 1970s or the white-hot rivalries of the '80s (Oilers/Flames, Canadiens/Nordiques) and '90s (Red Wings/Avalanche). Anyone who says yesterday's players were more respectful is kidding themselves.

Sure, there are things that can be done to make the game safer. Equipment, which is more dangerous than preventative, is finally being addressed, although I'd like to see things move much faster. Supplementary discipline could be a lot more consistent and effective. Players who look woozy on the ice could be pulled off for a more detalied, immediate examination.

But the thing I think of most is what OHL commissioner David Branch told CBC Radio's Teddy Katz about two months ago: "We still have too many concussions in our league," even though there's an automatic ejection for a hit to the head.

Is that it?

Is it possible that for all of the talk about preventing injuries and concussions, the real problem is simply the game itself? That the best thing about hockey - the intensely competitive games, the tremendous skill, speed and power of the players - is the real danger? That less interference means greater risk? If Zdeno Chara could put his stick on Max Pacioretty, is this blog even being written?

Hockey's at its best but also its most dangerous. And I admit, I don't have an answer for that.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Who is going to be able to take a hit to the head at that speed and "get up"... Whoever does needs to be taken to some school provided by Dr. Xavier to see if you have an adamantium bone structure.

Players get up after big hits all the time. This is the exception, not the norm.

[e_prime 1,936]

Players get up after big hits all the time. This is the exception, not the norm.

Here's an example of a very similar hit. Same area. Same Team delivering hit. (CONSPIRACY!! )

Spoiler: Tyrell gets up

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20102011,2,957&event=BOS202

Sorry, can't get it to embed. It's Lucic on Tyrell at 19:37 in the 1st period from the B's/Bolts game from March 3rd.

Edited March 9, 2011 by e_prime

[Blaayze 25]

Players get up after big hits all the time. This is the exception, not the norm.

But this isn't a normal "big-hit", he was propelled into the stanchion and goes head first.

[vladdy16 2,154]

But this isn't a normal "big-hit", he was propelled into the stanchion and goes head first.

Which was an unhappy coincidence. I have my fair share of Chara hate, but no way was this intentional and I don't think it deserves anything more than what he's already received.

[esteef 2,679]

Don't like the hit. Looks like Chara not only knew who it was but tried to take a little extra piece of him against the stantion. Sit him a couple and move on.

esteef

[e_prime 1,936]

Pacioretty has at least one fractured vertebrae and severe concussion.

Upon this news, I believe Chara will definitely be suspended.

[13dangledangle 968]

Holy smokes, that was intense! History aside with Chara that hit looked like he knew what he was doing for sure, that is by far the worse "headshot" I have ever seen I think. Is Pacioretty ok?

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Pac's season is most likely over with this news coming out. And to think the people on this board wanted Kostopulous to be out as long as Stuie was. Imagine if they actually implemented that rule with this particular hit.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Unfortunate outcome, but basically the same thing Stuart does multiple times a season when he is beat defensively on a play. Just happened to catch him at a bad part of the rink. Chara interferswith him but with the speed they are moving and Chara's size & strength he ends up planting his dome against the glass. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly think that Chara conciously thought "I'm going to blast this guy into the turnbuckle." The guy was taking a stupid penalty because he was late reacting and the guy was blowing by him.

I honestly don't give a s*** about his intentions at this point. His victim has a broken ******* neck and severe concussion. Did anyone care that Bertuzzi didn't mean to break Moore's neck? Did anyone care that the guys piling on Bert and Moore afterwords almost certainly worsened Moore's neck injury? Nope.

If I plow into the back of a guy's car on the highway my insurance company doesn't give two s***s about my intent.

[plopster 136]

That was probably the most vicious hit I have seen since that guy in the major juniors last year just straight up laid the other guy out. And to end the debate, Chara even says he knew the stantion was coming up. He knew it was going to be a pretty severe impact. Suspension talk aside, Pacioretty probably came within a RCH of being dead on the ice. In no way is that cool. I like a good hard fought game like the next guy, but I never want to see someone with an injury to the neck, spine or head. Those injuries generally don't heal. That is another human being out there. It isn't a video game. Choices like that are permanent. There is no reason to rub him out there, it doesn't effect the play at all. That was not a check or a hit, that was a guy getting pushed or rubbed into harms way. Thats like throwing a guy to the subway tracks. He knew what would happen, though I am sure he did not want him to get hurt like that. But he made a very bad choice and should be sat down accordingly. If he is as sorry for him and wants him to be ok as he says, he will take his suspension. I just hope Pacioretty is ok and can play hockey again....

Edited March 9, 2011 by plopster

[esteef 2,679]

I honestly don't give a s*** about his intentions at this point. His victim has a broken ******* neck and severe concussion. Did anyone care that Bertuzzi didn't mean to break Moore's neck? Did anyone care that the guys piling on Bert and Moore afterwords almost certainly worsened Moore's neck injury? Nope.

If I plow into the back of a guy's car on the highway my insurance company doesn't give two s***s about my intent.

Or that you may be a nice guy.

esteef

[Guest stinky fish taco]

I honestly don't give a s*** about his intentions.

that's nice, but as we've already covered, the league does.