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Brunner Contract Talks

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Him not signing anywhere "yet" is a good sign.

Or is it?

It seems like most teams are taking their time signing guys at this point, but based on what Holland has already said it doesn't sound like Brunner is a possibility even if the Wings were to clear a roster spot.

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Him not signing anywhere "yet" is a good sign.

Or is it?

I understand the logic, but the reality is that basically nobody is signing now. There was that huge spending orgy on July 5th, likely spurred by the two-day negotiating period, and then teams took a look at their cap situations and have done basically nothing since. Derek Roy (on July 6th) is the only guy to get a contract TOTALING more than $2 million after the first day, and that was just a terrible overpay on a one-year deal.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=25880

Brunner picked a really bad year to "test the market" unless he had clear signals from at least one other team that they were close. Even then, Brunner is more of a "Plan B" type of signing. With limited cap money, I don't think any team's plan for the offseason revolves around a "show me" deal for a guy with that kind of track record.

Still, I never expected it to go this long, and certainly didn't expect a Brunner free agency thread to stretch to 39 pages! Are his opportunities limited to the Devils or Switzerland now? (Or a dramatic reduction in price).

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I think they could just delete the phrase "high risk high reward" from the title. Then it'd be accurate.

I wanted Brunner back, but the more this has played out, the more I understand what's going on here. If Brunner were just a career NHL in his late 20's as a free agent, is that the type of player the Wings would target, irrespective of price? Probably not. I really do think he can be a 20-goal scorer in the NHL, but he if he does it while offering no assistance to the PK and causing costly turnovers, that isn't the type of player the Wings want on their bottom 6.

Everybody compares him to Fabian Brunnstrom, but his career path could be more like Patrick Eaves. Eaves scored 20 goals in 58 games as a rookie with Ottawa in 2005-06. He never evolved into the finisher people hoped he would be, and had to learn how to be a useful defensive player to stay in the league. The difference, of course, is that Detroit has paid him $500k to $1.2 million per year to do that, as opposed to the $3 million+ Brunner wants.

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He needs to fire his agent.


I think you missed the point. Can do and will do are different things or there would be no draft mistakes. Brunner can be a legit 25-30 goal guy. He might not do it though.

I love Brunner on this team as much as the next guy, but Tatar should be a legit 25-30 goal guy.

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Jagr signs with Devils, not sure where Damien will go now...

I was just going to post this.

Its looking more and more like Brunner really let his agent screw him.

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I believe the whole "Cleary has signed & the Wings just need to clear a roster spot/cap room" has already been dispelled.

Edit: Couple of links from the last few days that Kenny is looking at the possibility of moves that could bring Cleary back but that he might be done until camp starts.

http://www.sourcenewspapers.com/articles/2013/07/22/sports/doc51ed440324ea8737640873.txt

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/18/the-detroit-red-wings-have-an-excess-of-nhl-forwards-and-want-to-trade-one-of-them/

http://www.freep.com/article/20130717/SPORTS05/307170033/detroit-red-wings-ken-holland

TL;DR... There's not a done deal on Cleary but it remains a possibility that he might be back.

Edited by ogreslayer

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I believe the whole "Cleary has signed & the Wings just need to clear a roster spot/cap room" has already been dispelled.

Edit: Couple of links from the last few days that Kenny is looking at the possibility of moves that could bring Cleary back but that he might be done until camp starts.

http://www.sourcenewspapers.com/articles/2013/07/22/sports/doc51ed440324ea8737640873.txt

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/18/the-detroit-red-wings-have-an-excess-of-nhl-forwards-and-want-to-trade-one-of-them/

http://www.freep.com/article/20130717/SPORTS05/307170033/detroit-red-wings-ken-holland

TL;DR... There's not a done deal on Cleary but it remains a possibility that he might be back.

The Wings are over the cap already and still need to sign Nyquist and Andersson. I'd say there's virtually no chance that Cleary ends up on this team, as they'd need to clear $7m of salary in order to sign him.

Hockeymom1960 and Rick D like this

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The Wings are over the cap already and still need to sign Nyquist and Andersson. I'd say there's virtually no chance that Cleary ends up on this team, as they'd need to clear $7m of salary in order to sign him.

actually we are under by 1 million...

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The Wings are over the cap already and still need to sign Nyquist and Andersson. I'd say there's virtually no chance that Cleary ends up on this team, as they'd need to clear $7m of salary in order to sign him. actually we are under by 1 million...
And that includes Alfredsson's bonus that can be deferred.
He needs to fire his agent.I think you missed the point. Can do and will do are different things or there would be no draft mistakes. Brunner can be a legit 25-30 goal guy. He might not do it though. I love Brunner on this team as much as the next guy, but Tatar should be a legit 25-30 goal guy.
I think so too, but probably not this season.

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Brunner could save a lot of face right now by signing Kenny's offer and stating that he wants to help Detroit win the cup.

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I believe the whole "Cleary has signed & the Wings just need to clear a roster spot/cap room" has already been dispelled.

Edit: Couple of links from the last few days that Kenny is looking at the possibility of moves that could bring Cleary back but that he might be done until camp starts.

http://www.sourcenewspapers.com/articles/2013/07/22/sports/doc51ed440324ea8737640873.txt

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/18/the-detroit-red-wings-have-an-excess-of-nhl-forwards-and-want-to-trade-one-of-them/

http://www.freep.com/article/20130717/SPORTS05/307170033/detroit-red-wings-ken-holland

TL;DR... There's not a done deal on Cleary but it remains a possibility that he might be back.

Yeah, I read some quotes while on vacay last week that sounded like they were pretty much done with him. At least that's what it sounded like to me. I'm trying to catch up on RW news and am surprised Brunner has not signed anywhere.

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actually we are under by 1 million...

And that includes Alfredsson's bonus that can be deferred.

If all bonuses are deferred, then yes, the team is $1m below the cap. Andersson and Nyquist are likely to garner in the arena of $2m collectively. That'll put the team somewhere in the realm of $1m over the cap. If Holland wants Cleary, he'll then need to clear at least $4m, or preferably $5m if he wants to have any space for injury call-ups.

I think Tootoo is gone, but I'd be fine having Samuelsson sit the bench should that mean we won't have Cleary for three more years.

Edited by Crymson
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If all bonuses are deferred, then yes, the team is $1m below the cap. Andersson and Nyquist are likely to garner in the arena of $2m collectively. That'll put the team somewhere in the realm of $1m over the cap. If Holland wants Cleary, he'll then need to clear at least $4m, or preferably $5m if he wants to have any space for injury call-ups.

I think Tootoo is gone, but I'd be fine having Samuelsson sit the bench should that mean we won't have Cleary for three more years.

Yeah that's also IF he even meets the requirements to get the bonus money. Then of course with deferment we are a million under

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It just hit me again how colossally insane it was to sign Samuelsson at $3 million a season. I honestly don't remember being angry about it then, as I haven't really been surprised by much the last couple years with Holland. It was just a matter of, "Oh, of course he signed Sameuelsson for $3 million a season!" And you know, I'll defend him in some ways more than some will, at least in terms of his past performance. He came up clutch for us on more than a few occasions. But goodnight, It's unbelievable how bad that deal looks right now.

Like Brunner or not, it'd be better to be able to gamble on him for another year than deal with Sammy, who has and will likely continue to be captain of the press box.

I'd rather have Cleary at $3 million than Sammy, and that's saying so, so, so, so, so much.

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Yeah that's also IF he even meets the requirements to get the bonus money. Then of course with deferment we are a million under

For this season, the team is currently one million under the cap. Whether the gets his bonuses or not will not pertain to this season's cap.

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I'd rather have Cleary at $3 million than Sammy, and that's saying so, so, so, so, so much.

Speaking as someone who was once a huge fan of Cleary, I'd rather have one more year of Samuelsson than three more of Cleary.

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It just hit me again how colossally insane it was to sign Samuelsson at $3 million a season. I honestly don't remember being angry about it then, as I haven't really been surprised by much the last couple years with Holland. It was just a matter of, "Oh, of course he signed Sameuelsson for $3 million a season!" And you know, I'll defend him in some ways more than some will, at least in terms of his past performance. He came up clutch for us on more than a few occasions. But goodnight, It's unbelievable how bad that deal looks right now.

Like Brunner or not, it'd be better to be able to gamble on him for another year than deal with Sammy, who has and will likely continue to be captain of the press box.

I'd rather have Cleary at $3 million than Sammy, and that's saying so, so, so, so, so much.

Everyone feels that way because he didn't do anything last year. But, there was no way to predict all of the injuries Samuelsson had. It might look a little bit different if he had played. Maybe he would have had 25-30 points in 48 games last season, if healthy.

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It just hit me again how colossally insane it was to sign Samuelsson at $3 million a season. I honestly don't remember being angry about it then, as I haven't really been surprised by much the last couple years with Holland. It was just a matter of, "Oh, of course he signed Sameuelsson for $3 million a season!" And you know, I'll defend him in some ways more than some will, at least in terms of his past performance. He came up clutch for us on more than a few occasions. But goodnight, It's unbelievable how bad that deal looks right now.

Like Brunner or not, it'd be better to be able to gamble on him for another year than deal with Sammy, who has and will likely continue to be captain of the press box.

I'd rather have Cleary at $3 million than Sammy, and that's saying so, so, so, so, so much.

I certainly DO remember being angry about it then, but it's not like I predicted this degree of injury and uselessness either. I just felt that his effectiveness had declined in Vancouver (after a decent first year) and he's badly overvalued as a right-handed shot on the power play. Unfortunately, you don't have access to all of that information at the time you make the deals. The team was reeling from a summer where it was expected we would get at least one of Parise, Suter, or Semin, and ended up with nobody. We didn't know if Brunner would be NHL-worthy, and more importantly, we didn't know if we could depend on Nyquist, Tatar, Emmerton, and Andersson to the extent that we did. I would still have preferred that risk over signing a moderate risk, low reward deal for Sammy.

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I bitched about Holland all of last summer. This summer, he's turned it around. F- to A-. If he wiggles Sammy and Tootoo out of the cap amount somehow, A+.

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It just hit me again how colossally insane it was to sign Samuelsson at $3 million a season. I honestly don't remember being angry about it then, as I haven't really been surprised by much the last couple years with Holland. It was just a matter of, "Oh, of course he signed Sameuelsson for $3 million a season!" And you know, I'll defend him in some ways more than some will, at least in terms of his past performance. He came up clutch for us on more than a few occasions. But goodnight, It's unbelievable how bad that deal looks right now.

Like Brunner or not, it'd be better to be able to gamble on him for another year than deal with Sammy, who has and will likely continue to be captain of the press box.

I'd rather have Cleary at $3 million than Sammy, and that's saying so, so, so, so, so much.

Everyone feels that way because he didn't do anything last year. But, there was no way to predict all of the injuries Samuelsson had. It might look a little bit different if he had played. Maybe he would have had 25-30 points in 48 games last season, if healthy.

The 28 points he had with Florida I'd a good estimate of what he could have been expected to do. The biggest ***** I heard was that he was a retread. Another guy just like him would have been OK, bit because they had him before, it was a bad deal.

Personally, I wasn't thrilled about it but there weren't really any better options. Any guy they bring in might get hurt, that doesn't mean Holland did a bad job. It's just part of sports.

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