• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
LeonardSankar

What's Kenny Holland's Offseason Plan?

Rate this topic

568 posts in this topic

Yeah I can't possibly see him settling for so little. Especially because your opinion and my opinion of the roster are different. You see a killer roster, a see a roster that will have to claw to make the playoffs next year let alone contend for a cup. We just have too many old players and a lack of stellar NHL ready prospects with which to replace them like we did last time around. We still have a couple years of possible contention but in 2-3 years we're going to drop out of contention and we're going to have to rebuild through the draft.

We add one top 6 player and we are back in Stanley Cup contention.

You are way too pessimistic about the Wings 2-3 years down the road when there will be a lot of chances to make changes to the roster. This year especially.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I can't possibly see him settling for so little. Especially because your opinion and my opinion of the roster are different. You see a killer roster, a see a roster that will have to claw to make the playoffs next year let alone contend for a cup. We just have too many old players and a lack of stellar NHL ready prospects with which to replace them like we did last time around. We still have a couple years of possible contention but in 2-3 years we're going to drop out of contention and we're going to have to rebuild through the draft.

I wasn't referring to our roster. If I was, it's a roster with the likes of Suter, Prust, and Lucic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed.

I gotta be honest here...The Wings have been on a steady decline these past few years...UFA's will take notice, and for some - the grass may look alot greener elsewhere.

Good to see there are still some knowledgeable hockey fans out there that realize the team is aging and declining. We're going to have to rebuild in 2 or 3 years when Datsyuk and Zetterberg aren't producing much anymore and Lids is gone. Dislike my comments all you want but it's the reality and I'm glad to see I'm not the only fan who isn't afraid to be realistic.

I wasn't referring to our roster. If I was, it's a roster with the likes of Suter, Prust, and Lucic.

My mistake. And yeah.. Those would be fantastic additions but you actually have to get them. Getting them all is close to impossible, getting two is unlikely and getting even one is going to be no easy task especially if we're talking Suter. He's going to have a ton of teams after him.

F.Michael likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We add one top 6 player and we are back in Stanley Cup contention.

You are way too pessimistic about the Wings 2-3 years down the road when there will be a lot of chances to make changes to the roster. This year especially.

Adding one single top 6 forward is not suddenly going to make us a cup team. With all do respect, that's just absurd.

I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic. It's not like I don't want the Wings to win now but the reality is this: Declining on ice product/aging core of players + average prospect pool = time to rebuild soon. That's how it works in every pro sport. At least some variation of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why the hell would Zach Parise take 6.5 Million?? He makes 6 Million right now and that was generous of him to take that little. He's an elite talent and this FA class is thin at best. To think he won't get at least 7 is crazy.

Thank you so much for imparting your vast knowledge upon us lowly, unrealistic Wings fans. You can think the Wings are aging and in decline all you want and I wont go so far as to call you a jackass for presenting your opinions as facts but you've got to understand why people get tired of listening to those opinions when you talk down to anyone who doesn't share them with you.

Personally, I think it is entirely possible that Parise and Suter sign for the $6.5-7M that I noted because to me, from what I've read them saying, they are more interested in winning and being on a competitive team for the duration of their deals than just cashing in on a monster paycheck. I'm not guaranteeing it will happen but to just flat out say they are signing for $8M/yr (like a lot of posters claim) without acknowledging the possibility that that may not happen is ridiculous.

Believe what you'd like to believe but don't try to convince me your opinion is fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed.

I gotta be honest here...The Wings have been on a steady decline these past few years...UFA's will take notice, and for some - the grass may look alot greener elsewhere.

The Wings aren't Edmonton. We're one top line forward and a fourth line center away from making Finals. I don't think their "decline" is such a deal breaker.

Adding one single top 6 forward is not suddenly going to make us a cup team. With all do respect, that's just absurd.

I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic. It's not like I don't want the Wings to win now but the reality is this: Declining on ice product/aging core of players + average prospect pool = time to rebuild soon. That's how it works in every pro sport. At least some variation of it.

Really? Because that's the one reason the Wings didn't dominate all year. If you get a top line forward who can go to the net, the Wings puck control style works much better and there's no team that can stop them. Assuming of course that Lidstrom returns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding one single top 6 forward is not suddenly going to make us a cup team. With all do respect, that's just absurd.

I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic. It's not like I don't want the Wings to win now but the reality is this: Declining on ice product/aging core of players + average prospect pool = time to rebuild soon. That's how it works in every pro sport. At least some variation of it.

No, you are being pessimistic.

If Detroit can ink Parise and/or Suter to a long term deal they will be able to retool their roster and add players to keep themselves competitive. Your notion that the Red Wings aren't even close to being a cup team is absurd.

Drake_Marcus likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard Jimmy D say recently that the Wings will not be aggressive on July 1st because the Minnesota Wild are going to be signing Parise and Suter and maybe even trading for Rick Nash. Apparently every player in the NHL wants to play for the Wild because of their blue chip Hall of Fame prospects. We have to get used another Dead Wings Era or Darkness with Harkness because the future is not very good. Datsyuk will be washed up in 2 years, Zetterberg can't even bend over to tie his skate laces with his bad back. Lidstrom will retire because I said so. It's a fact. Why the hell would he want to come back? Especially since he could just sign with the greatest team ever assembled, the Minnesota Wild for a season? Howard is a career back-up goalie. Filppula should not even be in the league. Franzen looks like he should be in Ice Capades. Helm can no longer skate because he was injured. It is a fact because I say so. Abdelkader, Eaves and Miller would not even make the Wild's talent rich roster. Bertuzzi and Cleary are no longer effective. Nyquist and Smith are B level prospects and will have no impact whatsoever. Ericsson and White should not be in the league they are so bad. It's not looking very good for the Red Wings next season. The core is old and slow. They are lazy and they suck. Holland should be fired and Babs should be replaced. I think Mike Modano would be a good replacement because he is from Minnesota. He knows what it takes to win, just like everyone in Minnesota does. They were the best team in the league before injuries hit them. You see no other teams in the NHL had injuries. Only Minnesota did. Had they been healthy, they likely would have won the Cup. I heard that the Wild are very worried that in 20 years time, there will be no sweaters to give to the players because their jerseys will all be retired as they will all be entering the Hall of Fame at once. At least they have time to prepare for it. Minnesota has already declared June to be STANLEY CUP CHAMPION MONTH as they plan on having Cup parades each year for the next 20 years. In fact I just heard that Gary Bettman is instituting new rules but only for the Minnesota Wild in preparation for their sheer future dominance. The Wild will only receive 1 minute power plays. Their opponents are to be staked to 2-0 leads at the start of each game. Also the Wild are not allowed to ever be in 4 on 4 situations. Barack Obama has just issued a statement saying that the White House will be building their very own MIINNESOTA WILD WING. It will be next to the KENNEDY ROOM. He figures that since Minnesota will be winning the Cup each season that they may as well have their own room in the White House. I am hearing that the White House may be changed to the WILD HOUSE. Just remember Wings fans, these are all FACTS because I say they are. No one wants to play for the Detroit Red Wings. EVER!

Edited by Hatethedrake!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding one single top 6 forward is not suddenly going to make us a cup team. With all do respect, that's just absurd.

I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic. It's not like I don't want the Wings to win now but the reality is this: Declining on ice product/aging core of players + average prospect pool = time to rebuild soon. That's how it works in every pro sport. At least some variation of it.

Agreed - although I'm both a pessimist, and a realist :lol:

One player isn't gonna add that much - it'll take a handful IMO...There's not many players under the age of 25 on this roster, or in GR that'll carry this team the way Nick/Dats/Hank has; those 3 are what we have left of any semblance of what was once a "powerhouse" in the NHL, and 2 of those 3 aren't what they were just a few years ago.

At the time I was pleased when Holland inked Bert for 2 more seasons; now after further review it wasn't such a great move - unless of course ya like his antics of taking his toys away from those nasty Preds...What alot of good that did.

centcougar07 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed - although I'm both a pessimist, and a realist :lol:

One player isn't gonna add that much - it'll take a handful IMO...There's not many players under the age of 25 on this roster, or in GR that'll carry this team the way Nick/Dats/Hank has; those 3 are what we have left of any semblance of what was once a "powerhouse" in the NHL, and 2 of those 3 aren't what they were just a few years ago.

At the time I was pleased when Holland inked Bert for 2 more seasons; now after further review it wasn't such a great move - unless of course ya like his antics of taking his toys away from those nasty Preds...What alot of good that did.

Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.

F.Michael likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.

No, not a Dynasty, but FAR better than last season's hot garbage...

F.Michael likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, not a Dynasty, but FAR better than last season's hot garbage...

Only a completely spoiled fan could call last season complete garbage. It's interesting how the very consistent success of the guy (Holland) whom you so revile is what makes you expect so much out of him. Try showing some appreciation.

Drake_Marcus and FlashyG like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.

I know you guys are just trying to be realistic, but honestly, do you realize how much better this Wings team would have been if they had someone who could pot an extra goal every other game this season? A huge chunk of their games were one goal games. I think one forward, if he's the right player, absolutely would make this team a lock for a deep playoff run. And maybe a fourth line center.

dropkickshanahans likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only a completely spoiled fan could call last season complete garbage. It's interesting how the very consistent success of the guy (Holland) whom you so revile is what makes you expect so much out of him. Try showing some appreciation.

didn't say "complete" garbage...but for the most part, outside of the streak, it was hot garbage. Power play was horrendous, penalty kill horrifying, they played very bad on the road all season, defense was very suspect all season, the players who were supposed to help carry this team, disappeared (one to be expected) and for being the "best" team at home, they couldn't win at home when it counted....Hot Garbage. I do appreciate things, but I cannot accept this crap for a team I am so passionate about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real talk. Agreed. It's hard to be realistic without seeming pessimistic in this situation because all anybody is saying is Parise and Suter sign then get a couple more guys, Nyquist comes up and tears it up and bam.. Wings are a dynasty again... Yeah... Ok.

Nobody is calling for a dynasty. They are saying Detroit is still a place players want to play (The last poll put them just a hair under 1st place Chicago under teams players would most want to play for) andwith the amount of cap space Detroit has to work with they can overpay for guys like Parise and even try to entice them with a package deal for the two of them. Not to mention adding some more gritty players and the team that would have been 4th in the conference (if not for St. Louis surprising everyone they would have been in first) if not for key injuries at the worst times will turn into a team that is back to a contender again.

You don't know how good Detroit's younger players are going to be until they get to that level. We have yet to see how much of an impact guys like Smith, Tatar, Nyquist, and others will be until they mature on the Wings roster. Did the same thing to Fil, Franner, Zets, Dats, and Huddles.

FlashyG likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you guys are just trying to be realistic, but honestly, do you realize how much better this Wings team would have been if they had someone who could pot an extra goal every other game this season? A huge chunk of their games were one goal games. I think one forward, if he's the right player, absolutely would make this team a lock for a deep playoff run. And maybe a fourth line center.

Certainly, Parise makes any team better. He's an elite player, even beyond the numbers he puts up. But one player won't make the difference for this team. It's not that simple, especially not in the long term.

F.Michael likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody is calling for a dynasty. They are saying Detroit is still a place players want to play (The last poll put them just a hair under 1st place Chicago under teams players would most want to play for) andwith the amount of cap space Detroit has to work with they can overpay for guys like Parise and even try to entice them with a package deal for the two of them. Not to mention adding some more gritty players and the team that would have been 4th in the conference (if not for St. Louis surprising everyone they would have been in first) if not for key injuries at the worst times will turn into a team that is back to a contender again.

You don't know how good Detroit's younger players are going to be until they get to that level. We have yet to see how much of an impact guys like Smith, Tatar, Nyquist, and others will be until they mature on the Wings roster. Did the same thing to Fil, Franner, Zets, Dats, and Huddles.

Well of course it is.. But it's no longer THE place. That's what most people here don't realize. They think it's going to be ever so easy to entice Parise and Suter to come here. There are other things and other factors they will consider. Having a "winning tradition" is all well and good. As is having a couple players who have done great things in their careers (even if they are on the back end of them). But at the end of the day, they are going to be hotly contested FA's and we know Holland won't overpay. He never has and never will, even if it's necessary. And I don't blame him, it's time to start thinking about rebuilding in a couple years, not just reloading like we've become accustomed to.

And all the prospects you mentioned are middle of the road, second or third line forwards/d men. Smith has the most promise IMO, but having one top D man and a whole bunch of average prospects isn't going to help much. When Datsyuk and Z were coming up, they exceeded expectations and came out of nowhere after being drafted. The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely. Maybe yours is different, and that's fine.. But I stick to my opinion. It's going to be hard to get Parise and Suter here (either one, let alone both). All these ideas you're throwing out are great, sure they would be awesome if they happened. But will they?.. Probably not.

P.S. I'n not sure what poll you are referring to.

F.Michael likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem with this is that you're assuming Parise takes a million dollars less per year just to come here. I don't see that happening. And I think were Parise goes, Suter goes. That's the ***** of it; and we know Kenny Holland won't pony up the dough that other teams will.

Parise and Suter will not take 6.5. It just won't happen.

You're really struggling with the concept of term. Players are willing to take smaller cap hit contracts that are front-loaded and long term. I'm surprised this is news to you...

xtrememachine1 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're really struggling with the concept of term. Players are willing to take smaller cap hit contracts that are front-loaded and long term. I'm surprised this is news to you...

Well - the reality is that these 6 plus year front-loaded deals may become extinct with the next CBA - however the last time I checked July 1st comes before September 15th so there may be some "wiggle room", and grandfather clauses.

My concern is that both Suter, and Parise see Detroit as a team in decline, and opt for a team with whom they feel has a greater number of players in their prime, and not in their twilight.

centcougar07 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The guys in our prospect pool now.. We've had a pretty good look at. We know what they are and aren't capable of and after seeing that and reading everything there is to read in the NHL about prospects, I'm comfortable saying that we don't have much to get excited about in the future. That's an opinion I share with a lot of league scouts and people who follow prospects very closely.

:rotflmao:

Either you live in a world where the last 3 NHL drafts didn't happen or you're on meth. The last two drafts have been very, very good by the Wings.

Honestly, you're either or troll or psychologically incapable of grasping reality. Go back and look at the last WJC scoring numbers and check out who was named the tournament's top goaltender. Cross reference that with last year's draft choices by the Wings. While you're at it why not google Hobey Baker and take a look for the names Nyquist and Smith in the list of the top 3 vote getters in the relevant years. Oh, and check out the QMJHL playoff scoring numbers. Hockey's Future has 6 Wings prospects rated 7.5 or higher and 12 listed at 7.0 or higher. 9 of those players are from the last 3 drafts. The worst HF can say is that our prospects with elite skill all have various question marks beside them... well that's exactly what happens when you draft in the bottom third of every round for 20 years. Yet somehow the Wings scouting team has made it work. So either the future is grim and current management is a group of guys who got lucky a bunch of times but are about to roll a bunch of snake eyes or things just might work out.

I'm glad that you claim to share your opinion with 'a lot' of league scouts but I think I'll call bulls***.

Regardless, if you read all the positive news about Wings prospects and still think the future is grim there are 29 other teams you can cheer for.

Well - the reality is that these 6 plus year front-loaded deals may become extinct with the next CBA - however the last time I checked July 1st comes before September 15th so there may be some "wiggle room", and grandfather clauses.

My concern is that both Suter, and Parise see Detroit as a team in decline, and opt for a team with whom they feel has a greater number of players in their prime, and not in their twilight.

Judging by the latest NHLPA poll it's clear that Datsyuk is extremely highly though of among players. If it weren't for that we'd probably be in more trouble. It's also a bit worrying that the Devils are still going strong in the post-season but we have to assume that whatever caused Parise to sign his 1 year 'get me out of here' deal is still a factor (disagreement with management?).

Zeowingsfan and xtrememachine1 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should be clearer here: this summer isn't "OMG SUTER AND PARISE OR BUST!". It's: "significant roster improvement or bust". Suter and Parise aren't the only players in the league. There are plenty of great forwards and defensemen who can be traded for.

xtrememachine1 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard Jimmy D say recently that the Wings will not be aggressive on July 1st because the Minnesota Wild are going to be signing Parise and Suter and maybe even trading for Rick Nash. Apparently every player in the NHL wants to play for the Wild because of their blue chip Hall of Fame prospects. We have to get used another Dead Wings Era or Darkness with Harkness because the future is not very good. Datsyuk will be washed up in 2 years, Zetterberg can't even bend over to tie his skate laces with his bad back. Lidstrom will retire because I said so. It's a fact. Why the hell would he want to come back? Especially since he could just sign with the greatest team ever assembled, the Minnesota Wild for a season? Howard is a career back-up goalie. Filppula should not even be in the league. Franzen looks like he should be in Ice Capades. Helm can no longer skate because he was injured. It is a fact because I say so. Abdelkader, Eaves and Miller would not even make the Wild's talent rich roster. Bertuzzi and Cleary are no longer effective. Nyquist and Smith are B level prospects and will have no impact whatsoever. Ericsson and White should not be in the league they are so bad. It's not looking very good for the Red Wings next season. The core is old and slow. They are lazy and they suck. Holland should be fired and Babs should be replaced. I think Mike Modano would be a good replacement because he is from Minnesota. He knows what it takes to win, just like everyone in Minnesota does. They were the best team in the league before injuries hit them. You see no other teams in the NHL had injuries. Only Minnesota did. Had they been healthy, they likely would have won the Cup. I heard that the Wild are very worried that in 20 years time, there will be no sweaters to give to the players because their jerseys will all be retired as they will all be entering the Hall of Fame at once. At least they have time to prepare for it. Minnesota has already declared June to be STANLEY CUP CHAMPION MONTH as they plan on having Cup parades each year for the next 20 years. In fact I just heard that Gary Bettman is instituting new rules but only for the Minnesota Wild in preparation for their sheer future dominance. The Wild will only receive 1 minute power plays. Their opponents are to be staked to 2-0 leads at the start of each game. Also the Wild are not allowed to ever be in 4 on 4 situations. Barack Obama has just issued a statement saying that the White House will be building their very own MIINNESOTA WILD WING. It will be next to the KENNEDY ROOM. He figures that since Minnesota will be winning the Cup each season that they may as well have their own room in the White House. I am hearing that the White House may be changed to the WILD HOUSE. Just remember Wings fans, these are all FACTS because I say they are. No one wants to play for the Detroit Red Wings. EVER!

Nonsense. The Ice Capades require effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0