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Richdg

Holland retirement watch?

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It seems like Holland retired 4 years ago. Kenny will leave when he has a shot at managing Toronto. Let's hope that is sooner than later. Nobody that is ever great at anything is great forever (except Scotty). Thank you Kenny for the great years & memories. Those days are over, congrats! Now GTFO,

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All this whining about Holland standing pat and not selling the future, unbelievable. If I were Holland I'd have taken the easy road out last summer (- retiring with Lidas and moving up as president of hockey operations in the organization) and left my successor trying to fix a behind the pack team, going out as a GM legend! One at least has to love his will to fix it and leave (hopefully Stevie, Shero or Chiarelli) with a great roster to build from.

Develano has pissed away his chance to ever GM the Detroit Red Wings, with his stupid and insanely offending comments. This organization from top to bottom is and always was about being classy and you can't tell me Mr. I was happy with this comment. You try your best to threat players well and then someone of your own organization is throwing the players under the bus like nothing? Doesn't fly with me.

So of course people can critisize Holland all they want, but at least admire his will to fix things.

What? Who was the GM before Holland? Are you 12? Jimmy D has already been there and done it. he was the one that buildt this team from scratch. I guess you don't remember anything before 1998 or so.........

vangvace, Dave and pondrocket like this

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"We like our team."

"We're gonna kick all the tires."

"The price wasn't right."

"[insert injured player] is our big deadline acquisition."

We need some t-shirts! We could wear them to The Joe in groups - y'know, in honor of Ken's brilliant work and all. :innocent:

Edited by Dabura
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Why would Holland retire? Because some posters on a Red Wings message board want him to? :lol: He isn't going anywhere. If you can't handle seeing Kenny Holland being the GM of the Red Wings then maybe it's time to start cheering for another team. If it bothers you that much. :lol:

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What? Who was the GM before Holland? Are you 12? Jimmy D has already been there and done it. he was the one that buildt this team from scratch. I guess you don't remember anything before 1998 or so.........

Yeah who was that guy? Ya know the guy that built a cup winning team in Long Island and then in detroit :P Its sad that some ppl dont remember past 1998.....Bandwogoners........gotta love em ;)

Also ppl need to quit bitching about what holland did or didnt do. The mans one of the best gms of all time : 6 Presidents trophies(no other team has more than 2 ;) ) 21 straight playoff app. 7 WCF appearences, 6 SCF 4 Cup wins, ... Seriously what more can you ask for out of a gm. COuld be worse, remember when we were the dead wings?(poor mickey :( ) Be thankfull that you have a team that has been competative. PPl need to quit being so damned spoiled.

Obviously he doesnt want to trade the farm away for 1 player. Not in the cap era. PPl have to remember that most of these guys are still young. I feel we have a very good core of young players. Lashoff to me has been the biggest surprise, Kinda reminds me of Nick abit with the way he plays. Nothing flashy just smart descisions. We most teams go through a "rebuilding" stage they are garbage.(Look at calgary and buffalo) But sometimes our fanbase reminds me of lakers nation a little bit. You cant dominate for years and years with out having to rebuild at some point. (not to get off topic) Look at Kobe, The closest thing to MJ, Hes getting older. PLAYERS GET OLDER. Cant stop the inevitable

Edited by ZforC
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The greatest day in Red Wings history=when Holland has no impact on the team anymore.

Hmmmm let's see.... The day Gordie signed with the Wings, the first game the Production Line was put together, the day the Ilitch family bought the team, the day Devellano was hired, the day Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk were drafted, the hiring of Scotty, the Shanny trade, the Russian Five on the ice for the first time, the Turtle Incident, the Cup win on home ice in 97, Vladdy on the ice with the Cup in 98, the 02 Cup with all the future hall of famers, the Cup win in 08 when all the haters said the Wings couldn't win under a salary cap? None of these are greater? Really? Really? Use hyperbole much?

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So pathetic, why would he retire because he didn't want to over pay all these over hyped players

Could someone please explain this to me please, because from we all just saw over the past week a lot of trades made me think REALLY?? That's all they got for him?! ex.Iggy Jagr Morrow Gange and I would even toss Gaborik and Murray in there...I will also add that Im not upset we didn't land anyone here, just sick of hearing every goddamn trade deadline and July 1st that ^&*%$#$ word over pay while handfulls of teams around us sign top end talent we over pay for role playing scrubs, most have played for us before so instead of saying we over payed we played it safe.

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Seriously? I mean, I knew there would be a few people on here that would be telling him that he needs to go, but I can't believe how many people I do see. The guy has helped build a Stanley Cup WINNING team 4 times in the past 16 years. Simple math, 25% in the past 16 years of ALL teams in the NHL, were the wings winning the cup. Not to mention, we've been contenders year after year boosting 100+ points in a season. We've made the playoffs 21 years in a row. Longer than some people on this forum have been alive probably. I DO realize that these past few years we've been on the decline, not living up to what we've seen. I honestly don't think we need to start getting rid of this guy until we REALLY see some devastating situations (ex: miss the playoffs, then struggle the following year). We are going to have a lot of cap space this off-season, the new CBA kicking in (aka teams like s***tsburgh struggling to keep all their "talent"), PLENTY of talented UFA's, and have a plethora of prospects to trade (not to mention a very talented draft year coming up).

Things are "bad" now compared to the past 20 years, but this team is still in the race to get to the playoffs (despite us being in a "rebuilding year"). After that it's fair game, cups aren't handed out, they're earned.



Yeah who was that guy? Ya know the guy that built a cup winning team in Long Island and then in detroit :P Its sad that some ppl dont remember past 1998.....Bandwogoners........gotta love em ;)

Also ppl need to quit bitching about what holland did or didnt do. The mans one of the best gms of all time : 6 Presidents trophies(no other team has more than 2 ;) ) 21 straight playoff app. 7 WCF appearences, 6 SCF 4 Cup wins, ... Seriously what more can you ask for out of a gm. COuld be worse, remember when we were the dead wings?(poor mickey :( ) Be thankfull that you have a team that has been competative. PPl need to quit being so damned spoiled.

Obviously he doesnt want to trade the farm away for 1 player. Not in the cap era. PPl have to remember that most of these guys are still young. I feel we have a very good core of young players. Lashoff to me has been the biggest surprise, Kinda reminds me of Nick abit with the way he plays. Nothing flashy just smart descisions. We most teams go through a "rebuilding" stage they are garbage.(Look at calgary and buffalo) But sometimes our fanbase reminds me of lakers nation a little bit. You cant dominate for years and years with out having to rebuild at some point. (not to get off topic) Look at Kobe, The closest thing to MJ, Hes getting older. PLAYERS GET OLDER. Cant stop the inevitable

Hmmmm let's see.... The day Gordie signed with the Wings, the first game the Production Line was put together, the day the Ilitch family bought the team, the day Devellano was hired, the day Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk were drafted, the hiring of Scotty, the Shanny trade, the Russian Five on the ice for the first time, the Turtle Incident, the Cup win on home ice in 97, Vladdy on the ice with the Cup in 98, the 02 Cup with all the future hall of famers, the Cup win in 08 when all the haters said the Wings couldn't win under a salary cap? None of these are greater? Really? Really? Use hyperbole much?

THANK YOU

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Develano has pissed away his chance to ever GM the Detroit Red Wings, with his stupid and insanely offending comments. This organization from top to bottom is and always was about being classy and you can't tell me Mr. I was happy with this comment. You try your best to threat players well and then someone of your own organization is throwing the players under the bus like nothing? Doesn't fly with me.

Ummm....I think you're confusing Nill with Devellano? :eh:

kipwinger likes this

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I'm sick of the logic that because of the success in the past, then we should never be happy to see Holland go. Are you kidding me? I suppose Gretzky and Howe should keep going because of their history. Perhaps Lidstrom could keep playing and playing despite his decline and age because of all of his Norris trophies. Canucks should have never got rid of Burke, etc.

Holland, like everyone else in the organization, needs to be re-evaluated on yearly basis or else you risk falling to complacency with past accomplishments and fail to adapt to the new league. He needs to earn and keep his job. If you're satisfied with this team and the direction Holland is going (aka half-assed plan B rebuild), then you'll be in for quite the surprise when the Wings become the CBJ and NYI of recent past, especially if Datsyuk leaves.

Yes, we have great prospects - but we have absolutely zero transition from old guard to new in the works. Just like how we lost Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart and had to throw together a D corps. If it weren't for injuries forcing our hand... the next wave would have been in the AHL all year.

Edited by SuperCalaFilppulastic!

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Those were all great days of promise; Ken Holland's retirement will usher in an era of prosperity and change. No more "injured coming back=deadline acquisition," no more paying for crap (Quincey, Samuelsson) retreads and calling it "going all in," no more watching superstars of their generation (Yzerman, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg) waste away at the end of their careers because "prices were too high."

For every Brendan Smith there's a Jesse Wallin; I'd much rather give a 1st/2nd and know what I've got (Boumeester) for 6 years than hope a draft pick develops into J-Bo in 6 years.

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What? Who was the GM before Holland? Are you 12? Jimmy D has already been there and done it. he was the one that buildt this team from scratch. I guess you don't remember anything before 1998 or so.........

Yeah who was that guy? Ya know the guy that built a cup winning team in Long Island and then in detroit :P Its sad that some ppl dont remember past 1998.....Bandwogoners........gotta love em ;)

Somehow richdg came across as offensive and ZforC came across as sarcastic. I just have to laugh at that for a moment.

Unfortunately, seeing as I only REALLY started watching hockey in 2000 as a Leaf fan, knowing that Jimmy D was the GM is not something that has stuck in my head. Wasn't until summer of '02 when I came here with the Cujo acquisition that I knew much about the Wings. Cut the new fans some slack, we don't all do research on this team before we start to enjoy their play.

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Holland didn't build our team for 97 and 98. Jimmy D did. Holland did a GREAT job maintaining that success for 10 years. it is the last 4 that we have begun to go downhill-which was to be expected, yet has done liitle to stop it. That is not ok. I am sorry, you don't rebuild by signing Sammy, Cola, resigning bert, etc..... I understand bringing in some fillers 1 year at a time, but 2 or 3 years? no way.

Do you all realize that if we resign our 3 UFA's and 2 RFA's: Howard, Brunner, Fillpula, Smith and Kindl, our roster is full and doesnt not include tatar, Nyquist, or Sheahan. How is that rebuilding? Look at the 2013/2014 roster:

Forwards: bert, Datsyuk, Abby, Franzen, Z, Sammy, Andersson, Filppula, Brunner, Eaves, Helm, TooToo, and Emmerton. That is 13.

Dmen: Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Lashoff, dekeyser, Q, and Cola. That is 8.

G's: Howard and Gus. That is 2.

That makes 23 players and no real cap room left. 8 of the 13 forwards are over 30. Young guys like Nyquist, tatar, and Sheahan will start in GR. Again.

Granted we have 2 amnesty buyouts-which I am sure will be used on cheap guys in their final years, not guys signed untill they are 40+ years old like Franzen. yes trades could be made, but if the price is to high.... We could sign a UFA or 2, but we don't have cap room. The flip side of course is after next season we have a bunch of UFA's that could/should leave: datsyuk, bert, sammy, Cola, eaves, ericsson and maybe 1 or 2 more.

The point of this post and the thought behind the thread is, we have a lot of work to do. We need a GM that is active, not passive. After being at the helm for 15+ years, not sure Holland is willing to do it anymore. Which again brings me back to the question of why? Being the GM of a high profile/successful franchise like the RW's is VERY stressful. Thus the thought, maybe he is going to retire?



Somehow richdg came across as offensive and ZforC came across as sarcastic. I just have to laugh at that for a moment.

Unfortunately, seeing as I only REALLY started watching hockey in 2000 as a Leaf fan, knowing that Jimmy D was the GM is not something that has stuck in my head. Wasn't until summer of '02 when I came here with the Cujo acquisition that I knew much about the Wings. Cut the new fans some slack, we don't all do research on this team before we start to enjoy their play.

First, welcome to the Wings! Second, wasn't talking to you. was talking to someone with over 1100 posts on this forum and either is confused or a fool.

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What comment was that?

Jimmy D basically stated that the owners are in charge of their own teams in relation to the lockout. He equated himself, the players, and essentially all employees of the owners as cattle on a farm... and equated the NHL teams owners as those who run the farm. Since he included himself as part of the cattle, it obviously wasn't meant to be a slur against the players... but a simple analogy. Many members of this board seized upon the statement as evidence that the players (and themselves) were victims of the arrogant owners.

Beyond that, and in light of all the general hatefulness and slurs being directed towards Bettman during the lockout, Jimmy D also made statements in Bettman's defense. This also made him a target for anti Bettman/owner, pro NHLPA members on this board... of which there are quite a few apparently, based on the reactions I observed.

I don't think Jimmy D's comments embarrassed the Red Wings organization or were embarrassing in general, but he had to be fined for his statements because league owners (and staff) were not supposed to make public comments about the lockout.

Edited by RedWingsDad

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This is wrong. Well kinda. Are we rebuilding? if so, then why hang onto guys that are going to be gone soon? Example A. White. UFA after this year. Not coming back. No room for him to be honest. Move him for an extra pick. More prospects. Example B, Colavacio-see Example A. Example C Cleary. example D Miller. Example E franzen. Example F Filppula. Example G Sammy. All could have been moved thus freeing up cap room and gathering more picks to rebuild faster.

Oh you mean you wanted some players? McBain would have ben nice. 25 year old RH shooting Dman. Would have fit in perfectly with Smith, Kindl, lashoff, and dekeyser. Courturier is another. 20 year old future #1 C, something we don't have.

Now I could go on and on about that, and many have. but that wasn't the point of this thread. fact: Holland did nothing. Nothing good nor bad. Nothing to gear up for one last run, and speed up the rebuilding process. The question is why? Does he really believe we will be better by doing nothing? if so, then what do we need him around for? I guess we have all the layers we will ever need. trueth is, no team in any sport is EVER a finished product. You are always changing and trying to improve. We didn't. So again, I ask why? There is only 1 explaination that makes sense. he is done.

uhh. holland wants to stay competive for a long period of time. he wants the winsg to always be competive. That is the reason why he did not give up some of the future of our team to improve it right now. Fact is if we are good enough to compete then we dont need to toss away the future. I would have agreed with all of you guys if this was 3 years ago back when we had lids and we were a favorite to win every year. Thing is it is not. I wish holland would have improved the team then to give us a better shot at winning, but he didnt. If he didnt do it then hes not gunna do it now. Also Holland has mention he does all of his work in the offseaon, not in the middle of the hockey season. and there is sense to that. So get over him not moving anyone. Also with the work Holland did in the offeason and the team he constructed none of you guys would have thought we would be as competive as we are. I mean our team looked like s*** so how bout stop hammering on holland for being a s***ty gm. He knows allot more then most of you guys. I get that a change of voive and direction would be good, but that does not mean you can hammer holland. He has done fine.

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First, welcome to the Wings! Second, wasn't talking to you. was talking to someone with over 1100 posts on this forum and either is confused or a fool.

Last time I've heard the Penguins bandwagon still isn't full, so I am sure the "I'll trade the farm for everyone" superb GM Shero has a place for some people. Have fun.

Mentioning what Holland didn't do while also forgetting what he did (leading this team succesfully in the communism also known as CBA era) of the league, tons of other GMs failed to do so.

Holland also came out and stated, that the Wings might not make the playoffs this season, at least at that point it should have been clear what the direction (*hint* big picture/longterm success) of this franchise would be going into the season including trade-deadline. I know it is hard to figure out for armchair-GMs.

Edited by frankgrimes

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uhh. holland wants to stay competive for a long period of time. he wants the winsg to always be competive. That is the reason why he did not give up some of the future of our team to improve it right now. Fact is if we are good enough to compete then we dont need to toss away the future. I would have agreed with all of you guys if this was 3 years ago back when we had lids and we were a favorite to win every year. Thing is it is not. I wish holland would have improved the team then to give us a better shot at winning, but he didnt. If he didnt do it then hes not gunna do it now. Also Holland has mention he does all of his work in the offseaon, not in the middle of the hockey season. and there is sense to that. So get over him not moving anyone. Also with the work Holland did in the offeason and the team he constructed none of you guys would have thought we would be as competive as we are. I mean our team looked like s*** so how bout stop hammering on holland for being a s***ty gm. He knows allot more then most of you guys. I get that a change of voive and direction would be good, but that does not mean you can hammer holland. He has done fine.

Yes, in the past he has done fine. In fact great! lately not so much. As for the future, no one I mean no one knows what that holds. at best 1 out of 5 prospects ever amount to anything. To expect all of them to make it will not happen. take the group of Andersson, Sheahan, Nyquist, tatar, and janarock. I will bet you whatever that no more than 1 makes it. That is the history of sports. Go look att he NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB etc..... Over here in GR, the Whitecaps are celebrating their 20th year. This year their 100th former player made the majors. 25 players per year times 20 years is at the minimum 500 players. So the 1 in 5 holds true. But again, this isn't the point. if you beleive that those 5 I mentioned are your future, then PLAY them! Stop playing guys like Cleary, Miller, eaves, etc... They are not the future. they are role players of the past.

Last time I've heard the Penguins bandwagon still isn't full, so I am sure the "I'll trade the farm for everyone" superb GM Shero has a place for some people. Have fun.

Mentioning what Holland didn't do while also forgetting what he did (leading this team succesfully in the communism also known as CBA era) of the league, tons of other GMs failed to do so.

Holland also came out and stated, that the Wings might not make the playoffs this season, at least at that point it should have been clear what the direction (*hint* big picture/longterm success) of this franchise would be going into the season including trade-deadline. I know it is hard to figure out for armchair-GMs.

No, it is very easy. I am fine not making the playoffs. Play the kids full time then and find out what we have, don't have. If we are rebuilding then why sign sammy, cola, and the gang?

Ihave been very clear on my thoughts about the RW's. if it is one last hurrah for the cup, great make the moves and try to win. if we are rebuilding, then play the kids and take our lumps. we are half a$$ing both. Not good enough to win the cup, and not bad enough to get the high end young talent in the draft.

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Yes, we have great prospects - but we have absolutely zero transition from old guard to new in the works..

I don't know how you came up with this. Who's the old gaurd? Are Kronwall, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg part of it? We obviously transitioned well from the late 90's team and now as those three guys age we have the deepest farm system I've ever seen the Wings have. On percentage's alone we should have several very good NHL'ers in our group.

Smith and Dekeyser could end up being the Kronwall and Fischer clones from the early 00's. Jarnkrok could end up being close to Zetterberg, Nyquist should end up being at least a more rounded Hudler (i personally believe he's better than that), Mrazek looks like a stud goalie (and we already have a relatively young goalie), Sproul looks like at least a good future #3 guy, Andersson is the new Sammy Pahlsson, Tatar (see Nyquist above), Sheahan's downside is Abdelkader and upside is Franzen with passion. Those are just the most legitimate guys...in most hockey writers minds Ouellett, Pulkkinnen, Backman are future nhl players with real upside.

But to stay on topic, as for transition, I see Smith, Dekeyser, Jarnkrok, Tatar, Nyquist, and Andersson as high impact 22-25 year olds ready to start their takeover in the next couple years and Mrazek, Sproul, Jurco and company after that.

If somewhere in the next few years we signed or traded for a younger elite player or just one of Jarnkrok, Sproul, Mrazek, or Jurco become elite nhl players...we should have as bright a future as any other team, if not better.

Edited by achildr1

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Holland does gotta go .. after this year's garbage team, he has no pull anymore and is unwilling to trade or give up some garbage prospects.. i.e. Kindl

Does he watch SJ, Hawks, etc play? How can we compete...

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Holland does gotta go .. after this year's garbage team, he has no pull anymore and is unwilling to trade or give up some garbage prospects.. i.e. Kindl

Does he watch SJ, Hawks, etc play? How can we compete...

You haven't been watching this season if you think Kindl is a "garbage prospect."

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All this whining about Holland standing pat and not selling the future, unbelievable. If I were Holland I'd have taken the easy road out last summer (- retiring with Lidas and moving up as president of hockey operations in the organization) and left my successor trying to fix a behind the pack team, going out as a GM legend! One at least has to love his will to fix it and leave (hopefully Stevie, Shero or Chiarelli) with a great roster to build from.

Develano has pissed away his chance to ever GM the Detroit Red Wings, with his stupid and insanely offending comments. This organization from top to bottom is and always was about being classy and you can't tell me Mr. I was happy with this comment. You try your best to threat players well and then someone of your own organization is throwing the players under the bus like nothing? Doesn't fly with me.

So of course people can critisize Holland all they want, but at least admire his will to fix things.

wat

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Yeah who was that guy? Ya know the guy that built a cup winning team in Long Island and then in detroit :P Its sad that some ppl dont remember past 1998.....Bandwogoners........gotta love em ;)

Only reason I don't remember much before that was because I was 7 years old before that season ;)

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