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LeonardSankar

What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?

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And all the prospects you mentioned are middle of the road, second or third line forwards/d men. Smith has the most promise IMO, but having one top D man and a whole bunch of average prospects isn't going to help much. When Datsyuk and Z were coming up, they exceeded expectations and came out of nowhere after being drafted. The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely. Maybe yours is different, and that's fine.. But I stick to my opinion. It's going to be hard to get Parise and Suter here (either one, let alone both). All these ideas you're throwing out are great, sure they would be awesome if they happened. But will they?.. Probably not.

P.S. I'n not sure what poll you are referring to.

Right now Calle Jarnkrok and Teemu Pulkkinen are in their 2nd year of development since their draft date and are putting up even better numbers than Datsyuk or Zetterberg did at their age. The Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't really come out of nowhere either each played 3 years at home developing after they were drafted so the Wings had plenty of time to get a look at them

Then you have prospects like Tverdon, Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul and Mrazek who are all having fantastic seasons in the CHL giving the Wings one of their deepest prospect pools they've had in decades.

As far as that poll, it was done by CBC and was voted on by the players you can see it here. Its also interesting to note how many categories Datsyuk was selected in, on top of that Parise has already said he is his favorite player in the league. If he hits Free Agency Detroit will certainly be one of the favorites to land him.

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:rotflmao:

Either you live in a world where the last 3 NHL drafts didn't happen or you're on meth. The last two drafts have been very, very good by the Wings.

Honestly, you're either or troll or psychologically incapable of grasping reality. Go back and look at the last WJC scoring numbers and check out who was named the tournament's top goaltender. Cross reference that with last year's draft choices by the Wings. While you're at it why not google Hobey Baker and take a look for the names Nyquist and Smith in the list of the top 3 vote getters in the relevant years. Oh, and check out the QMJHL playoff scoring numbers. Hockey's Future has 6 Wings prospects rated 7.5 or higher and 12 listed at 7.0 or higher. 9 of those players are from the last 3 drafts. The worst HF can say is that our prospects with elite skill all have various question marks beside them... well that's exactly what happens when you draft in the bottom third of every round for 20 years. Yet somehow the Wings scouting team has made it work. So either the future is grim and current management is a group of guys who got lucky a bunch of times but are about to roll a bunch of snake eyes or things just might work out.

I'm glad that you claim to share your opinion with 'a lot' of league scouts but I think I'll call bulls***.

Regardless, if you read all the positive news about Wings prospects and still think the future is grim there are 29 other teams you can cheer for.

Judging by the latest NHLPA poll it's clear that Datsyuk is extremely highly though of among players. If it weren't for that we'd probably be in more trouble. It's also a bit worrying that the Devils are still going strong in the post-season but we have to assume that whatever caused Parise to sign his 1 year 'get me out of here' deal is still a factor (disagreement with management?).

Again, everything you've said I already addressed. The Hobey winner this year won't even be playing in the AHL next year.. The WINNER. Not a nominee.. A winner of the award. That doesn't mean a whole lot. Secondly, HF boards mean next to nothing. They had Benoit Pouliot listed as a 9.0B 4 years ago and now he's scoring 40 points a year in Boston. Even if they were accurate.. 7.5D isn't that great of a ranking. It's average, probably second line talent. Which is exactly what I've been saying this whole time. And I go to school with a kid who's dad and uncle are BOTH NHL scouts and being the hockey nut that I am, I'm always picking their brains about teams from across the league. They are both western scouts so I pay more attention to the west but I also know a little but about east. Hockey is like a religion for me. You may not like or agree with what I have to say, but the way you present it makes you look like an arrogant f*** with his head in the clouds. I'm not sure there is ever any bad press about any teams prospects unless there is no glimmer of hope. What do you expect the paper to say? "All our prospects are s*** and we have nothing to look forward to. This whole organization is s***." No. They would never do that. And it's not accurate. But it's true that our prospects are average and that our core of players is old and getting older.

I'm not sure you get to tell me which team I can and can't cheer for. But hey, thanks for reminding me that there are in fact 30 teams in this league. I almost forgot!

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Right now Calle Jarnkrok and Teemu Pulkkinen are in their 2nd year of development since their draft date and are putting up even better numbers than Datsyuk or Zetterberg did at their age. The Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't really come out of nowhere either each played 3 years at home developing after they were drafted so the Wings had plenty of time to get a look at them

Then you have prospects like Tverdon, Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul and Mrazek who are all having fantastic seasons in the CHL giving the Wings one of their deepest prospect pools they've had in decades.

As far as that poll, it was done by CBC and was voted on by the players you can see it here. Its also interesting to note how many categories Datsyuk was selected in, on top of that Parise has already said he is his favorite player in the league. If he hits Free Agency Detroit will certainly be one of the favorites to land him.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg's games also transferred well to the NHL based on skill set alone. I'll shy away from comparing those two to Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen. And by come out of nowhere I was referring to draft position. 6th and 7th rounders who surprised everyone. We don't have that now. We know what the majority of our prospects have to offer. Like I said, I'm not saying every prospect we have is bad or anything. But most of them are average with a ceiling that we have a pretty good idea of already because we've seen what they can do in the minors for years and knowing that numbers drop even lower once you get to the highest of the high in terms of leagues (the NHL), it's pretty plain to see that there aren't any Datsyuk's or Zetterbergs to be had. And it's not surprising.. Those are rare.. rare players to be had. We've been blessed to have guys like that but eventually they were going to get old and lose production.. That's the cycle of life in the NHL and in all pro sports.. Save maybe for MLB where it's a money based league IMO. It's just time I think. It will do us good to rebuild in a few years.

Oh.. and I followed the link to the poll I saw Chicago and Detroit. Then I saw Montreal and Toronto and I laughed and clicked the red 'x' lol. But yes, Parise has said he admires the organization and all that. He's also said it about Minnesota and NJ.. It's all talk. In the end it means very little, if anything.

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Well of course it is.. But it's no longer THE place. That's what most people here don't realize. They think it's going to be ever so easy to entice Parise and Suter to come here. There are other things and other factors they will consider. Having a "winning tradition" is all well and good. As is having a couple players who have done great things in their careers (even if they are on the back end of them). But at the end of the day, they are going to be hotly contested FA's and we know Holland won't overpay. He never has and never will, even if it's necessary. And I don't blame him, it's time to start thinking about rebuilding in a couple years, not just reloading like we've become accustomed to.

And all the prospects you mentioned are middle of the road, second or third line forwards/d men. Smith has the most promise IMO, but having one top D man and a whole bunch of average prospects isn't going to help much. When Datsyuk and Z were coming up, they exceeded expectations and came out of nowhere after being drafted. The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely. Maybe yours is different, and that's fine.. But I stick to my opinion. It's going to be hard to get Parise and Suter here (either one, let alone both). All these ideas you're throwing out are great, sure they would be awesome if they happened. But will they?.. Probably not.

P.S. I'n not sure what poll you are referring to.

Have fun with your pessimism, then.

Edited by Crymson
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Its really disgusting how spoiled some so called fans behave.

Suter and Parise is nuts but Suter, Parise and making a play for Weber is just out of words. Maybe some people are too young remembering the death Wings era and our turnover only happened because Ilitch took over and created a winning culture with deep pockets for this storied original 6 franchise. In Hockey you can't say something like this is THE and the only place, not everyone likes playing in a big market enviroment with huge expectations. Its only early May and people are already calling for things "Parise and Suter or bust" so if we get either one its bust? One thing for sure Kenny will not go crazy but I fully expect him to overpay for either one and I'm completely fine with that.

Are we an attractive place for free agents? Sure we are an original 6 franchise, the most succesful team since two decades and our players are threatened very well but lets not ked ourselves here others team are looking for shakeups too (Vancouver, Pittsburgh, Boston, Philly with the Pronger situation to name some topdogs in the house) on top of that rising beasts like Nashville will be looking to ice an even better roster next season.

Personally I have some high hopes in terms or roster improvement if we can reload on the fly fine if not I'm more than ready to watch our young promising guns Smith, Nyquist and Jurco grow to the next level.

Honestly I hate winning team bandwagoners if you love your team, you do it thorugh the good times and even more so in bad times because thats what real fans do! You don't change your GF because he is sick or there are some relationship problems you work on it and love her even more, same with your hockeyteam. Sadly, I'm over 9.000 miles away from the Joe so I probably will never see them live but would pay a lot of money to do so.

That said if we can improve in terms of toughness and size that would be a step in the right direction even if we don't land Suter or Parise.

Edited by frankgrimes
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Datsyuk and Zetterberg's games also transferred well to the NHL based on skill set alone.

Thats not what people said before Datsyuk came over to North America. His best season in his days back home was 26 pts and he was a long shot to make the team. Maybe Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen will take their game to another level next year. All I'm saying is wait until these guys move over to North America before you judge them.

I'll shy away from comparing those two to Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen. And by come out of nowhere I was referring to draft position. 6th and 7th rounders who surprised everyone. We don't have that now. We know what the majority of our prospects have to offer. Like I said, I'm not saying every prospect we have is bad or anything. But most of them are average with a ceiling that we have a pretty good idea of already because we've seen what they can do in the minors for years and knowing that numbers drop even lower once you get to the highest of the high in terms of leagues (the NHL), it's pretty plain to see that there aren't any Datsyuk's or Zetterbergs to be had. And it's not surprising.. Those are rare.. rare players to be had. We've been blessed to have guys like that but eventually they were going to get old and lose production.. That's the cycle of life in the NHL and in all pro sports.. Save maybe for MLB where it's a money based league IMO. It's just time I think. It will do us good to rebuild in a few years.

I agree superstars are rare, especially when you don't get to pick in the top 20 picks but how can you tell that none of those guys I mentioned wont turn into superstars? Unless you're talking about different prospects than me, none of them have played a single game in the minors. They are playing in Junior or in Europe and all of them are putting up better numbers than Datsyuk did in his development. I'm not saying these guys will become better than or even as good as Datsyuk but the potential is there.

Oh.. and I followed the link to the poll I saw Chicago and Detroit. Then I saw Montreal and Toronto and I laughed and clicked the red 'x' lol.

So you disregard the opinion of even NHLers when you don't agree with it? Its not like CBC made up the results, that's the opinion of the players

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Oh.. and I followed the link to the poll I saw Chicago and Detroit. Then I saw Montreal and Toronto and I laughed and clicked the red 'x' lol. But yes, Parise has said he admires the organization and all that. He's also said it about Minnesota and NJ.. It's all talk. In the end it means very little, if anything.

All this talk about teams prospects came up because you said "I don't see why either one would sign with the wings", yet here is a poll done by the players this past year where the 2nd most desired place to play is Detroit and you disregard it. Whatever the players reasons may be, actual NHL players said they would like to play in Detroit. The consensus among the players seem to think Detroit is still a good destination to play and have a chance to win the Stanley Cup and they're right. We still have Datsyuk and Zetterberg in their primes, a good, young, up and coming goaltender, possibly the greatest defenseman of all time, strong ownership, good coaching, smart front office, great scouting and a long history of winning.

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All this talk about teams prospects came up because you said "I don't see why either one would sign with the wings", yet here is a poll done by the players this past year where the 2nd most desired place to play is Detroit and you disregard it. Whatever the players reasons may be, actual NHL players said they would like to play in Detroit. The consensus among the players seem to think Detroit is still a good destination to play and have a chance to win the Stanley Cup and they're right. We still have Datsyuk and Zetterberg in their primes, a good, young, up and coming goaltender, possibly the greatest defenseman of all time, strong ownership, good coaching, smart front office, great scouting and a long history of winning.

Yeah and it was only 13 percent of all players. That's all well and good, and of course Detroit is a good destination.. But it isn't the one and only place. And it looks like a lot of those votes are based on history alone which is why Toronto and Montreal made the list I assume because they are terrible right now. History and tradition are great things to have but when you're not winning and you're franchise clearly is not built for the future.. You're going to have a tough time attracting top guys who can go anywhere they want. Especially if they get offered more money there.

You can have your head in the clouds about all these prospects and think that UFA's are destined to come here all you want but it's going to be a cold slap in the face this summer when none of it materializes.

Edited by centcougar07
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Yeah and it was only 13 percent of all players. That's all well and good, and of course Detroit is a good destination.. But it isn't the one and only place. And it looks like a lot of those votes are based on history alone which is why Toronto and Montreal made the list I assume because they are terrible right now. History and tradition are great things to have but when you're not winning and you're franchise clearly is not built for the future.. You're going to have a tough time attracting top guys who can go anywhere they want. Especially if they get offered more money there.

You can have your head in the clouds about all these prospects and think that UFA's are destined to come here all you want but it's going to be a cold slap in the face this summer when none of it materializes.

Thank goodness we've got you around to protect us from our own hopes.

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Parise

Penner

Prust

Konopka

Wideman

Do-able, $$$-wise? (Too lazy to do the math myself. Apologies.)

A big :thumbup: for Parise, Prust, Wideman.

Penner doesn't interest me much, and Konopka is just a flat out goon who will put us on the PK more than we'd like. I like the idea of Prust because he will put up a decent amount of points on top of grinding, hitting, and fighting. Konopka offers no scoring depth whatsoever, he might get lucky with a small handful of assists but that's about it. I'm more into guys like Prust, Neil, Clutterbuck who can contribute offensively on top of being rough and intimidating.

Hartnell, Backes or Marchand would be ideal adds if it were even a possibility, which it isn't.

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A big :thumbup: for Parise, Prust, Wideman.

Penner doesn't interest me much, and Konopka is just a flat out goon who will put us on the PK more than we'd like. I like the idea of Prust because he will put up a decent amount of points on top of grinding, hitting, and fighting. Konopka offers no scoring depth whatsoever, he might get lucky with a small handful of assists but that's about it. I'm more into guys like Prust, Neil, Clutterbuck who can contribute offensively on top of being rough and intimidating.

Hartnell, Backes or Marchand would be ideal adds if it were even a possibility, which it isn't.

I'm not so keen on Penner myself, but...6'4, doesn't adequately utilize his frame, underachiever - though was once a force...the prototypical Detroit Red Wings power-forward. Point being, I can see Holland signing him. (To be fair, it's hard to argue with his size. And he does have good hands. And he's having a pretty good run right now.)

I'm not sure why I listed Konopka. Brain fart on my part, honest.

So -

Parise

Penner

Prust

Wideman

I don't see us signing both Parise and Suter. I don't know why so many of us are treating it like a done deal. No GM who isn't named Ken Holland wants to see the Wings pick up this summer's two marquee men. The Universe will not allow it, IMHO.

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A big :thumbup: for Parise, Prust, Wideman.

Penner doesn't interest me much, and Konopka is just a flat out goon who will put us on the PK more than we'd like. I like the idea of Prust because he will put up a decent amount of points on top of grinding, hitting, and fighting. Konopka offers no scoring depth whatsoever, he might get lucky with a small handful of assists but that's about it. I'm more into guys like Prust, Neil, Clutterbuck who can contribute offensively on top of being rough and intimidating.

Hartnell, Backes or Marchand would be ideal adds if it were even a possibility, which it isn't.

Konopka's face-off percentage is top 6 in the entire league during the regular season and top 2 in the playoffs. He'd instantly be our best face-off option.

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I think the thing I like about Konopka is, simply, that he's a center. He'd be an upgrade over Emmerton or Abdelkader, IMO. Unless I'm way off in my assessment of him.

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Konopka punches in the face and I'd want something better than Wideman on D.

esteef

...Rozsival?

Babs says Holland probably won't be engineering any trades. So, it's Suter - and then a steep drop-off....

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Konopka's a center who hits,fights,skates,wins face-offs(70% vs.Rangers :ph34r: ),plays hard and brings experience.

All that for cca. $1mil.

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If NJ beats Philly in this series there might not be any Parise FA sweepstakes as it is. I'm of the belief that they (the Devils) will have a hard time signing him to the kind of contract he will demand and just convincing him to stay there in general when the ownership thing is going down the tubes fast. But certainly getting to the conference finals would make it a little more difficult to leave NJ so quickly. So.. Lets go Philly

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Konopka's a center who hits,fights,skates,wins face-offs(70% vs.Rangers :ph34r: ),plays hard and brings experience.

All that for cca. $1mil.

Meaning we won't get him.

We've had opportunities to get him and others like him before. Holland and company don't like these kinds of players. Whether they can contribute offensively or not, we just don't sign guys like Konopka. It's pretty sad.

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Yeah and it was only 13 percent of all players. That's all well and good, and of course Detroit is a good destination.. But it isn't the one and only place. And it looks like a lot of those votes are based on history alone which is why Toronto and Montreal made the list I assume because they are terrible right now. History and tradition are great things to have but when you're not winning and you're franchise clearly is not built for the future.. You're going to have a tough time attracting top guys who can go anywhere they want. Especially if they get offered more money there.

You can have your head in the clouds about all these prospects and think that UFA's are destined to come here all you want but it's going to be a cold slap in the face this summer when none of it materializes.

This is why nobody cant take you seriously. You are making it seem like people wanting to get Suter and/or Parise is them assuming they are going to come here because it is simply Detroit. Nobody believes that.

And last time I checked, the Wings CAN offer more money than anyone else without hurting their roster. They have a lot of room to retool and make themselves better.

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This is why nobody cant take you seriously. You are making it seem like people wanting to get Suter and/or Parise is them assuming they are going to come here because it is simply Detroit. Nobody believes that.

And last time I checked, the Wings CAN offer more money than anyone else without hurting their roster. They have a lot of room to retool and make themselves better.

Clearly you haven't read this and other threads all the way through. There have been several people claiming that Suter and Parise are locks to come here. And even more people who have put up future rosters including the two of them.

The Wings CAN offer AS MUCH as anyone but not more.. There are plenty of teams with 18-20 mil in cap space that will make offers. And my point is that Ken Holland never overpays for players so why would he start now? I know they are going to go hard after Parise and Suter but what happens when other teams offer Parise 8-8.5 Mil? You think Holland will go that high? No chance. Same deal with Suter. The only reason you dislike my opinion is because I don't agree with you and others who think that both of the most sought after FA's in this years class are both going to land here.

Edited by centcougar07
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Clearly you haven't read this and other threads all the way through. There have been several people claiming that Suter and Parise are locks to come here. And even more people who have put up future rosters including the two of them.

You are way over exaggerating.

The Wings CAN offer AS MUCH as anyone but not more.. There are plenty of teams with 18-20 mil in cap space that will make offers. And my point is that Ken Holland never overpays for players so why would he start now? I know they are going to go hard after Parise and Suter but what happens when other teams offer Parise 8-8.5 Mil? You think Holland will go that high? No chance. Same deal with Suter. The only reason you dislike my opinion is because I don't agree with you and others who think that both of the most sought after FA's in this years class are both going to land here.

Most teams can't spend as much and ice a full roster of players, not to mention stay competitive.

Also, no way Parise and Suter command that much in free agency.

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You are way over exaggerating.

Most teams can't spend as much and ice a full roster of players, not to mention stay competitive.

Also, no way Parise and Suter command that much in free agency.

Perhaps a little. But not as much as you think.

And Parise and Suter may not command that much, but they sure as hell will be offered that much by at least a couple teams IMO. That's what happens when you mix a lot of desperate teams with a thin FA class.

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Perhaps a little. But not as much as you think.

And Parise and Suter may not command that much, but they sure as hell will be offered that much by at least a couple teams IMO. That's what happens when you mix a lot of desperate teams with a thin FA class.

I sincerely doubt that.

And even if they don't nab those two, they still have cap space to improve the roster in other ways. They are the ideal situation, but it isn't over if either or both of those two come here.

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