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RusDRW

This team screams for a trade

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If it was a joke, it was a piss-poor joke. Maybe it was the timing. Maybe the delivery. Maybe it just wasn't funny. Maybe you could try a little harder next time? And maybe you should loosen up a bit as well.

I should loosen up a little bit? Why, was I the one ripping on anyone in this forum? Or was someone else doing that to another person?

Yeah...

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clap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gif

Glad someone appreciated that. One of my two fave xkcd strips. :D

The roster limit is 23. After sending down Brunnstrom, the Wings were at 22, hence Nyquist. Nyquist was sent down, and Smith was subsequently brought up.

Ah, okay, that would kill my idea then. Unless all those players coincidentally got injured at once. Otherwise, they would have to actually be sent down, clear waivers and we know that ain't even remotely possible.

So, I'll just get a hammer and smash up some fingers and toes. :D

It's just so frustrating because we know these guys can perform at a high level. We've seen it! I mean, look at Mule's multi-goal games...and then his absolute garbage games as a contrast. This Jekyll and Hyde s*** is just infuriating.

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If Hudler were a foot taller, 30 pounds heavier, playing in a league with 1985 scoring levels on a line with Wayne Gretzky and Gordie Howe, and averaged 25 minutes a game I'm sure he'd get 100 points (but only if you prorate his 13 games between January 15th and February 20th)!

If Hudler were 6-10, 216, and playing with Gretzky and Howe in 1985... I think he'd get closer to 150 or 175. Think about it for a second; he would be like Lindros or Neely; plowing through defenses with ease. And like Kevin Stevens, who was a very good player who had his numbers radically infated by playing with Mario Lemieux.

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"I’m not looking to work the phones for trades at this time," Holland said. "The solutions are in the locker room."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/11/red_wings_ken_holland_solution.html

Not really surprising, in spite of the slump. It's way too early. The ideal is still to be in the playoff hunt and make a big move much closer to the deadline. Unless making the playoffs starts to look in question, I don't see him making an early move.

And since this thread, like many others, has become about Hudler:

Jiri Hudler suffered some damage but avoided a potentially serious injury when his head hit the dasher boards after being shoved by Calgary’s Scott Hannan at 6:35 of the second period Thursday.

Hudler’s visor broke and he needed 26 stitches to close cuts around his left eye. He passed a concussion test and returned in the third period.

"I feel like I was lucky," Hudler said.

Hannan was penalized for holding. If he actually held on the play, Hudler might not have crashed head-first into the boards.

"Thanks for not holding me," Hudler said.

Love him or hate him, he's pretty friggin funny.

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Guest mjtm77   
Guest mjtm77

if you honestly think Cleary deserves/ or should be a top-6 forward... [facepalm]. Hes scored 1 goal all season woopty freaking do. 3 million a year is a million shy of a top-6 forward salary; I would in a heartbeat get rid of Cleary and Hudler if I could. This team needs an overhaul in the forward department... we have in my eyes 2 top-6 forwards Datsyuk and Franzen. Zetterberg has taken a step back big time if you look at tape from in in the 2008 season, and look at tape from last year's playoffs and this season. His play is night and day. I dont consider Cleary "versatile" he's slow, he finishes checks (good) and scores garbage goals ocassionally. Once again he's not worth his money... if thats versatile then so is 80% of the league. He sucks on the PP and PK and he also cant fight worth s***.

Why did I come back to LGW?

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Figure a way to get Moen here. Big gritty PK shut down forward.

Because the solution to all of our scoring problems is to add defensively skilled PK forwards. Helm, Miller, Abdelkader, Emmerton, Cleary, Eaves, Filppula, Dats, and Z just can't cut it defensively.

We have a few players that we've been waiting for to have their "breakout" season. Hudler and Filpula namely. Both are very trade-able pieces and I think the time has come to see what can be put together to bring in someone new for the top 6. I may even consider seeing what interest Mule would get.

2008-09 Jiri Hudler 26g-31a-57pt. His season last year wouldn't be considered a disappointment if not for his 2009 season. Had his 2008-09 season been similar to his previous two seasons, last year would have been "It's regular Hudler, no bigs." and people would be fine with it. Even though he'd probably have made a similar amount.

Because Nyquist is one of the 30 most offensively talented forwards in the world right now. Yeah, that's not the case.

As of 2005, nobody thought journeyman minor-league goalie Tim Thomas would be a starter in the NHL. Now he has two Vezinas, a Conn Smythe, and some are arguing him as a HHOF candidate and one of the best goalies ever.

Hi Apple.

I'd like you to meet Orange.

This is a relevant comparison; go ahead and look up how many forwards posted 70 points last year. About 30. The fact that Thomas is a goalie doesn't make the "he's not in the NHL, he's not an elite player" comparison invalid. The chances of Nyquist popping into the NHL and posting 70 points are so incredibly slim it's ridiculous. Is he better offensively than Franzen? Tavares? Nash? Briere? Heatley? Kovalchuk? These are some of the guys who played a full season and didn't reach the 70 point mark. It's a ridiculous suggestion, just like saying in 2005 that Thomas would win two Vezinas and a Smythe in the span of three years. Joey MacDonald has had a much better NHL career than Thomas had through 2005 - Thomas was 32 and had played 4 games at the start of the season. His career GAA and save pct. were comparable to MacDonald's current levels. MacDonald is 31, and has played 83 games. MacDonald only played one ECHL game, and has otherwise been AHL or NHL. Better than Thomas was at this age. Will he win the Vezina in four years?

I didn't say Nyquist will never hit 70 points. I said he wouldn't do it if he were inserted into the lineup right now. There are only four players on the current roster I think are/will be capable of that level over a full season, and one of them I think is too lazy and fragile to actually sustain that kind of play over a full season, so his chances of doing it are basically nil.

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I didn't say Nyquist will never hit 70 points. I said he wouldn't do it if he were inserted into the lineup right now. There are only four players on the current roster I think are/will be capable of that level over a full season, and one of them I think is too lazy and fragile to actually sustain that kind of play over a full season, so his chances of doing it are basically nil.

It's rare to see you rip on Hudler like that. :cool:

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Because the solution to all of our scoring problems is to add defensively skilled PK forwards. Helm, Miller, Abdelkader, Emmerton, Cleary, Eaves, Filppula, Dats, and Z just can't cut it defensively.

2008-09 Jiri Hudler 26g-31a-57pt. His season last year wouldn't be considered a disappointment if not for his 2009 season. Had his 2008-09 season been similar to his previous two seasons, last year would have been "It's regular Hudler, no bigs." and people would be fine with it. Even though he'd probably have made a similar amount.

This is a relevant comparison; go ahead and look up how many forwards posted 70 points last year. About 30. The fact that Thomas is a goalie doesn't make the "he's not in the NHL, he's not an elite player" comparison invalid. The chances of Nyquist popping into the NHL and posting 70 points are so incredibly slim it's ridiculous. Is he better offensively than Franzen? Tavares? Nash? Briere? Heatley? Kovalchuk? These are some of the guys who played a full season and didn't reach the 70 point mark. It's a ridiculous suggestion, just like saying in 2005 that Thomas would win two Vezinas and a Smythe in the span of three years. Joey MacDonald has had a much better NHL career than Thomas had through 2005 - Thomas was 32 and had played 4 games at the start of the season. His career GAA and save pct. were comparable to MacDonald's current levels. MacDonald is 31, and has played 83 games. MacDonald only played one ECHL game, and has otherwise been AHL or NHL. Better than Thomas was at this age. Will he win the Vezina in four years?

I didn't say Nyquist will never hit 70 points. I said he wouldn't do it if he were inserted into the lineup right now. There are only four players on the current roster I think are/will be capable of that level over a full season, and one of them I think is too lazy and fragile to actually sustain that kind of play over a full season, so his chances of doing it are basically nil.

*Sigh*

Thomas is a goalie. Hudler is not.

Thomas played a leading role in helping his team win a Stanley Cup. Hudler, while he certainly played a positive role in helping his team win a Stanley Cup, was in more of a secondary situation.

So again, hi Apple, I'd like you to meet Orange.

And nowhere did I mention Nyquist about anything, so I'm not sure why you are responding to me about him.

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When gauging this teams top 6 I look at it as Franzen, Z and Datsyuk are legit threats that teams need to game plan for on a given night.

Other top teams in the west have way more fire power plain and simple imo.

Sharks - Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Havlat and Clowe are all on that level of guys who can be game changers

Vancouver - Sedins, Kesler probably have an edge because Kesler is quite a bit better than Franzen if you ask me

Chicago - Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa

LA - Richards, Kopitar, Brown, even Simon Gagne has found his stride again so you might be able to count him in there as well

The wings top 6 just doesnt really have the firepower imo as most of these teams and something needs to be done about that. Once Cleary gets healthy that should help, but hes more of a complimentary guy. To really be a threat the wings really need to add a legit 25+ goal scorer.

It doesnt have to be a Parise, but a Bourque type would work. Or maybe Umberger would be available, the jackets suck and I'm pretty sure his contract is up. He also brings his A game in the playoffs.

It doesnt need to be some dynamic game breaker who will score 40, but I'm not confident in saying anyone outside of Franzen, Datsyuk, or Zetty (maybe Cleary) will be 20+ goal scorers this year.

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When gauging this teams top 6 I look at it as Franzen, Z and Datsyuk are legit threats that teams need to game plan for on a given night.

Other top teams in the west have way more fire power plain and simple imo.

Sharks - Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Havlat and Clowe are all on that level of guys who can be game changers

Vancouver - Sedins, Kesler probably have an edge because Kesler is quite a bit better than Franzen if you ask me

Chicago - Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa

LA - Richards, Kopitar, Brown, even Simon Gagne has found his stride again so you might be able to count him in there as well

The wings top 6 just doesnt really have the firepower imo as most of these teams and something needs to be done about that. Once Cleary gets healthy that should help, but hes more of a complimentary guy. To really be a threat the wings really need to add a legit 25+ goal scorer.

It doesnt have to be a Parise, but a Bourque type would work. Or maybe Umberger would be available, the jackets suck and I'm pretty sure his contract is up. He also brings his A game in the playoffs.

It doesnt need to be some dynamic game breaker who will score 40, but I'm not confident in saying anyone outside of Franzen, Datsyuk, or Zetty (maybe Cleary) will be 20+ goal scorers this year.

Yeah, I think people have a hard time admitting that our top 6 isn't as good as some other teams around the league.

That would have been unthinkable for a long time, when the Wings were more loaded than anybody, but just isn't the case anymore.

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*Sigh*

Thomas is a goalie. Hudler is not.

Thomas played a leading role in helping his team win a Stanley Cup. Hudler, while he certainly played a positive role in helping his team win a Stanley Cup, was in more of a secondary situation.

So again, hi Apple, I'd like you to meet Orange.

Thomas being a goalie makes it an irrelevant example that, as of 2005, people didn't think he was going to ever be a factor in the NHL?

I have to ask a serious question. Are you actively seeking out my posts in threads around LGW and simply acting as if you can't understand what is being said? Because that is what it seems like.

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Thomas being a goalie makes it an irrelevant example that, as of 2005, people didn't think he was going to ever be a factor in the NHL?

In my mode of thinking that one is a goalie and one is a winger, yes it is apple to oranges. In your way of thinking, no it isn't. Both trains of thought are neither right or wrong. Once again though I refer to impact. Not saying that Hudler cannot have a positive effect, but Thomas has made more of an impact than Hudler no matter how much you hype your boy up.

I have to ask a serious question. Are you actively seeking out my posts in threads around LGW and simply acting as if you can't understand what is being said? Because that is what it seems like.

Sorta. However I definitely understand what you are saying. They are sought out to a degree though because most the time your responses are just so far out there in left field.

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Guest Heaten   
Guest Heaten

When gauging this teams top 6 I look at it as Franzen, Z and Datsyuk are legit threats that teams need to game plan for on a given night.

Other top teams in the west have way more fire power plain and simple imo.

Sharks - Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Havlat and Clowe are all on that level of guys who can be game changers

Vancouver - Sedins, Kesler probably have an edge because Kesler is quite a bit better than Franzen if you ask me

Chicago - Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa

LA - Richards, Kopitar, Brown, even Simon Gagne has found his stride again so you might be able to count him in there as well

The wings top 6 just doesnt really have the firepower imo as most of these teams and something needs to be done about that. Once Cleary gets healthy that should help, but hes more of a complimentary guy. To really be a threat the wings really need to add a legit 25+ goal scorer.

It doesnt have to be a Parise, but a Bourque type would work. Or maybe Umberger would be available, the jackets suck and I'm pretty sure his contract is up. He also brings his A game in the playoffs.

It doesnt need to be some dynamic game breaker who will score 40, but I'm not confident in saying anyone outside of Franzen, Datsyuk, or Zetty (maybe Cleary) will be 20+ goal scorers this year.

Legit argument, but Detroit was 1 goal away from being tied with the best scoring team in the league last season. To me, scoring depth is more important than top heavy teams. Problem DRWs had was everyone (not named Lidstrom) went cold at the same time. Its hockey, it happens.

Edited by Heaten

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When gauging this teams top 6 I look at it as Franzen, Z and Datsyuk are legit threats that teams need to game plan for on a given night.

Franzen is no longer a legit threat. Teams have figure him out. All they need to do is play him rough and he turns into a ballerina. Sure he has 5 goals in 12 games and over an 82 game schedule that is 34, but he won't play 82 games, he is too fragile. I cannot tell you how disappointing Franzen has-been (and yes I meant HAS-BEEN) because that is what he is, he peaked in 2008 and 2009 and has been on a downward spiral the last two years. Sad thing is, he has very little trade value, nobody is going to take that Go awful long contract and we are stuck with it hitting us for a cap hit of $3.9M until he is 40. He is making over $5.5M in salary right now as well last year and is nowhere near earning it.

As far as I am concerned he and Hudler are both a waste of salary. Still think they should have re-signed Hossa instead, but at the time I can see why they chose Franzen. Too bad they didn't have a crystal ball too see that after he signed that huge deal he would tank it... Let's hope Kronwall doesn't do the same...

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Legit argument, but Detroit was 1 goal away from being tied with the best scoring team in the league last season. To me, scoring depth is more important than top heavy teams. Problem DRWs had was everyone (not named Lidstrom) went cold at the same time. Its hockey, it happens.

Agreed.

What those teams have in high end scoring, they lack in offensive or defensive depth. Wings had a ton of guys last season with 10 or more goals, and its really nice to know that any line can score. Its nice having 40 or 50 goal guys but not at the expense of depth.

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Agreed.

What those teams have in high end scoring, they lack in offensive or defensive depth. Wings had a ton of guys last season with 10 or more goals, and its really nice to know that any line can score. Its nice having 40 or 50 goal guys but not at the expense of depth.

I agree with this, depth is good, but I think Detroit needs to acquire one if not two LEGIT 40-50 goal threats. Maybe they won't score 50, but they need to be a threat to score every night. Franzen is just no longer that threat. Sad to say, neither is Zetterberg. I sure wish they were, but realty says that they are not...

Edited by LeftWinger

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I agree with this, depth is good, but I think Detroit needs to acquire one if not two LEGIT 40-50 goal threats. Maybe they won't score 50, but they need to be a threat to score every night. Franzen is just no longer that threat. Sad to say, neither is Zetterberg. I sure wish they were, but realty says that they are not...

What team wouldn’t want this? Fact is, Detroit doesn’t have the cap space for two 40 goal scorers or the tradable assets to acquire them. It’s debatable whether they have the players trade for one 40 goal scorer.

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In my mode of thinking that one is a goalie and one is a winger, yes it is apple to oranges. In your way of thinking, no it isn't. Both trains of thought are neither right or wrong. Once again though I refer to impact. Not saying that Hudler cannot have a positive effect, but Thomas has made more of an impact than Hudler no matter how much you hype your boy up.

I never said Hudler made as much of an impact as Thomas. You're putting words in my mouth.

My point was that Hudler absolutely has the skill and ability to score 70-80 points in the right circumstances and has displayed this before at the NHL level. Picking Hudler to score 80 points at some point in the future is much shorter odds than, in 2005, picking Tim Thomas to win two of the next six Vezina trophies.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

I agree with this, depth is good, but I think Detroit needs to acquire one if not two LEGIT 40-50 goal threats. Maybe they won't score 50, but they need to be a threat to score every night. Franzen is just no longer that threat. Sad to say, neither is Zetterberg. I sure wish they were, but realty says that they are not...

I want three Norris-caliber defenders. Hell, I want those three defenders to be the three Norris candidates every season. I'd also like a first line that will put up over 120 goals per season and a second line that can put up at least 100 goals per season, and I'd like a third line composed of Selke candidates.

But I'm not going to get that, because it's outside the bounds of what's realistically possible. And if I were to complain about it, my complaints would have no basis, because expectations of that sort would be very unreasonable.

Edited by Crymson

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