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Brunner Contract Talks

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He doesn't bring more, just something different. And Eaves and Emmerton are both likely gone if everyone else is healthy

He fights for one thing. How is that not more than these 3? And thats a big thing that the wings were missing from our team. Like I said before he goes 110% on the ice when he is on the ice. More than I can say about Emmerton for sure. Out of the 3 Miller is the only one that comes sort of close to Tootoo.

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So you would stick Tootoo on the 4th line and only pay him 900k. Where would you put Miller,Emmerton and Eaves and how much would you pay each. Because in my eyes and I'm sure many more see Tootoo as bringing really more than any of these players and is getting paid accordingly.

Well that's a different question about roster, not about Tootoo's salary.

I agree with DickieDunn that he doesn't bring more, just different. They can kill penalties and are much more defensively responsible. In the regular season Miller was our top PK forward in terms of TOI per game, Emmerton was 2nd. In the playoffs it was Miller, Emmerton, with Eaves at 4th. Freeing up Datsyuk's and Zetterberg PK minutes while still having a good penalty kill is already more valuable than the handful of staged fights Tootoo brings.

In terms of roster though I do think they have too many guys who are too similar on the bottom lines. It'd be great to bring more toughness, even if it means giving up a little bit of PK talent.

And don't get me wrong I like that the Wings have guys who will hit and drop the gloves, but it doesn't change that compared to other guys with similar skills, Tootoo was overpaid by Holland.

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So you would stick Tootoo on the 4th line and only pay him 900k. Where would you put Miller,Emmerton and Eaves and how much would you pay each. Because in my eyes and I'm sure many more see Tootoo as bringing really more than any of these players and is getting paid accordingly.

Agreed, Tootoo wasn't signed to be a 4th line guy with 4th line numbers and minutes like Carcillo at 900k...hence the 1.9 million contract. There was obviously some roster plan for him that didn't pan out either due to injuries or decision by Babcock. I'd like to see him play a full season on the Wings with some decent minutes before deciding if 1.9 million was an overpayment.

55fan and hillbillywingsfan like this

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:D I like how the Brunner Contract Talks thread got turned into a Tootoo debate! Is Tootoo the next Fedorov? You know how it always seems that Fedorov got brought up in every thread for a long time? :lol:

Anyhow, regarding Brunner, do we know if he has even gotten any interest from teams out there? I heard the New Jersey rumor, but has anything else come up? I really hope he comes to his senses and just takes another contract from Detroit. I know that would require losing a couple of players (and that is where the Tootoo debate came from I am sure) but if losing Sammy or Emmerton and keeping Brunner is the option, then I will take that.

When it comes down to Tootoo, I definitely believe he has a place on this team. Again, if losing Emmy where the option, then I am all for it. Plus, when it comes to value around the NHL and what type of draft pick or future consideration each one would bring, Emmy has more value. On this team, after Andersson is signed, Emmy is redundant.

I just looked on capgeek and Holland has his work cut out for him. Our updated cap space is ONLY just a tick over $1M...Nyquist and Andersson MUST be signed and I would still like to see Brunner come back. But at the very least Nyquist and Andersson are going to cost us around $3M combined. So, that means another buyout and a trade or waiver for a couple of players. My choices would be Sammy (if possible,) Quincey, Emmerton.

Bottom line for me, I would love to have Brunner back here (for the right price) and wouldn't mind sacrificing the above mentioned to do so...

Edited by LeftWinger

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He fights for one thing. How is that not more than these 3? And thats a big thing that the wings were missing from our team. Like I said before he goes 110% on the ice when he is on the ice. More than I can say about Emmerton for sure. Out of the 3 Miller is the only one that comes sort of close to Tootoo.

I suppose it comes down to opinion. He said "He doesn't bring more, just something different." Fighting is something different, but not necessarily more. Just like (from the opposite side of the discussion) one might say that killing penalties..... or not taking stupid penalties to put the team down a man.... or not going way out of position on a regular basis to make a hit.... or being able to play center... would be bringing "more" than Tootoo brings. And, you might not see that as 'more,' but rather just something 'different.'

That said, I am indifferent on the Tootoo issue. I like him fine because he provides some entertainment value. However, I don't necessarily feel that he helps the team win more than Miller or Eaves. And, he is paid more than Miller and Eaves. Emmerton is a different comparison, but he plays center and is paid even less. I'm fine either way... keep Tootoo or get rid of him. He hasn't really been around long enough for me to associate a sense of loyalty with him. I really still think of him as a Predator.

:D I like how the Brunner Contract Talks thread got turned into a Tootoo debate! Is Tootoo the next Fedorov? You know how it always seems that Fedorov got brought up in every thread for a long time? :lol:

Anyhow, regarding Brunner, do we know if he has even gotten any interest from teams out there? I heard the New Jersey rumor, but has anything else come up? I really hope he comes to his senses and just takes another contract from Detroit. I know that would require losing a couple of players (and that is where the Tootoo debate came from I am sure) but if losing Sammy or Emmerton and keeping Brunner is the option, then I will take that.

When it comes down to Tootoo, I definitely believe he has a place on this team. Again, if losing Emmy where the option, then I am all for it. Plus, when it comes to value around the NHL and what type of draft pick or future consideration each one would bring, Emmy has more value. On this team, after Andersson is signed, Emmy is redundant.

I just looked on capgeek and Holland has his work cut out for him. Our updated cap space is ONLY just a tick over $1M...Nyquist and Andersson MUST be signed and I would still like to see Brunner come back. But at the very least Nyquist and Andersson are going to cost us around $3M combined. So, that means another buyout and a trade or waiver for a couple of players. My choices would be Sammy (if possible,) Quincey, Emmerton.

Bottom line for me, I would love to have Brunner back here (for the right price) and wouldn't mind sacrificing the above mentioned to do so...

If Quincey goes, he'd have to be replaced somehow.

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He doesn't bring more, just something different. And Eaves and Emmerton are both likely gone if everyone else is healthy

He fights for one thing. How is that not more than these 3? And thats a big thing that the wings were missing from our team. Like I said before he goes 110% on the ice when he is on the ice. More than I can say about Emmerton for sure. Out of the 3 Miller is the only one that comes sort of close to Tootoo.

Yup, he fights and hits. The other 3 kill penalties, he doesn't. Eaves and Miller skate better. Emmerton can center a line. All 3 make less. Miller Also hits, outhit Tootoo 81-68 in 2 more games in fact.

I'm not saying Tootoo is bad, and he certainly has a role on the team. He's not a better player though.

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Yup, he fights and hits. The other 3 kill penalties, he doesn't. Eaves and Miller skate better. Emmerton can center a line. All 3 make less. Miller Also hits, outhit Tootoo 81-68 in 2 more games in fact.I'm not saying Tootoo is bad, and he certainly has a role on the team. He's not a better player though.

I will say it. Tootoo is not good. Thats why he sits and watches when it matters. His signing was a bad one. Holland was high last summer. Bertuzzi/Samuelsson/Tootoo/Colo all were bad ideas to begin with that morphed into nightmares. Luckily, injuries gave us a shot to see the light. Holland has woken up and is trying to fix that now.

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If Quincey goes, he'd have to be replaced somehow.

The team already has 7 NHL ready defensemen. Quincey is more than replaceable with Lashoff and the emergence of Kindl as made Q expendable. I know he won't get bought out, but I certainly hope he does not get re-signed next season, unless for some odd reason he grows leaps and bounds and has a career year...if he is here this season, I hope he improves to become that guy we hoped for when we traded for him.

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If Quincey goes, he'd have to be replaced somehow.

The team already has 7 NHL ready defensemen. Quincey is more than replaceable with Lashoff and the emergence of Kindl as made Q expendable. I know he won't get bought out, but I certainly hope he does not get re-signed next season, unless for some odd reason he grows leaps and bounds and has a career year...if he is here this season, I hope he improves to become that guy we hoped for when we traded for him.

Lashoff as the #6 scares me

dropkickshanahans likes this

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@RedWingsFeed: TMR: Red Wings mid-day news: on Cleary, Brunner, retiring numbers and scouting... http://t.co/dnqlMoS9MG via @KuklasKorner #NHL #RedWings

Edit: article confirms Brunner not thinking of returning to Switzerland, I'm ignoring the talk of Cleary returning.

And I'm going on the record and saying that Brunner's agent is a douchenozzle.

Edited by BottleOfSmoke

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Lashoff as the #6 scares me

I know. People really underestimate Quincey. Theres a reason hes our 2nd highest paid dman.

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The team already has 7 NHL ready defensemen. Quincey is more than replaceable with Lashoff and the emergence of Kindl as made Q expendable. I know he won't get bought out, but I certainly hope he does not get re-signed next season, unless for some odd reason he grows leaps and bounds and has a career year...if he is here this season, I hope he improves to become that guy we hoped for when we traded for him.

Kindl has indeed emerged, and Lashoff was an unexpected surprise last year. However, last year far from proves that Lashoff is ready to be anything more than the #7 defenseman. Quincey might be overpaid, but he is a much better option on the ice right now than Lashoff.

Additionally, why would you NOT want 7 NHL ready defensemen on the roster? If you only have 6 and someone gets hurt, you have to play a non-NHL ready D-man.

If this team is trying to make the playoffs and they get rid of Quincey this year, they will need to replace him with someone not named Lashoff that is (at least) a proven top 6 NHL player.

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There is no way 1.9mil for what tootoo brings is over payment. He just needs to be used.

Agreed! 15-18 minutes a night please please please!

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The team already has 7 NHL ready defensemen. Quincey is more than replaceable with Lashoff and the emergence of Kindl as made Q expendable. I know he won't get bought out, but I certainly hope he does not get re-signed next season, unless for some odd reason he grows leaps and bounds and has a career year...if he is here this season, I hope he improves to become that guy we hoped for when we traded for him.

I disagree. I think Lashoff had a great year last year and really helped the team early on when many players were not doing so well. However, as the season went on he really showed some gaps in his game. So I would hate to dump a solid player like Quincey when there are questions.

Now certainly I am hoping that Lashoff made the most of his time down in Grand Rapids and will come back this year way stronger, but we need to be prepared if thats not the case. The defense is still pretty young overall with Kindl, Dekeyser, and Smith. We can definitely use Quinceys experience.

On-topic, has the length of time Brunner has went unsigned changed anyones opinion of his value? Its one thing if the Wings choose not to give him the salary he wants and then someone else snaps him up on July 1, but when all 30 teams have had weeks to sign him and no one has, I think that does put into perspective that his value might not be that high.

The longer this goes, the more I feel like we don't need him back and a young player can take his role on the team.

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I disagree. I think Lashoff had a great year last year and really helped the team early on when many players were not doing so well. However, as the season went on he really showed some gaps in his game. So I would hate to dump a solid player like Quincey when there are questions.

Now certainly I am hoping that Lashoff made the most of his time down in Grand Rapids and will come back this year way stronger, but we need to be prepared if thats not the case. The defense is still pretty young overall with Kindl, Dekeyser, and Smith. We can definitely use Quinceys experience.

On-topic, has the length of time Brunner has went unsigned changed anyones opinion of his value? Its one thing if the Wings choose not to give him the salary he wants and then someone else snaps him up on July 1, but when all 30 teams have had weeks to sign him and no one has, I think that does put into perspective that his value might not be that high.

The longer this goes, the more I feel like we don't need him back and a young player can take his role on the team.

I feel the same on all your points.

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Lashoff started well but by the end of his stay he was God awful. Even when he played relatively well he had several brain cramps that led directly to goals. There is no way in hell a good team should have him pencilled in as a regular.

Brunner is more of a shooter than either Nyquist or Tatar, but at this point I don't see room for another small fairly one dimensional winger.

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I know. People really underestimate Quincey. Theres a reason hes our 2nd highest paid dman.

So hold on here.....Quincey with all of his screw ups in the season. Reading through countless posts of people talking about how he was god awful in the game GDT's more so than anyone else is getting paid just right and you are fine with that but think that tootoo with what he brings is getting too much and needs to be traded? The way I seen Q play there is no way he played to a $3+mil contract. We are talking about the 1 goal and 2 assists 3 pts Quincey right?

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I know. People really underestimate Quincey. Theres a reason hes our 2nd highest paid dman.

Which is even more disappointing considering Quincey played like the fifth best d-man on the team. Only his partner Smith was worse and he was a rookie.

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I know. People really underestimate Quincey. Theres a reason hes our 2nd highest paid dman.

You defend Quincey yet you hate on tootoo and Brunner. Quincey was visibly horrible most of the season and the entire time he was with us in 2011/2012. He is our second highest paid dman cause we expected bigger things from him then we have gotten. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but as of now he has not earned a new contract, even at 2.5 mil

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So hold on here.....Quincey with all of his screw ups in the season. Reading through countless posts of people talking about how he was god awful in the game GDT's more so than anyone else is getting paid just right and you are fine with that but think that tootoo with what he brings is getting too much and needs to be traded? The way I seen Q play there is no way he played to a $3+mil contract. We are talking about the 1 goal and 2 assists 3 pts Quincey right?

Tootoo didnt even play!!! Did you watch the playoffs? Or just the first 10 games of the season?

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You defend Quincey yet you hate on tootoo and Brunner. Quincey was visibly horrible most of the season and the entire time he was with us in 2011/2012. He is our second highest paid dman cause we expected bigger things from him then we have gotten. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but as of now he has not earned a new contract, even at 2.5 mil

He's not up for a new contract. He's our #3, and he's starting to kick some butt with the development of our younger guys. What defense are you watching? We took both the Ducks and Blackhawks to game 7, and our defense looked SPECTACULAR for only having played together for 2-3 months. Tootoo was in the fricking PRESS BOX. Lets have a conversation about Tootoo's playoff performance last year. Oh, wait. We're done. Ok, fine. The year before, then. Oops. We're done, again.

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He's not up for a new contract. He's our #3, and he's starting to kick some butt with the development of our younger guys. What defense are you watching? We took both the Ducks and Blackhawks to game 7, and our defense looked SPECTACULAR for only having played together for 2-3 months. Tootoo was in the fricking PRESS BOX. Lets have a conversation about Tootoo's playoff performance last year. Oh, wait. We're done. Ok, fine. The year before, then. Oops. We're done, again.

Ok then let's have a conversation about Quincey. Turnover after turnover after bad mistake. The only reason he wasn't in the press box was because we had no one to replace him with. You seriously think he is good then I beg you to get your eyes checked because he was abysmal.

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Ok then let's have a conversation about Quincey. Turnover after turnover after bad mistake. The only reason he wasn't in the press box was because we had no one to replace him with. You seriously think he is good then I beg you to get your eyes checked because he was abysmal.

Q is signed for thankfully only 1 more year. Just enough time to fast track Sproul, our futurw #1 dman. People can quote me for future reference if anyone thinks I'm out to lunch...but I'm calling it now.
hillbillywingsfan likes this

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I agree with Axe on Quincey, but not on Tootoo. Quincey started bad and finished strong, but once you're a whipping boy around here (and once you're a hometown hero) there's no changing most people's minds. There was ZERO wrong with Quincey's play down the stretch and into the playoffs. Tootoo is another story in my opinion. He was under utilized. I know Bab's had all sorts of quotes about penalty minutes and this and that. But the truth is, both Boston and Chicago dressed at least one guy who was a penalty machine but still brought enough intangibles that they were worth being on the ice. Hell, Abby had 33 PIMs in 12 games. And he didn't score enough to make that worthwhile. Tootoo isn't Boogaard. He didn't play because Babs likes skill more than he likes aggressiveness (in spite of what he says), and once Babs doesn't like a guy it's awfully hard to change his mind.


Q is signed for thankfully only 1 more year. Just enough time to fast track Sproul, our futurw #1 dman. People can quote me for future reference if anyone thinks I'm out to lunch...but I'm calling it now.

You're not exactly going out on a limb here. He's the highest rated defensive prospect we've got. He's further along the developmental curve mentally, physically, and skill wise than any of our other prospect d-men. Plus, he's projected to have the much higher upside based on his mix of skill and size. It's a little like "gambling" that Mrazek will be a starting goalie, or Mantha a top line forward. The sky would literally have to fall for this to not be true.

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