• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
WingsDC2B

Why the Red Wings should be sellers this year

Rate this topic

50 posts in this topic

For the first time in MANY years, I believe the Red Wings would be better off as sellers at this years trade deadline rather than buyers. Here's why:

1. This years draft is one of the deepest in many years. A lot of talent out there. The lower we finish in the standings the better the pick.

2. Because of the shortened season, most teams (even the Wings) are still in the playoff hunt and feel they should do whatever it takes to make the playoff. Thus, the price tag on players is going to be much more than what they are truly worth. We could get more bang for our buck. Could be prospects, draft picks, etc.

3. Let's face it, this years team doesn't have the make up for a long post season run. Not to mention, the fact we can't stay injury free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not horrible logic at all really. itd be nice if we could somehow sell and still make the playoffs, if only for the fact of keeping the playoff streak alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody but Pav, Hank, Jimmy, Kronner and Helm. I'd say Fil would catch top dollar. Some teams may want a veteran d-man like White or Huskins. Or other vets like Cleary, Miller, or Eaves. These players are not valued that high on our team, but teams (like the Wings) have over paid for depth in the past at the deadline. I don't see any of these player being on the Wings much past a year more. We have our base, and need to build off of that. And sometimes that means parting with an important part, like Fil or Mule. Tigers did it with Granderson, and look now, I'd say the Tigers made the right, but tough move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not horrible logic at all really. itd be nice if we could somehow sell and still make the playoffs, if only for the fact of keeping the playoff streak alive.

My thoughts exactly.. The streak ending would be extremely disappointing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would kinda be nice to pick up some extra picks, maybe even multiple 1st/2nd rounders, and either use them all to grab a bunch of prospects in what is supposed to be a deep draft or package some up to move up higher, like into the top 5 maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

missing the playoffs and ending the steak would really suck but my thought is if its gonna end eventually it be a good time now since its a shortened season so wouldnt be as bad , i dont know about others here but it doesnt feel the same this year with it being so short im not as into it as i would if it were a full season ... look at philadelphia, rangers ,capitals all in danger of not making the playoffs just seems like a crapshoot season

And the + side is the draft is so deep ... Wingsdc2b is correct miller,eaves,white etc... those types of players have no future here and will be gone in the off season or in a year , id rather bring up nyquist tatar andersson now full time and let them play the last 18 games and get rid of those guys for picks

if Filppula wants 5 million + hes gotta go at the deadline , he would probably get us a first to a contender... the price at the deadline will cost too much ....maybe someone worth taking a shot at depending could be ryan whitney if the oilers excepted say a 2nd round pick and then we can see if hed fit in here and offer him a deal or not

other than that we should sell ( other than the key guys obviously like datsuk,zetterberg,helm,kronwall,howard,ericsson,smith,tootoo,brunner, abdelkader and the kids)

And next year we'd be back at the top and forget this season

WingsDC2B likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not horrible logic at all really. itd be nice if we could somehow sell and still make the playoffs, if only for the fact of keeping the playoff streak alive.

That's what I was thinking... I know people say "all it takes is to get in and you can ride a hot streak or luck to the cup, look at last years LA Kings". But face it... our odds at the cup this year are pretty low. I don't think it's a bad idea to be sellers (depending what we are "selling) to better us long term. However, I'm hoping to just make the playoffs for the fact of excitement and out ever long lasting streak!

nyqvististhefuture likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the first time in MANY years, I believe the Red Wings would be better off as sellers at this years trade deadline rather than buyers. Here's why:

1. This years draft is one of the deepest in many years. A lot of talent out there. The lower we finish in the standings the better the pick.

2. Because of the shortened season, most teams (even the Wings) are still in the playoff hunt and feel they should do whatever it takes to make the playoff. Thus, the price tag on players is going to be much more than what they are truly worth. We could get more bang for our buck. Could be prospects, draft picks, etc.

3. Let's face it, this years team doesn't have the make up for a long post season run. Not to mention, the fact we can't stay injury free.

Whether for better or for worse, there's no way in actually knowing that. The LA Kings would've been the LAST team most people would've picked to win the cup last year out of the 16 teams who made the playoffs. Hockey, more than any other sport when it comes to the playoffs, is highly dependent on how a team is playing leading up to and during the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether for better or for worse, there's no way in actually knowing that. The LA Kings would've been the LAST team most people would've picked to win the cup last year out of the 16 teams who made the playoffs. Hockey, more than any other sport when it comes to the playoffs, is highly dependent on how a team is playing leading up to and during the playoffs.

Well most people picked them to win the Cup before the season began... they just underperformed all season. I am tired of people using that logic just because LA won the cup from the 8th seed... they were a top notch team that finally got their act together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether for better or for worse, there's no way in actually knowing that. The LA Kings would've been the LAST team most people would've picked to win the cup last year out of the 16 teams who made the playoffs. Hockey, more than any other sport when it comes to the playoffs, is highly dependent on how a team is playing leading up to and during the playoffs.

And that is exactly the problem with my argument For the next 10+ years we are going to have to hear about the Cinderella Kings, and possibly lose out at a prime window of opportunity to add some solid pieces in a rich draft and a shortened season. I'm just playing the odds here... we have better odds at improving the team in the next 4 months (trades & draft) than we do at winning a cup, but both are possible. It's just about which is more likely and a better sports business/future gamble. We of all teams should know what it truly takes to both make a solid cup run and win it. I don't think this is our year, just trying to be honest as much as it pains me to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well most people picked them to win the Cup before the season began... they just underperformed all season. I am tired of people using that logic just because LA won the cup from the 8th seed... they were a top notch team that finally got their act together.

That's actually not my logic. I'm saying that just because Detroit is battling injuries and can probably use a trade (2) means we should be sellers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree but its just not how Holland does things. Instead of selling and committing to a rebuild. He will try and buy something making us a lose a first rounder and the likes of Tatar or Nyquist. It'll be an effort to win now when in reality it'll keep us at average for longer.

Look at the too teams in the west. Chicago has what 6 stars then a bunch of average guys. The ducks got like four or five and a bunch of average guys. In the NHL now you won't have stars on all fours lines like we used to because of the cap. The problem is even though the wings have dats we have no one with him making it one of the worst number one or two lines we have seen.

We won't be able to acquire the top 6 type forward we need which is why selling is better now. But I'm sure Holland will find our Quincey at forward and lose our first rounder. I have total faith in that as he has more experience doing that than selling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no ones saying for the wings to rebuild we still got datsyuk zetterberg kronwall ericsson franzen helm howard tootoo etc...

a rebuild would mean trading those players mentioned above and having like 5 first round picks at this draft when you still have those players you dont need to rebuild , just need to mix in some youth now so they can learn from those players above like they learned from yzerman,larionov,lidstrom etc...

cant wait too long to bring up these players , brendan smith should of been here a year earlier fulltime so he could of learned from lidstrom now its too late , cant let that mistake happen again

WingsDC2B likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well most people picked them to win the Cup before the season began... they just underperformed all season. I am tired of people using that logic just because LA won the cup from the 8th seed... they were a top notch team that finally got their act together.

Wings have proven to be a good team, we just need to get our act together.

We are inconsistent much like they were, except we've actually been in the playoff seeds for the majority of the year unlike them. When the wings play against Vancouver they looked very good, if that team shows up to the playoffs they could go on a run, especially with experience playoff performers.

Not saying it's likely, but the chance is there, this team isn't a bottom dwelling team, it's a bad Red Wing team, but it's still an above average NHL team.

Ally likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly believe they should move as many of their bad contracts as humanly possible. I was just looking at our roster and their salaries and couldn't figure where all the money was going considering only Datsyuk and Zetterberg make any kind of real money. Upon closer inspection I found that 3/4 of our roster is full of people who under perform for their contracts or are hurt. Ugh.

Hypothetically, you could trade Franzen for Gaborik and White for a pick and come out pretty close to even against the cap. Who doesn't think that sounds better than what we've got going on now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't they say every year it's a deep draft? And even when they don't, I'm sure guys picked late still have become very good players. There are no sure things in the draft unless you're picking top 10. Maybe even top 5 or top 3.

Wings won't be picking that low anyway, so it doesn't make sense to abandon this year for a mid-to-late 1st round pick. Playoffs are a crapshoot and no matter what the pessimists on this board say, if the Wings get in and get hot, they could make a run.

kylee likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't they say every year it's a deep draft? And even when they don't, I'm sure guys picked late still have become very good players. There are no sure things in the draft unless you're picking top 10. Maybe even top 5 or top 3.

Wings won't be picking that low anyway, so it doesn't make sense to abandon this year for a mid-to-late 1st round pick. Playoffs are a crapshoot and no matter what the pessimists on this board say, if the Wings get in and get hot, they could make a run.

mid to late first round pick??? if we dont make the playoffs theres a good chance we can be in the top 10 and every team that doesnt get in technically has a shot at winning the first overall pick

If bettman fixed it for us like he did for pittsburgh when he got them crosby and we by the fluke of god somehow got seth jones wed be right back on top and gold on defense for next 10-20 years and even outside jones theres drouin,mackinnon,nichushkin and barkov that are considered a cant miss im sure outside of the top 5 im sure there are other good players but i wont pretend to know who they are

WingsDC2B likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd listen to any trade offers, and hope that someone blew me away with an offer I couldn't refuse, but I wouldn't be actively trying to trade away anyone on the roster with the team still in the playoff picture.

I actually don't think this years draft is anywhere near as deep as originally thought, it has an elite crop in the top 5 but it falls off after that and like most drafts its a crap shoot picking middle and late round picks.

OP's logic is good though, if prices are high now is a good time to unload some of our depth. Gaustad returned a 1st last season and this years prices should be even higher so if we can find a taker for some of the added middle/bottom pairing defenceman we have, or for some of our extra bottom 6 forwards why not take the offer.

I still think priority one is making the playoffs though, our continued success is a big reason why players want to play here. Waving the white flag and doing a full rebuild could be the death of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flashy, I agree that there is separation between the top 5 and everyone else. However there are quite a few names outside of them that could turn out to be stars. Lindholm, Shinkaruk, Mantha, and Domi come to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with this idea is that it's actually NOT a deep draft...2013 NHL draft lacks depth of talent

We're not getting a top 10 draft pick, that's pretty much guaranteed. We don't need to sell and blow up a decent team to take a gamble on a pick who is very likely not to work out. Given that the success rate of where we'd be drafting, there's a < 50% of our first round pick working out (see The Value of a (First-Half) First Round Draft Pick). And it's extremely unlikely that the player we picked would ever be better than the player we traded to get the pick, even if said pick does manage to make it to the NHL at all.

So, really I'd rather just watch the Wings in the playoffs.

Edited by Zetts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with this idea is that it's actually NOT a deep draft...2013 NHL draft lacks depth of talent

We're not getting a top 10 draft pick, that's pretty much guaranteed. We don't need to sell and blow up a decent team to take a gamble on a pick who is very likely not to work out. Given that the success rate of where we'd be drafting, there's a < 50% of our first round pick working out (see The Value of a (First-Half) First Round Draft Pick). And it's extremely unlikely that the player we picked would ever be better than the player we traded to get the pick, even if said pick does manage to make it to the NHL at all.

So, really I'd rather just watch the Wings in the playoffs.

its highly unlikely the wings wont make the bottom 10 unless we dont get in the playoffs and win the lottery but theres still a chance were not guaranteed a playoff spot and im sure no one thought the 2003 draft would be as deep as it turned out to be , no one ever knows whos gonna be good till years from now to say the wings wouldnt get someone really good 15 - 30 cant be known till years from now

and if we say did trade filppula for a 1st theres a chance he could always pull a keith tkachuk and come back

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't disagree with the logic, but I'm hesitant to believe that we have the assets to really attract a lot of attention. Sure, we've got Flip, but what's he really worth after another uninspiring season thus far, more injuries, and the looming UFA status? He's likely our best reasonable trade asset. Franzen's value is crippled by his contract, and considering his biggest strength is scoring goals and he's not doing much of that lately, what's he worth? Cleary? Sammy? White? Quincey? I mean, what do you really get for those guys on the best day at this point?

I like the idea of it in theory, I just don't think we really have the pieces to make much of a splash, and for as little faith as I have in some of our guys, at this point, I have even less faith in Holland's ability to replace anyone. We've got young talent ready, but there's no guarantees that guys won't get up and sputter under the pressure of the full-time NHL gig. And anyone we draft won't be contributing to the Detroit Red Wings in the next year or two...or three or four...or five.

I have tried in the past to not join the anti-Ken Holland bandwagon, but the more I really think about it, the more I really have a hard time defending the guy's performance as a GM in the cap era. Once the league took away the ability to use Mike Illitch's endless bank account to lure top-tier free agents, Holland has struggled to bring talent in, he's made some bonehead decisions (Franzen over Hossa (?!?!?!?!?!?!?)), caught off guard multiple times in the off-season without a plan for players leaving, and worst of all in my mind, had no plan in place for Lidstrom's retirement. I'll give him credit for being the first to exploit the loophole in the cap era that allowed us to sign Franzen at Z at low cap hits, but even those aren't looking quite as bright and shiny as they were initially, especially Franzen's deal.

So basically, I'm not expecting much to happen at the deadline, even if we were to find ourselves out of the race. Furthermore, I'm not hopeful at all that we'll have a stellar offseason either. I don't Holland is as terrible as some think he is, but I don't think there's a whole lot you can say about him being exceptionally great in the cap era, especially since Bowman left the organization. It might not be that he's a bad cap-era GM though so much as maybe GMs just need to be switched out after 5-10 years, good run or not. After awhile, loyalty can start to become a liability in professional sports if not balanced with a healthy dose of pragmatism; while noble, it just doesn't always help get the job done. At some point, you've got to change your ways, or the team needs to find a new GM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With no one else selling, we would get max returns for anyone that we move. Filppula and franzen would get at leasta 1st and maybe a second pick to go with it. Cleary, White and Miller are all UFA's after this season-none should be resigned, so move them for some more mid round picks. Eaves and Colaivaco would also get some mid round picks. this would also clear out cap space to resign out UFA/RFA that we want to keep: Howard, brunner, Kindl, Smith, add a Dekeyser, and maybe 1 or 2 UFA's this summer. Then we go into the draft with 12+ picks and can move up or dwn as needed to get the quality young talent we need.

The thought that keeping a streak alive to only get booted in the 1st round is silly. All streaks end sooner or later. having a streak and $2 keeps you a cup of coffee and that is about it. The goal is to win Cups. the second place team is just the first loser. Nothing more.The idea of 4, 5, 6 more years of just making the PO's, losing in the early rounds vs. taking a year or 2 off and loading up with young talent to win more cups, is no choice to me. To get a Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin type of player, you have to pick early. we could very well be 14 months from losing our star player and have NOTHING to replace him with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0