• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Guest The Axe

Howard = Average

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

let me fix that joke of a list for you...

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak (just a product of his system)

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average. Middle of the pack. Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from.

I'll give you Vokoun in there, even though I believe him to be about the same as Jimmy. Quick, Price, and Fleury are in no stretch of any imiganition better than Jimmy. Miller hasn't been good in about 2-3 years. Cam ward? Please. Even Luo has been very inconsistent over his career, but I'll leave that one up there for arguments sake. so 6 goalis I deem as good or better on your list, puts jimmy #7. I will take that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last time I checked to steal a series you have to actually win. Which we did not. He played well for sure. No doubt he's a good goalie most of the time. But he's not elite. Those I would rate higher than Howard:

Lundqvist

Rinne

Quick

Price

Miller

Luongo

Bryz

Kiprusoff

Maybe you would argue with a few of these and maybe some other goalies I didn't list would rate higher than Howard. But he probably is not in the top 3rd of goaltenders in the NHL

If you rate Bryzbythegoalline ahead of Howard then you sir are crazy. Howard = Price. As i stated before Howard needed to battle harder and fight to see the pucks. Hes done that the past couple games and only gave up 3 goals combined to the oilers and kings and has looked good. The Wings D sorted themselves oit too and have only given up 4 goals in the past 3 games

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average. Middle of the pack. Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from.

You are crazy

.916 2.43 Howard

.916 2.31 Quick

.916 2.55 Price

.909 2.67 Fleury

.917 2.55 Vokoun

.918 2.42 Halak

.915 2.58 Miller

.910 2.75 Cam Ward

Is Howard as good as Brodeur, Lundqvist, Rask or Rinne? Probably not, but he's proven to be a top 10 goalie at the very least, and he has been a top 5 goalie before. Howard is very very good, if you don't think he's elite top 5 I understand, but how in the world can you have Fleury and Ward ahead of him? That's just crazy talk in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average. Middle of the pack. Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from.

Thats a pretty terrible list. MAF is not better than Howard, or did you miss the playoffs last year? Fleury has one season as a starter with a save percentage higher than .915. Howards worst season of his 3 (by far worst) is about equal to Fleury's career average.

Vokoun is a back up, if he was a top 10 goalie he wouldnt be signed dirt cheap and as a back up. Raask hasnt played a season as a starter yet, I think he's very good but hes also playing in front of a stud defense. Halak is more of a system goalie as well. He put up one good season in Montreal where Price was getting the hard starts and taking a tonne of critisism. Last year Halaks back up set the single season recrod for save percentage, its Hitchcocks system.

Some of those guys are a pretty big stretch to put a head of Howard and even still hes right on the cusp of top 10. I think hes lower in the top 10 but definitely top 10 none the less

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Osgood is Jimmy's predecessor. He is what most most people compare Jimmy to. It is fair to point out that if Jimmy is being called average around here, it is comical that those same people think Osgood was among the best goalies of all time. (Using the 401 wins argument.)

You're not using Osgood's career as a touchstone, you're using Jimmy as a way to turn the thread back into a debate about Ozzy. Even your response to my warning is more about Osgood's career than having anything to do with Jimmy.

The thread is ultimately about Howard being average or not and the side discussion of him being elite. A more accurate way of judging Jimmy's averageness or not is to compare him with his peers in the NHL, not a goalie who hasn't played a game in 3 years.

Everyone else has managed to find ways to discuss the topic without derailing the thread into Osgood's greatness or lack thereof. Continue to troll about Osgood and you will be suspended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howard ad one good game. And he still almost lost it. No way the Wings get a clutch cup run out of Howard.

2 goals on 47 shots...most goalies would have let in at least 5 of those shots. Go watch the game tape. The whole Wings team escaped with the squeaker win. They had their svoring chanced too but not as many close calls for almost goals. Howard outperformed the reigning Conn Smythe champ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 goals on 47 shots...most goalies would have let in at least 5 of those shots. Go watch the game tape. The whole Wings team escaped with the squeaker win. They had their svoring chanced too but not as many close calls for almost goals. Howard outperformed the reigning Conn Smythe champ.

he didn't even watch the game yesterday. he was asking about it in the gdt. dude has absolutely no idea what the hell he is talking about, which is normally the case anytime he opens his mouth on here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

he didn't even watch the game yesterday. he was asking about it in the gdt. dude has absolutely no idea what the hell he is talking about, which is normally the case anytime he opens his mouth on here.

I was at Pebble watching the golf. Im allowed to do that and still like the Red Wings. You know that, right? Ive caught half the games this year, and Ive seen enough of Howard to know that he is not elite. Hes good, but considering our team is not elite anymore, good doesnt cut it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average. Middle of the pack. Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from.

:bad::bad::bad:

Also, not so much with Vokoun.

Howard (very much like Ozzie) is an extremely underrated goaltender. He is incredibly talented and IMO one of the more consistent players on our team. Just like the game against LA, he can bail the team out and carry them to a win if he has to. I'm genuinely curious what would make people happy enough to give the guy a little credit. He does a lot of the same things your "elite" goalies do; plays tons of games, makes great saves, can be counted on...what more does he need, a superstar cap hit? If he needs to make 7mil a year to be considered an "Elite" goalie, then I am happy with our "average" one.

Edited by Wingsfan72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of these goalies I don't see enough to comment for sure, but definitely not MAF. He has always struggled with consistency.

Yes he makes highlight reel saves but they're often followed by backbreaking soft goals.

Given his playoff meltdowns I wouldn't put Luongo over Jimmy either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of these goalies I don't see enough to comment for sure, but definitely not MAF. He has always struggled with consistency.

Yes he makes highlight reel saves but they're often followed by backbreaking soft goals.

Given his playoff meltdowns I wouldn't put Luongo over Jimmy either.

Some of these goalies I don't see enough to comment for sure, but definitely not MAF. He has always struggled with consistency.

Yes he makes highlight reel saves but they're often followed by backbreaking soft goals.

Given his playoff meltdowns I wouldn't put Luongo over Jimmy either.

Thats bold. Luongo has a gold medal and made it to game 7 of the cup finals, Jimmy hasnt really had all that much playoff success. I like Jimmy a lot and thnik hes top 10 but Luongo is a consistent Vezina threat and is still playing at a high level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats bold. Luongo has a gold medal and made it to game 7 of the cup finals, Jimmy hasnt really had all that much playoff success. I like Jimmy a lot and thnik hes top 10 but Luongo is a consistent Vezina threat and is still playing at a high level

Yeah, honestly I may be giving too much weight to his playoff meltdowns. He's obviously a very good goalie but just seems mentally fragile or something.

How they've handled the goalie situation in Vancouver certainly hasn't helped things. Luongo got yanked last playoffs, and he was absolutely not the problem.

It's one thing to do that in a game if your team is getting shelled, but if a guy is truly your number one goalie, you don't sit him on the bench to "change things up."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average. Middle of the pack. Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from.

Looking at that list Howard may very well be elite.

Goalies are so hard to assess, the teams in front of them affect their stats so much. When a team is among thje best in goals allowed it is hard to attribute how much of that is due to the goalie and how much of it is due to the team in front of them and not only how good (the team in front of the goalie) they are but also how they play the game. Even the worst of them make great saves

The only one that I would say is for sure better than Howard is Lundquist. It appears that Brodeur still is but at his age, how long can that last? I think it won't be long until Mrazek proves that he is as good at least. He's got a quite confidence, nothing seems to phase him and a definite exuberance and love for playing the game.

Yeah, honestly I may be giving too much weight to his playoff meltdowns. He's obviously a very good goalie but just seems mentally fragile or something.

How they've handled the goalie situation in Vancouver certainly hasn't helped things. Luongo got yanked last playoffs, and he was absolutely not the problem.

It's one thing to do that in a game if your team is getting shelled, but if a guy is truly your number one goalie, you don't sit him on the bench to "change things up."

I don't think they were sure who their number one was/is. I know they were/are hoping it's Schneider to save some money against the cap and power up at another position, which ideally would be the best situation for them.

Edited by Johnz96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average. Middle of the pack. Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from.

Actually, looking at that list, the goaltending in the League now isn't very impressive. Howard no doubt is one of the better goalies in the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, looking at that list, the goaltending in the League now isn't very impressive. Howard no doubt is one of the better goalies in the league.

When you think about how many good goalies were in the league at once in the 90's.....

Hasek, Roy, Barasso, Vernon, Richter, Brodeur, Joseph, Belfour, Vanbiesbrouck, Ranford, Fuhr, Potvin, etc.

Now we still have Brodeur along with Quick and Lundqvist, but after that, who on the lists in this thread are actually better than Howard seeing as Howard is every bit as good as Price? Howard may not be elite according to the history of the game, but in the league right now, he's between 5 and 7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

In 2 of the past 3 seasons, Howard is top 5 in GAA and he is average...... LOL

But he also had the best defenseman in the league and 2 of the best defensive forwards in the league on his team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he also had the best defenseman in the league and 2 of the best defensive forwards in the league on his team

True, but broduer also has a great D in front of him most years. The one thing that draws attention from most fans ref goalies is flash. That is something Howard doesn't have. On the plus side, he does have a mean streak. Not Billy Smith mean (my all time fav tender) but he doesn't take sh!t either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest irishock   
Guest irishock

Orr benefited a whole lot from playing during the worst era in hockey: the expansion era. If you put Orr and Lidstrom in the same era, with Lidstrom born in Canada, Lidstrom would be viewed as the best defensemen ever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howard is a different style of goalie than most.

A lot of goalies have crazy reflexes or crazy aggressiveness, and will post shut outs or incredible games where they stand on their head. Howie grits his teeth and does work. He might not get shut outs or glamorous wins, but he does consistently find ways to win and is very level-headed. He doesn't often post amazing games, but he also doesn't often post crap games. Reliable and efficient.

Lids was amazing to say the least, but many people give him way too much credit for Howards play. One man, even Lids, only does so much.

Edited by number9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NHL has 30 teams. If you cannot name 14 goalies that are better than Howard, the statement is incorrect.

IMO - The guy is far above average. A workhorse who has taken to the job as the team has gone through a transition. He had a 40 year-old Nick, a bad back rafalski, home sick Stuart and a cap era balance of roster. I believe Howard is easily in the top 10 and working his way to the top 5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NHL has 30 teams. If you cannot name 14 goalies that are better than Howard, the statement is incorrect.

IMO - The guy is far above average. A workhorse who has taken to the job as the team has gone through a transition. He had a 40 year-old Nick, a bad back rafalski, home sick Stuart and a cap era balance of roster. I believe Howard is easily in the top 10 and working his way to the top 5.

ya, not to mention he takes the blame for each loss and never makes excuses. He never says, "well if Quincey hadn't gotten out of position I could have made a save" he says "I should have made the save, I lost sight of the puck and they made me pay for it"

He is a workhorse, a stand up guy, and definitely top 10 in the league

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now