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wingnut4013

Everyone chill out!

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I think this thread is just a tad melodramatic. I don't think anyone is jumping off the bridge and going off to root for Pittsburgh and HWSNBN. I think what people are doing is looking at the team as presently constructed, noting that it has some serious holes in comparison to last season's team, and the season before that, and realizing....we're in trouble. Not that we're going to go 0-48, but that we're going to have more of these games than not.

Maybe the thread starter needs to relax, instead of telling the rest of us to.

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The depressing thing is that after the snub from Suter and Parise this summer, I have lost faith in Detroit's ability to lure UFA's. The Wings have gotten progressively worse each season since 2009.

If the Wings don't take a step forward this season (looks bad right now), i'd like to see Illitch announce a new arena project and to throw the bank at a big name this coming summer. At least get some of the young guys up and playing - give people something to look forward to. Next season they've got nearly 20 million to play with and some interesting UFA's to throw money at. They have Brunner, Flip, and Howard to resign. .

As for this season, the Wings are handcuffed. The rest of the league knows they are desperate for a D-man ( i cant believe Colaiacavo makes 2.5 million for the next 2 years, ugh), and the Wings have nothing to offer in return. I still think the Wings can turn out a respectable season and make the playoffs, but they are going to have to do it with the roster they already have.

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I think it's pretty sane and ok to be very upset about that first game. That game pissed me off.

Being upset about the first game is not the same as saying "Oh my gosh, the whole season is going to be like this!" That game yesterday was absolutely horrible. It doesn't matter if it was the first game, last game, or anywhere in between. The Wings simply did not show up. We can use every excuse in the book, but at the end of the day they lost. The Blues did not have any sort of special attention, they didn't have anything extra that the Wings didn't have, as far as knowledge or training. The fact is the Blues beat us. If you watched the game, they beat us bad.

The concern of mine is: Why didn't the Wings show up? Why was it not the other way around (Wings shutting out the Blues)? The Blues didn't bring any excuses for winning. The Wings looked like a minor league team playing an NHL team. It was very bad. That is a perfectly just cause to be angry.

The game is behind us now, so we have to look forward. I know the team is better than the way they played yesterday. But I'm still upset that they came in and played that poorly for game one. They could not get a steady possession together to make anything happen. The defense failed us and the offense failed us. It was overall just a bad team effort. I'm no hockey expert, but it's tough for me to point at any position or player and say it's that person's fault. The whole team sucked. Although, in my opinion, I must say Jimmy Howard sucked the least, and I believe the reason they swapped goaltenders was just to save face for Howard and attempt to give the team a second wind. Unfortunately, it didn't work.

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No it won't. This will only go away when we have a good run in the playoffs and prove we're a legit team again. We've been going backwards since 2009 due to players aging/retiring/leaving via UFA/signing lifetime contracts and no longer giving a damn. So now we're relying on a D-corp full of 3rd pairing players, and hoping for a bunch of rookies to win all 3 Calder nominations.

The signs have been there for all to see, especially in the playoffs. 2 successive losses to the Sharks where only Dats and Jimmy made it look respectable, then the Nashville series were even they couldn't hide the teams issues. Its still to early to predict were we'll finish, somewhere between 6 and 10 IMO, but I keep saying it, we're stuck in the NHL Poverty trap. Not good enough to challenge, not bad enough to rebuild through the draft.

Hey! You there! Stop being realistic!

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well hopefully the coaching staff lined them up against the boards for hitting drill then after they couldnt feel their shoulders made them shoot til they couldnt move their entire upperbody.

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Because Tootoo made things any better last night. They didn't lose because they were out hit, they lost because they got out played in every way conceivable.

Not saying they lost because they were out hit. To me it looked like we got pushed around A LOT. We need more guys who will push back, like Tootoo.

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Not saying they lost because they were out hit. To me it looked like we got pushed around A LOT. We need more guys who will push back, like Tootoo.

How many times did we see White, or Filppula, or even Hank simply get pushed from behind and knocked down and had the puck taken from them? It was sad.

They played slow and showed little awareness. Unfortunately this team has morphed into small skilled forwards who can't really skate.

The Blues DO NOT...and I repeat....DO NOT have more skill than the Red Wings. But the Predators set the blue print for overcoming a skill mismatch against the Wings: skate fast and hit hard.

Our guys need to play with more energy and speed. I'm just not sure if they are capable of doing that though....

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ZDB are suffering from the same symptoms Hudler had after returning from Europe: They forgot what it's lke to get hit every few strides, not used to no time and no space, not used to the pace of the NHL game. In everyone of those highlight clips of Z and B in the frikin silly little league (for God's sake), there is absolutely zero contact, and tons of ice to play in, and lame ass DMan spectating and hoping for an autograph along the way.

Their legs may be in shape, but that league was like semi retirement for those guys, they got away with things they'd never be able to do in the NHL. It hurt their on ice work ethic, and hopefully they'll recover faster than Hudler did.

Pretty good analysis...I really hope this is only a short-term problem.

Seems like it would have been to the players' benefit to organize some kind of interm league in North America. Whoops.

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Pretty good analysis...I really hope this is only a short-term problem.

Seems like it would have been to the players' benefit to organize some kind of interm league in North America. Whoops.

So they've both played in NA for 10 plus years, but they've forgotten the style after a few months in Europe?

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It's 1 game, 47 to go, but honestly, I'm good either way if we have a good or bad season. I'm not one of these, "Just make the playoffs, anything can happen" fans. If losing Lidstrom is going to be this big of a blow, then why not just reload through the draft?... Next game is @ Columbus, so everything could be right in Hockeytown again by tomorrow night.

By the way, I laughed when I saw the Canucks score. All the Schneider #1 and trade Luongo talk and Schneider he allows 5 goals on 14 shots!

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What makes you think Filppula is going to give us a good return? So Selanne likes him. Teemu is also 41 and not likely to be playing much longer. So the Ducks are going to trade for him so Teemu can play with is buddy when they don't know how much longer he'll play? So he sucks, lets trade him, and we'll get someone really good in return? What value does Cleary have? He's old, often injured and overpaid. Emmerton? What picks and prospects?

I always have to laugh when fans think our players suck, but yet they think they're incredibly valuable to someone else. If small skilled players aren't the "in" thing, why would other teams want them?

I never said that list of players suck (besides Franzen, Kindl, Quincey) I just listed players that I feel are tradeable as of today.

I frankly don't care what value they have, Filppula could get you Bobby Ryan for sure. Cleary has value of leadership maybe for a young team, he may get you a draft pick of some sort. Emmerton would get you a draft pick. You could always package picks and prospects to help get a Bobby Ryan here. Take your pick of prospects, Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson are all expendable with the other prospects we have.

Again, I am not asking to trade ALL the players I listed, those are just the ones that are expendable. Of those, Filppula is the most valuable and would get you something you NEED in return. My point about Selanne is, if indeed Ryan is the whipping boy out there and needs a fresh start, offering Filppula to Anaheim would be intriguing enough for Selanne to put a stamp of approval on it because of his desire to play with him. He and Selanne (according to Selanne) have great chemistry together and we could use someone like Bobby Ryan on this team. We have way enough playmaking forwards, we need a scorer or two. Also, getting Bobby Ryan in a Wings uniform would make Detroit a more attractive place for Corey Perry come UFA day.

Now answer me this, which lineup looks better. (assuming Brunner works out and gets re-signed)

Ryan - Dastyuk - Perry

Brunner - Zetterberg - Burrows

or

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Brunner

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

(I threw Burrows in there because I also believe Franzen could be more valuable on Vancouver than here and he (along with a prospect) could get you Burrows....

(granted, this is just hypothetically assuming that Vancouver and Anaheim would want to dance with Holland.)

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So they've both played in NA for 10 plus years, but they've forgotten the style after a few months in Europe?

I guess it would be like in the olden days when we used to cruise into the playoffs, then come up against a 7th or 8th seed in the first round and struggle the first couple of games. It wasn't that we had "forgotten" to play in the playoffs, just that the opponents had been scrapping for their lives every night just to make the playoffs and didn't need to flick a switch or anything. Same thing often happens when 1 team goes through 4-0 and their opponent 4-3, the side that won in 7 often starts the series better.

Edited by Nev

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"do not even know what Franzen would get us in return after his epic fall at the end of last season and which contiues today. If traded anywhere, I am sure it would be somewhere where he would have countrymen who have chemistry with him, Vancouver or Dallas come to mind"

Because the Wings obviously have no fellow countrymen of Franzen (Swedes)????

Yes they have Zetterberg up front to play with Franzen. BUT Franzen has proven time and time again that he doesn't do any better playing with Z. I am not saying that he would guarantee step in Vancouver and strike gold with the Sedins, but hell, even Samuelsson played on that line a scored 30 goals playing with them. Giving Franzen's potential and the excitement he MAY get from a change of scenery AND playing with the Sedins, he could get 40 or 50 in a full season. He is never going to top 30 here.

ALso I am not saying Burrows would come here and nail 50 in, but again, he is a total different type fo player than Franzen and he would bring a whole different dimension to Detroit, which is what Detroit needs....New types of players...

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It's 1 game, 47 to go, but honestly, I'm good either way if we have a good or bad season. I'm not one of these, "Just make the playoffs, anything can happen" fans. If losing Lidstrom is going to be this big of a blow, then why not just reload through the draft?... Next game is @ Columbus, so everything could be right in Hockeytown again by tomorrow night.

I agree with you 100% on this.

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I still think the Wings are pretty sexy dude. They all just forgot to sharpen their skates, my boy Brunner looked timid and Helm needs to get back asap. Just an observation though, Emmerton actually looked good in his limited ice time and Nyquist should be in the line up and Sammy should be on the 3rd line.

I agree that even though he was easily one of our best last night, that Brunner looked timid or just star struck. I also agree Sammy is a better third liner....

What would you think about putting a line together of Brunner - Zetterberg - Tootoo?

I am not saying Tootoo is a top 6 talent, but given the fact that both Z and Gunner got knocked all over the place last night, having Tootoo out there with them could give those guys a bit more sense of security...

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I agree that even though he was easily one of our best last night, that Brunner looked timid or just star struck. I also agree Sammy is a better third liner....

What would you think about putting a line together of Brunner - Zetterberg - Tootoo?

I am not saying Tootoo is a top 6 talent, but given the fact that both Z and Gunner got knocked all over the place last night, having Tootoo out there with them could give those guys a bit more sense of security...

Tootoo didn't do jack s*** until the Wings were down 6-0 and halfway through the 3rd period. His big contribution was throwing his body into the boards and completely missing the hit and getting a 10 minute misconduct for chirping.

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Tootoo didn't do jack s*** until the Wings were down 6-0 and halfway through the 3rd period. His big contribution was throwing his body into the boards and completely missing the hit and getting a 10 minute misconduct for chirping.

and sadly, that is more than most the rest of the team did...

Franzen - Datsyuk - Filppula

Brunner - Zetterberg - Tootoo

Nyquist - Helm (when ready) - Sammy

Cleary - Abby - Eaves

Why not?

When Bert is healthy slot him in Nyquist's spot.

Over the summer, the two buyouts MUST be Bertuzzi and Samuelsson...

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I never said that list of players suck (besides Franzen, Kindl, Quincey) I just listed players that I feel are tradeable as of today.

I frankly don't care what value they have, Filppula could get you Bobby Ryan for sure. Cleary has value of leadership maybe for a young team, he may get you a draft pick of some sort. Emmerton would get you a draft pick. You could always package picks and prospects to help get a Bobby Ryan here. Take your pick of prospects, Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson are all expendable with the other prospects we have.

Again, I am not asking to trade ALL the players I listed, those are just the ones that are expendable. Of those, Filppula is the most valuable and would get you something you NEED in return. My point about Selanne is, if indeed Ryan is the whipping boy out there and needs a fresh start, offering Filppula to Anaheim would be intriguing enough for Selanne to put a stamp of approval on it because of his desire to play with him. He and Selanne (according to Selanne) have great chemistry together and we could use someone like Bobby Ryan on this team. We have way enough playmaking forwards, we need a scorer or two. Also, getting Bobby Ryan in a Wings uniform would make Detroit a more attractive place for Corey Perry come UFA day.

Now answer me this, which lineup looks better. (assuming Brunner works out and gets re-signed)

Ryan - Dastyuk - Perry

Brunner - Zetterberg - Burrows

or

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Brunner

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

(I threw Burrows in there because I also believe Franzen could be more valuable on Vancouver than here and he (along with a prospect) could get you Burrows....

(granted, this is just hypothetically assuming that Vancouver and Anaheim would want to dance with Holland.)

Sorry, but you're dealing in fantasy and not reality. Do you really think that Ken Holland wouldn't pull the trigger if the Ducks offered Bobby Ryan straight up for Filppula? In addition, where's it written that Corey Perry will only play where Bobby Ryan does?

FWIW, they aren't clamoring for more Swedes in Vancouver. Just the opposite. We've won Cups with our Swedes, and they haven't and their fans think they need more Canadians, just like the Wings fans do.

If Tatar, Nyquist and Sheahan are such great talent, why aren't they playing on a team in desperate need of scoring and defense?

I'm not saying that some changes wouldn't be a good thing, but the price you pay for being good for so long is that you don't get quality draft picks. They don't have the picks and the young talent to make trades like other teams do. They've been good for so long because they were way ahead of the game in Russia and Sweden scouting players. Other teams have caught up in that regard so the Wings aren't getting what they used to. Teams just don't stay good for a quarter of a century like the Wings have. It's going to end eventually and hopefully the Wings can avoid a prolonged plummet and can at least remain somewhat entertaining.

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